Ethnobotanicals [DMT Extraction Subthread] Phalaris Grass

[brachystachys]

thanks for your opinion morninggloryseed, but i disagree on some things. first, let me address what you said:

Psychedelics can't save the world, nor can they change anyone.

For thousands of years, human interaction with entheogens and dreaming have heavily influenced religions, shamanism, and philosophies. I don't know that saving is what the world needs, as you suggested. I do think that any tool that increases access to inisghtful thought is useful though, and psychedelics certainly can and do change people through such experiences.

Change comes from within...and people have to want to change.

yes i agree, and i hope you didn't assume that i was advocating pushing any substance on people to exert mind control. i think the desire for change is already there, and i think those who feel it often seek out tools to explore such potentials.

Anyone remember the 60s? Has anything really changed?

yes, of course. we can often learn much more from failures than we do from successes.

 

[squerll]

Your thread started makes it seem like people can go cut a kilo of polaris and easily extract 10 to 15 grams of pure n,nDMT which I just don’t believe at all. I think they will get the average pile of toxic goo that has the potential of shutting down their respitory system.
Your claim of:
“Tryptamine concentrations can be at least 2 to 3 times that of Mimosa hostilis”
Is a very big claim can you come up with any facts and proof of this?

And the claim of Also,” juicing grass is much easier than harvesting, stripping, grinding,and boiling root bark. The possibilities are incredible.”
Seems a bit far-fetched. All the phalaris extractions I have heard about the people claimed the defatting and the extraction was a major pain in the ass with no returns.

I am also a little suspicious of your tactics for search engine ranking with brachystachys

I am all for the research on sources of DMT but I think your claims are misleading and unrealistic.

From any reliable studies so far the poliris grasses seem to be complete failures in yielding useable n,nDMT.

Maybe I’m wrong about your intentions. Usually in the realm of ethobotanical research when someone wants to promote the research of a plant spices to his fellow colleges he waits until he has grown enough starters or seeds to pass around and announces his discoveries and offers to send out starters or seeds.
If your intentions are as noble as that are you willing to give out some free starter plants? To those who wish to further the research and development of the polaris grass. Maybe for the donation that will cover shipping.

ok, i feel compelled to respond to this, as i am this "who ever" you're referring to. let me set the record straight. your guess is 100% wrong.

do i expect to gain from the cultivation of this species? yes, but not in the way you are assuming. you see, i believe humanity is in a desparate situation. i also believe this certain molecule can help us. now...if this molecule could be accessible to a larger section of the population by the research into new plant species, that would be a good thing.

i hope several people will get this species established in their gardens and then give seeds away for free to others. to be honest, i would say that a final verdict on the reliability of this species is still not reached, but the research is looking more and more valid as additional people work with p. brachystachys.

i do appreciate all the discussion, by the way. it is useful.

 

[brachystachys]

great points, squerll.

in fact, looking back on my original post, i honestly think it looks like a selling line myself. i was assuming that many people had never heard of this species, so i tried to succinctly provide a summary of the most current reports, perhaps to trigger some excitement that would promote further investigation of this species.

as for facts and evidence, i acknowledge that it is severly lacking for this species. the best reference to scientific research i've located is in Trout's book: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ayahuasca_apa/aya_sec3_part2_phalaris_strains.shtml
i don't know where the commonly stated figure of up to 3% concentration came from, but, i have read of at least four bioassays from trustworthy posters who have estimated from 1.5 to 2.0% concentration in their specimens.
it's just a start. i know it's not definitive proof by a long shot.


I'm not sure what you meant about my search engine ranking tactics. I posted to, I believe it was 7 forums. That's what I did. I wanted to get the info that I'd seen lurking around the net out there, so that we could prove or debunk the claims.

From any reliable studies so far the poliris grasses seem to be complete failures in yielding useable n,nDMT.

...but they were working with arundinacea and aquatica. i have not seen any reports of failure with brachystachys.

lastly, i do not have enough seeds at this point to share with others, nor do i have an extensive amount of research under my belt to be of that caliber to provide such data. i do hope that anyone who has a self-sufficent population of this species will provide others with seeds for free, as i will do myself when i have an excess.

 

[Youkai]

Someone post a practical phlaris extraction and I will spread the word, till then it is just a carrier of limited use. Iv never heard of ANYONE extracting anything useful from grass, meaning NO CRYSTALS!


I suggest anyone who uses MHRB to also order seeds, I know there will be hudnreds of trees ready to be harvested in 5-6 years. This is more practical then trying to extract from grass.



oh and MGS, DMT is the key to save humanity, we will all invert inwords and hear the true calling of GOD... and then implode into a rainbow circus/carnival. YAY!!!!!!!!





ALSO, on the topic of DMT carriers, anyone ever noticed how dried seman looks like dried DMT goo? anyone want to take a stab at smokingthere own dried seman? what about dried cat piss? looks alot like DMT... and even kinda smells like it!!!

 

[brachystachys]

Iv never heard of ANYONE extracting anything useful from grass, meaning NO CRYSTALS!

Look at posts by 'Ferdinand' and 'PhalarisOld' on Edot. Now at least you've gone from not ANYONE to 2.

I suggest anyone who uses MHRB to also order seeds, I know there will be hudnreds of trees ready to be harvested in 5-6 years. This is more practical then trying to extract from grass.

...unless you live outside of the tropics or don't have a massive greenhouse, which is let's see, just about everyone here almost.

oh and MGS, DMT is the key to save humanity, we will all invert inwords and hear the true calling of GOD... and then implode into a rainbow circus/carnival. YAY!!!!!!!!

ALSO, on the topic of DMT carriers, anyone ever noticed how dried seman looks like dried DMT goo? anyone want to take a stab at smokingthere own dried seman? what about dried cat piss? looks alot like DMT... and even kinda smells like it!!!

On other forums, I've heard a lot of people talk shit about the types of posters that hang out at Bluelight. I think it's posts like this that start such reputations.

 

[Youkai]

Look at posts by 'Ferdinand' and 'PhalarisOld' on Edot. Now at least you've gone from not ANYONE to 2.



...unless you live outside of the tropics or don't have a massive greenhouse, which is let's see, just about everyone here almost.



On other forums, I've heard a lot of people talk shit about the types of posters that hang out at Bluelight. I think it's posts like this that start such reputations.

comeon, you never ejaculated on mirror and thought "damn, that looks liek unpure DMT!!!" as it dried?

You my friend have not lived!



and I dont visit edot, will have to check it out! dont look at my post in this thread and think you know me though, still waters run deep.

 

[IGNVS]

Look at posts by 'Ferdinand' and 'PhalarisOld' on Edot. Now at least you've gone from not ANYONE to 2.



...unless you live outside of the tropics or don't have a massive greenhouse, which is let's see, just about everyone here almost.



On other forums, I've heard a lot of people talk shit about the types of posters that hang out at Bluelight. I think it's posts like this that start such reputations.

8)



so dmt is going to save humanity, but a reputation on some other board is important?

do you need a hug?

 

[brachystachys]

no, and honestly i didn't want this thread to take the detour that it has. i took a few sarcastic posts in stride, but i felt pretty insulted by the thing about smoking dried semen and cat piss because it looks like dmt.

for the record, i don't agree with the condescending reputation, b/c i've seen a lot of useful posts on Bluelight. i like it here.

now, back to the topic at hand...

please post any experience you have with Phalaris brachystachys, as well as successes and failures with any Phalaris species, etc.

 

[melange]

the only species i have ever heard anyone getting dmt from is phalaris aquatica

 

[melange]

http://peyote.com/jonstef/phalaris.htm

 

[brachystachys]

yeah, 'PhalarisOld' on Edot was working with Aquatica when he successfully retrieved crystals. unfortunately he found their to be a considerable amount of negative side effects, probably from the presence of Bufotenin and Gramine. nontheless, he seemed to think it was worth it. and perhaps other strains of Aquatica will not have such a heavy presenece of those undesireables. he was working with wild grass in Canada i believe.

Trout's book describes researcher's findings in various Aquatica specimens. aquatica AQ-1 was tested and found to have in excess of 1%. http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ayahuasca_apa/aya_sec3_part2_phalaris_strains.shtml

 

[Youkai]

the only species i have ever heard anyone getting dmt from is phalaris aquatica

there is a glorious shrub that grows in middle america that contains up to 1% DMT.

 

[Heyoka]

there is a glorious shrub that grows in middle america that contains up to 1% DMT.

Please, do tell! Unless you're speaking of desmanthus which is far from 1%. Or are you speaking of M. Hostilis?


It's important to keep this discussion in perspective. We're speaking of a species that has had very promising reports of strong effects from small doses. The reports are such that this plant deserves further investigation and skepticism based on reports of other species of phalaris only serve to undermine the process of discovering the true value of Phalaris Brachystachys.

This plant may turn out to be worthless as a source of dmt crystal and yield only goo but if we get alota goo that's rich in dmt from a small quantity of easy to grow plant material then we've got an immensly valuable anahuasca admixture. In this case, getting crystal would be a matter of nailing down the purification. Many folks find the oral dmt/maoi experience to be a much more valuable tool for personal exploration and change than vaporized dmt. To each his own I suppose.

Also, don't forget that MHRB is a money maker for alot of vendors and if PB is found to be a reasonable alternative that can be easily grown, it will have a negative effect on MHRB sales. I only say this to point out that if we want to ascribe ulterior motives to Brachystachys posts, we can easily do the same to the detractors posts.

I don't believe Brachystachys is trying to sell anything and I'm very glad that he so effectively brought some attention to Phalaris Brachystachys. This plant has sort of sat unnoticed despite Samorini's findings and I've been curious for some time.

Ultimately, let's keep our fingers crossed and check out this plant and once the dust has settled we will KNOW wether this plant is worthwhile or not! Until then I think that skepticism based on other phalaris is really just a waste of bandwidth.

My bet is that PB will turn out to be a winner.

 

[Recept]

^ That may very well be, but IMHO there is disturbingly little actual data on this species. It might turn out to contain too much gramine to be used orally, and useless (or at least uncomfortable enough to use) for extractions/smoking. M. hostilis really is a well established high-yielding, easy-to-extract-from source of DMT, so unless more actual data comes in regarding the contents of P. brachystachys, I don't really see this one catching wind any time soon.

 

[brachystachys]

i appreciate heyoka's perspective on the issue. he said a lot of the things i was thinkng myself.

Recept - the lack of data is exactly the reason we need to look into this species, and not a reason to say, "well, not enough people have come along and proven it yet, so the hell with it". This molecule isn't exclusive to M.H., and the greater diversity of plant sources we can find, the better we'll all be. If you're content with the status quo, then by all means, but i can tell you there are folks out there actively pursuing new species to ensure your onging and permanent accessibility to the spirit molecule. I find that inspiring.

And, by the way, Appleseed, DeKorne, and Festi & Samorini are respected researchers in this field. To say there is not enough data or evidence out there to at least look into this species is to deny their contributions.

 

[Recept]

I'm talking of empirical data not anecdotal. I for one won't be ingesting a plant that possibly contains an unknown amount of a serious toxin. Will you?

I'm interested in this species as well, but so far the Phalaris spp. have been nothing but trouble. I'm just saying, that so far I see no reason to dump M. hostilis as a reliable source for DMT. If it was demonstrated, that there are no significant amounts of gramine in P. brachystachys, I would be all for exploring possible extraction teks to obtain DMT from this plant.

Edit: missed the last part of your post - who are these persons whose contributions you are talking about? Do you have any references to their work? If they have published actual data regarding the alkaloid content of these species, I'll take back what I said. I was unable to find any actual publications on P. brachystachys when I looked for it before, I'll be glad to admit if I wasn't thorough enough.

Edit2: I'm finding bits and pieces from here and there about these researches re: the Phalaris genus in general, but not much on this specific species. Do you have any references to point me in the right direction? I don't have a lot of time to dig deep at the moment, but will look into this for sure later.

 

[brachystachys]

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ayahuasca_apa/aya_sec3_part2_phalaris_strains.shtml

Trout makes very brief reference to their findings in his book. P. brachystachys is towards the bottom.

This is about as much info as I've been able to locate thus far.

 

[Recept]

^ Yeah, I saw that too. I was kinda hoping for more data; one reference point is hardly enough evidence to reach any sort of conclusion.

In that reference, they mention 5-MeO-DMT also being present in some strains - that certainly complicates things and makes extraction a requirement if one is after a solid DMT trip. Also, I'm still worried about gramine content. Gramine has been found to be present in several Phalaris species and strains, if P. bracystachys would prove to be different in that aspect it would be great.

Also, any reports on successful (or otherwise) attempts at extracting the DMT from the plant material? As far as I understand, this appears to be a great obstacle in using Phalaris spp. as a source of DMT, and a serious advantage towards using M. hostilis instead.

 

[brachystachys]

I agree with everything you just said. Let me be clear, that I'm not claiming conclusive evidence on the reliability and usability of P. brachystachys, although I will strongly state that what little research and bioassay has been done on it, appears to be very promising...promising of exactly what, and how easily repeatable the results are, well that requires further study.

Of course, lab analysis would be ideal, but I would assume incremental bioassay testing to be relatively safe.

And, as a few posters have mentioned MHRB. I don't think you'll find anyone who would deny that it's currently the most easily obtainable and useable source material. I just think it's a mistake to get dependent on any one plant source, when this molecule is so widely scattered among various plant species, some of which I'm sure have yet to be detected.

Perhaps as more folks get the opportunity to envision the spirit molecule (thanks to yes, MHRB), they will see for themselves the worthiness of expanding our knowlege of various source plants.

 

[Ptah]

I just think it's a mistake to get dependent on any one plant source

Dependent? MHRB is cheap, easily obtained and it works. Making a batch of DMT that will last forever is actually affordable for someone with a normal job.

I don't really understand why you're promoting P.B., as you obviously haven't tested it yourself.
Are you trying to get others to do it for you or what?