Tryptamines [DMT Subthread] N,N-DMT vs. 5-MeO-DMT

[patitafon]

I haven't smoked DMT, but Ayahuasca had absolutely nothing to do with 5-MeO-DMT... it was as if they belonged to different families of drugs.

exacly

i always experienced strong nausea and lung pain when i've smoked 5-meo-dmt. adverse effect always overwhelmed psychodelic effect. I also never experienced visuals after 5-meo.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I've experimented with 5-methoxy DMT in the past and eventually had an episode of having the shit well and truely scared out of me (trying it via IM) - enough that I never want it again. DMT on the other hand has given me some frights, but has never had me utter,"fuck this, never again" and has actually produced moments of sublime pleasure & insight that were very valuable

It does seem that my body simply does not get on at all well with any 5-methoxytryptamine derivative, the worst (here he goes again!!) being 5-MeO DMT for the terror and 5-MeO AMT for the most disgusting drug with psychedelic activity ever encountered (there are plenty examples of my tale of the horror of 5-MeO AMT - just search for 'opening the sluice gates at both ends'!)

 

[Jabberwocky]

just to counter the not so positive comments about 5-meo-dmt, i have to remark that for some people, 5-meo is highly more valuable than smoked dmt

although it's only a detail, personally i also get beautiful visuals on 5-meo (exactly the same every time)

do you consider those full doses?

because on a breakthrough, you certainly shouldn't be able to use your body, or see it or be aware that you have a body

if you haven't had a complete breakthrough, definitely go for it
breakthrough effects are a world apart from lower doses

the difference is much bigger than with dmt, which has a more progressive augmentation of the effects

Hey Vegan, this phase of the trip (the integration phase) comes after the peak effects (which for me last very short, maybe 5 minutes). I can quickly come out of the ego loss stage and I always (with 5-meo-dmt) grasp onto the spiritual side of my personality first. Which results in spiritual-religious behavior.

But, you're right, there will be a period of any breakthrough dose on 5-meo-DMT where you are flat on your back not aware that you are any longer an entity apart from the rest of reality (enlightenment!).

With 5-meo-DMT I actually prefer smoking 2-3mg consistently over the course of an hour or so (taking a puff every 5-10mins). This works me into an 'ayahuacsa' type state with visionary powers not comparable to much of anything else.

 

[foundationx4]

oh I've found that one can use DMT recreationally but it is very hard to use 5-meo-dmt recreationally. YMMV, but whenever I smoke 5-meo-DMT I am on my hands and knees begging or chanting to some God out there. It is a very spiritual (religious!) molecule for me, it brings up a lot of old spiritual habits (prostrating, chanting, mudras).

In fact, one of my coolest 5-meo-DMT trips was spent sitting in lotus position and 'turning the wheel' with my hand movements (mudras). Each hand movement held such significance to me...it was like I was supporting the world with my hands).

LOL. sorry but this sounds hillarious.

 

[Jabberwocky]

really? Well I'm glad I could make you laugh

If you find that hilarious, then you also might find stories I have of vomiting and pissing on myself peaking on tryptamine hallucinogens comical

ahhh, psychedelics are so weird, the craziness that ensues from dosing big on them is priceless, don't you think!?

peace and love,
samadhi

 

[IGNVS]

story time story time!!

 

[vegan]

Hey Vegan, this phase of the trip (the integration phase) comes after the peak effects (which for me last very short, maybe 5 minutes)

ok ok. i understand now

 

[psykoman]

i have tried 5-meo-dmt and i was sick the first time i took it and the effects were very intence i have allways wanted to try n-n-DMT but cant source it for the life of me

been serching for a reliable source of crystal for years think ill just make it.

can get every other chemical out there but that n-n-DMT is sure hard to find!

off topic but 1 of my fav chems is 4-aco-dmt

 

[MagickalKat777]

Honestly...

I have only had both once...

But I seem to remember 5-MeO-DMT being more pleasurable - and I distinctly remember watching the room turn black and white and shatter like shards of glass which fell to the ground leaving me in a void but I don't remember much more of the trip - and when I came back, I saw some cool fractal patterns for another good ten minutes. I am pretty sure that my friend gave me an overdose for a first time 5-MeO-DMT experience which is why I don't remember much of it but on the same note, it didn't have the nasty side effects DMT had and I felt like something spiritually profound had happened while I was gone...

With DMT, my friend once again loaded up god knows how much in the pipe, I took a huge hit off of it, and the chrysanthemum pattern started but at the same time my heart rate started speeding so fast I was sure I was having a heart attack and then the sounds in my ears... It was like a rocketship/explosion/someone crinkling paper - it was loud and it hurt - and then all I remember from it was that there were these beings - I was staring at myself from a third person perspective and these beings would poke their "fingers" into my head and each one triggered a different thought complex. It was as if they were reprogramming my brain... and then I came to, my heart still pounding and I was freaked out for another half hour. I seriously didn't realize I broke through, I thought I had a heart attack and died!

Has anyone else had this experience? I've bashed 5-MeO-DMT a lot but in thinking about it, I actually liked the total destruction and bliss of 5-MeO-DMT much more than the "what the fuck are you beings doing to me" feeling of DMT...

 

[Big)Sky]

Honestly...

I have only had both once...

But I seem to remember 5-MeO-DMT being more pleasurable - and I distinctly remember watching the room turn black and white and shatter like shards of glass which fell to the ground leaving me in a void but I don't remember much more of the trip - and when I came back, I saw some cool fractal patterns for another good ten minutes. I am pretty sure that my friend gave me an overdose for a first time 5-MeO-DMT experience which is why I don't remember much of it but on the same note, it didn't have the nasty side effects DMT had and I felt like something spiritually profound had happened while I was gone...

Has anyone else had this experience? I've bashed 5-MeO-DMT a lot but in thinking about it, I actually liked the total destruction and bliss of 5-MeO-DMT much more than the "what the fuck are you beings doing to me" feeling of DMT...

Ive too only smoked 5-meo-DMt once, and i had a much similar experience as you with the room turning black. When i took my hit everything turned very dark, then exploded with light and i got the sence of acceptance from every ounce of energy in the room. It felt like i was being accepted into a tribe. The vibrations got so loud i could of swore there were bongo drums playing.

I feel like it cuts right the the chase with spiritual advancement without the feeling of being shot out of a hyperspace cannon.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Okay so I'm not the only one who experienced this.

Honestly after thinking about it, I think I may just get some 5-MeO and leave the DMT alone... The effect it had on my heart was just wayyyyyyy too much to handle.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

DMT is far superior to 5-MEO-DMT, for me.

All I seem to get from 5-MEO-DMT is a feeling of panic because i can not catch my breath. Its as if smoking 5-MEO-DMT takes all the energy out of my body to the point where I am unable to move, almost like an episode of sleep paralisys, I felt that with 5-MEO , the high was actually in coming back to normal. The effects wearing off was the only positive effect of the experience, there was nothing psychedelic at all going on either. it was as If I smoked the opposite of a xanax bar, while completely exhausted

DMT on the other hand, pure greatness , everytime, even the frightening experiences are great (for me frightening experiences are the ones where halfway through smoking it I decide that I didnt really want to blast off, and then I am stuck in this inbetween world.... for about 2 minutes, then I remember that It will wear off soon so I should just enjoy it.

I will probably continue to use DMT periodically for the rest of my life. 5-MEO-DMT, you couldnt PAY ME to smoke it again.

 

[MagickalKat777]

^^ Maybe you're smoking too much? 5-MeO-DMT is a potent as hell chemical.

 

[The Hebrew Hammer]

I dont think im smoking too much, as I have smoked less than a few mg , and never any more than that... (I think I am just one of the people that doesnt get any positive psychedelia out of 5-meo-DMT, which seems to be fairly common.)

 

[Solipsis]

edit: well I posted the following in the DMT extraction thread about a question regarding this comparison but I think this belongs here in this thread. I'll just leave links in the other thread.

Yes the difference reminds me of the difference between R-ketamine and S-ketamine, it's funny how both sets of compounds complement each other like yin yang.

How I compare N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, and my theory about the way DMT might work.

Both can get quite physical for me at some times but not that much at other times. When it's strong it's like they say as if an elephant is sitting on my chest. Like experiencing extreme G forces, no wonder the sensation is likened to being shot away strapped to a rocket especially since sometimes it can seem like I am moving at incredible neckbraking velocity.
But considering visuals: 5-MeO-DMT is atypically visual in the way that 5-MeO-MiPT was for me as well: things don't start moving in a funny way, usually, and colors do not really change the way psychedelics usually do for me... rather colors stop being colors but they turn into gradients of energy. All the energy looks basically the same, like beautiful golden light I guess but more like a direct experience of what energy is than just a model that you use in your head. So the gradients are different like I can see that different wavelength light is of different energy omission. The whole thing is a little like a lava lamp where none of the liquids/lava fractions have colors but they do have different densities and only mix partially. You can see something like that if you have a GHB solution and you pour water in. The mental state of 5-MeO-DMT is extreme, emotionally and thematically things all seem to be related to the pure archetypes. Meaning things like heaven and hell, not with any real religious significance in a traditional or cultural way, just the unadultered idea that things are perfect or things are incredibly horrible. Also it is not hard to slip past that duality and feel 'just being'.
I vividly recall one of the first times I took 5-MeO-DMT when it was as if I stepped through a portal into another dimension, which looked exactly the same and there was basically no empirical or explainable reason to say that it was any different than the normal dimension but it felt like a heavenly version of it. Nothing more and nothing less.

DMT

N,N-DMT on the other hand is very visual, as if it triggers my visual databanks to do a memory dump though more interactive than that like imagination coming to life, but imagination on a mostly unconscious level. It can certainly have archetypical elements but for me they tend to often stay in the conceptual realm. Relating to things and ideas that I know and expanding right there on the frontier. The imagery to me is like the impossible made possible. The feeling is like being a stupefied child, forgetting (how to) breathe is common - haha it literally takes my breath away.
Usually the atmosphere is like a fairytale or funhouse, visit the website DMT Nexus and check the forum, at the top there is one of the best style impressions I know... The creatures or entities were to me as often described: playful and cheerful, attentive, compassionate / empathetic, they also had an element of a jester or joker - they seemed to hold in their hands the mysteries of the universe and the power of creation. My idea about this is that they are fractured elements of your own consciousness than span beyond what we normally consider to be the personality, I believe that the entities represent metaprograms ranging from the 'operators' of what are relatively vivid/conscious thought processes to very old instinctual resultants of our own evolution. An analogy might be that we are computers comprised of not only a multi-core machine but more like a distributed network. But that it is not a simple fractal 'hierarchy' or pattern but every node is different and specialized and may have an unique way of approaching stored data.

In somewhat layman terms of neuropharmacology my best guess is that they (the metaprograms) are patterns of brain activity that encode a self-ordering system. I don't think it is something we have 'access' to, except maybe some savants who may have an extraordinary interface with such symbol-based programs. Apparently when some parts of brain function are left uninhibited there can be cross-chatter that allows synaesthesia-like phenomena to do their magic while this may come at the price of another normal part of brain programming. I think that if you take DMT there might be a new carrier wave interacting with regular brain activity that allows similar cross-chatter and interfacing that is normally impossible. IMO it corresponds with the sensation of unlocking the power of the mind (and talking about all the baggage, all the latent information that we inherited - if you include that as well maybe that is what we might call the soul). IIRC, DMT has extraordinary activity in the visual (or general sensory) center of the brain which perhaps in a way catalyzes the abilities of your imagination to the point where all previously mentioned inter-activity could become projected. A sort of central theater... Perhaps the post-central gyrus where the bulk of thalamocortical data is integrated, who knows, this and similar central areas may act as the core receiver - the homunculus could play a role as the 'observer' of the complex experience in attempt to make coherence and sense of all the activity. I also find it suspicious that part of proprioception is also thought to be regulated here and that I for example had an experience where I thought I felt spirits touching my skin causing paraesthesia - I saw them, but it felt like I saw this in an unconventional way, that it was not my eyes sending the information. This fits with my ideas of overflowing activity and abnormal interfacing of consciousness programs.

To some, the entities are perceived as creatures of form, from weird little critters to very alien forms to antropomorphic beings but they are not called self-transforming machine elves for nothing (by McKenna) - I have certainly watched them change into objects or concepts but also saw entities emerge from the 'scenery'. If you ask me the boundary between animate and inanimate is quite vague or they can even be irrelevant / inappropriate terms when it comes to the dimension of the mind. The mechanisms that serve a role trying to make sense of information incorporate programs such as facial recognition or life-form recognition. We have that hard-wired.
So what we experience as entities is IMO probably a projection of our 'entity recognition' program onto other programs, metaprograms and random information that might be flying around, either conjured by the imagination that generates a virtual reality from whatever it can (while automatically trying to stay coherent) or actual sensory data we are receiving. And it makes sense to me that lots of people have described communicating telepathically with the entities. I think that the reason it feels like the impossible becoming possible is because a virtually infinite number of forms of information are "inappropriately" rushing into the integrating switchboard and it constantly yields a resulting sensation of 'does not compute'... before the next stream of boundless experience is presented.
All the while we might sit or lay there in a sort of catatonic state, overwhelmed by the DMT flash. The entities may provide us with priceless lessons and information, that we realize based on information embedded deep within us that is normally protected behind security mechanisms. I have had astonishing contact in which wisdom was bestowed upon me that was only possible to be carried through the channels I have described, I'd call it magical but not in a supernatural way. I think that we all have such a treasure cove deep within ourselves.
A few of the most powerful messages I received were that separation is an illusion and what is fundamental to everything is energy, seen from such a profound perspective the energy felt synonymous with love and to rely heavily on connection, positive connection as is felt with compassion. Another powerful message was that the comfort or better said consolation I needed when my young niece suddenly died seemed to resonate throughout the universe and reverberate back to me, so that I could hug myself and feel some healing. In other trips I overcame the fear of my own death and saw how I can embrace it as part of the cycle of life and death. And the last message I want to tell you about was that I remember having a vision of some kind of universal key, a interpretation or visual simulation of something I later recognized in a documentary as being a way to represent a mathematical phenomenon known as an E8 group.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

there should be homogeneous nomenclature in the thread title, i.e. either call it "DMT vs. 5-MeO-DMT" or "N,N-DMT vs. 5-MeO-N,N-DMT" thread. the way it is written now leads people to the wrong assumption that "N,N-" is the opposite of "5-MeO-" in some way.

 

[Solipsis]

I disagree. Technically you are absolutely right of course, but when we are keeping in mind all users that do not know chemistry or its nomenclature, is it not harmless simplification to in a way pretend that that is the case: that they are opposites? N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are the two most common in the 'DMT family', ignoring the 4-substituted ones for now since they are used quite differently (usually not smoked, not a short duration). For some reason occasionally people may call 5-MeO-DMT "DMT", for example when it is the only simple dialkyltryptamine they have ever used and they actually mean "the DMT" as in "the compound belonging to the family of DMT analogues". That is why I think it is best that whenever N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are involved, the N,N is used to confirm that the unsubstituted DMT is meant. This works because people don't say 5-MeO-N,N-DMT often at all, virtually never.
So I'd rather keep it clear which compound is meant even if that means risking that people make the wrong assumption about 5-MeO-DMT not having the methyls on N,N. That is hardly a functional fact.

Perhaps it's a matter of personal opinion but after having had discussions with people about the two compounds I quickly grew tired of getting miscommunication or confusion.
Including 5-MeO-N,N-DMT in the title is also not something I'd like to do because even with a chem background it confuses me for a fraction of a second and reminds me too much of a formula like 2,N,N-TMT. Recognition is better IMO.

You're welcome to explain your own opinion about this but please consider more than perfect use of nomenclature, this is not a scientific article. Clarity for novices is important.

 

[swilow]

there should be homogeneous nomenclature in the thread title, i.e. either call it "DMT vs. 5-MeO-DMT" or "N,N-DMT vs. 5-MeO-N,N-DMT" thread. the way it is written now leads people to the wrong assumption that "N,N-" is the opposite of "5-MeO-" in some way.

I think the main reason people compare the two is simply the -DMT part. They are two substances, gnerally smoked, that have brief, extremely intense effects. Because they have similar letters in name, are often found together in nature and because they are often used in similar ways, people get mixed up or assume the two chemicals are related in more then name.

When I think of DMT, I get a beautiful wistful sensation; DMT seems gentle and comfortable. 5-MeO-DMT makes me think about fire and chaos.

 

[Chemical Wizard]

I almost smoked 5-meo-DMT once by accident that my friend was loading into a pipe. He showed up to my place a few days ago and said he "had some DMT". A few days later,I literally was about to put the mouthpiece on my lips and was holding the lighter and just quickly thought to ask "this *IS* just normal n,n-DMT and not 5-meo-DMT right ???".

"oh yeah it's 5-meo-DMT" he says. I had to freak out a little bit, explain why that's not cool, and later had a similar discussion about how it's appropriate to always refer to 5-meo-DMT as "5-meo-DMT" and we always call normal DMT just "n,n".

It's definitely a good system to have in place for all those psychonaut circles that use both compounds with any kind of regularity.

And for me, I find n,n-DMT to be more peaceful and less forceful, whereas 5-meo-DMT is more uncomfortable mentally and physically, but at the same time seems deeper.

Every time I smoke n,n-DMT it's euphoric and really trippy, but it's kind of "useless" feeling. I did see some DMT entities last time I smoked n,n-DMT. 5-meo-DMT seems more mentally rewarding, and I feel like the events occuring in my mind during a 5-meo-DMT just carry more significance with them as compared to what's going through my mind on n,n-DMT. I've explored n,n-DMT significantly more times than 5-meo-DMT, I think due to the fact that I am much more intimidated by 5-meo-DMT.

 

[deadich]

Ive been reading and contrasting DMT vs 5-MeO-DMT for quite some time now and I am really interested in experiencing one or the other. The meo-DMT reports are unduly mixed, ranging anywhere from positive glowing experiences to chemical hell. There seems to be more negative reports stemming from meo-DMT.

5meodmt is way more potent than dmt, i think that is one of the major reasons why its more common to find negative reports on it. its so easy to take a little too much.