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Tryptamines DMT and the pineal gland

Aldousage said:
swilow,

Endogenous isn't a specifically neurological term (it doesn't mean "produced in the brain"), but it's often mistaken as such, particularly in these circles.

If I'd implied that DMT IS produced in the human brain, you'd be correct to challenge me on such a statement. As it happens, I started this thread because of my unhidden skepticism regarding that very theory.
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Yeah, your right there, it means from the body, but yeah- the brain is part of the body. Either way, endogenous DMT is not proven, in that while it may have appeared to come from the body, extraction procedures may inadvertendly create such chemicals. I wish I could find the good source for that though....

As to the notion there must be a receptor type to correpsond with all these chemicals; there already is, the 5HT2a subtype. Psychedelics structurally mimick serotonin, sometimes with more affinity, sometimes with less, but thats the common assumption. There doesn't need to be a DMT receptor as such...

So what are the effects when this substance or human gland is taken?
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A. What substance- DMT?
B. Don't eat pineal glands, especially human ones, especially from living humans, espcially not while pretending to be an undead zombie (zombie brain eaters are a bad trip)
 
you could just smoke dry piss. get a huge metal evaporation tray and drain your main vein for a year on that thing, get like a kilo and do a STB.

while your at it you could also spit in a bucket for the same ammount of time and smoke that dry (aparently spit has a painkiller in it)

i would like to know what would get you more fucked up.

hey its a better idea than reading strassmans book :\
 
Somewhat off topic, but I just finished reading The Whipping Star by Frank Herbert and the characters are able to communicate through an alien intermediary by activating their pineal glands. Drugs are a rather frequent topic in his books, but does anyone knows what his drug experiences are?
 
panic_the_digital said:
Somewhat off topic, but I just finished reading The Whipping Star by Frank Herbert and the characters are able to communicate through an alien intermediary by activating their pineal glands. Drugs are a rather frequent topic in his books, but does anyone knows what his drug experiences are?
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I read this the other day on Reality Sandwich regarding the Dune remake...

Regarding spice, and the psychedelic subtext, the visionary mycologist Paul Stamets was a friend of Frank Herbert, and writes in his recent book "Mycelium Running" that Herbert had mentioned that, "much of the premise of Dune - the magic spice (spores) that allowed the bending of space (tripping), the giant worms (maggots digesting mushrooms), the eyes of the Fremen (the cerulean blue of the psilocybe mushrooms), the mysticism of the female spiritual warriors, the Bene Gesserit (influenced by tales of Maria Sabina and the mushroom cults of Mexico) - came from his perception of the fungal life cycle, and his imagination was stimulated through his experiences with the use of magic mushrooms."

This perhaps throws new light on Herbert's dedication of the book: "To the people whose labours go beyond ideas into the realm of 'real materials' - ot the dry-land ecologists, wherever they may be, in whatever time they work, this effort at prediction is dedicated in humility and admiration."
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^I dunno, but the spice alludes to something....
 
swilow said:
DMT hasn't been found in cerebral tissue; in spinal fluid and urine.
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Have you got some references for this - I'd be interested to know whether this is true, if it's in the CSF it should be in the brain
 
^I don't, but I've never read about it being found in a living brain strangely.
 
^Well that clears it up then. Obviously theres hearsay or speculation; the shits illegal and not often studied....thus forums such as this.

BristolRob said:
You'll need a ref to convince me
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Actually- I'm saying that the prescence of DMT has not been established in a living brain (OBVIOUSLY!!!) so the onus of proof is on you, as your trying to suggest it is. A hypothesis like this cannot be proved by a reference, as it unlikely I will find anything which specifically mentions not finding DMT in brain tissue.

Why do you believe DMT is endogenous and affects the human mind?
 
You'd suggested it had been found in urine and CSF but you cannot cite any supportive evidence for this.

If DMT had been found in human CSF i'd be very interested, but there's no evidence that it has.
 
^This is the refernence Rick Strassman uses and wikipedia

Barker SA, Monti JA and Christian ST (1981). N,N-Dimethyltryptamine: An endogenous hallucinogen. In International Review of Neurobiology, vol 22, pp. 83-110; Academic Press, Inc.
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I think anyway I am confused by what you were saying; are you saying DMT is endogenous or not?
 
Great, thanks for that, will check it out

I don't know if it is or it isn't but would be willing to read anything that reports finding it in urine and CSF.

It would be interesting if it is found endogenously, there's no reason to say that it shouldn't be - beta-carbolines have been found endogenously
 
Can't get the fulltext off maps but will hunt it down

Enzymatic N-methylation of indoleamines by mammalian brain: fact or artefact?Gomes UR, Neethling AC, Shanley BC. 1: J Neurochem. 1976 Sep;27(3):701-5.

1: Schizophr Bull. 1976;2(1):90-105
A review of recent studies of the biosynthesis and excretion of hallucinogens formed by methylation of neurotransmitters or related substances.Rosengarten H, Friedhoff AJ.

^Others
 
^Ah cool :) If anyone can get to the full articles, PLEASE DO SO!!!!

:D
 
Importance of Pineal Gland

Hello all, I don't know if this thread belongs here or where, but I decided to put it here as I figured more people here would have read the book in question. If it should go somewhere else, sorry, and mods please move thanks.

For those of you who have read Strassman's "DMT: The spirit molecule"...
Regarding Strassman's assessment of the pineal gland and its production of endogenous DMT, and its relation to the "spirit" or "lifeforce", what do you think would happen if the pineal gland was removed? Would the life-force instantly be gone from that person? I don't know if its ever been tested, but some searching on the internet shows that there are actually a number of people with pineal cysts. I don't know if removal has ever been looked at or not, but it would be interesting to know Strassman's opinion on the matter, and interesting to hear yours as well.
I haven't finished reading it yet, but one thought that has occurred to me was this: I wonder if at the point where Strassman theorizes that the spirit enters the body (49 days) and the sex of the child is first displayed, if there is some sort of event that decides these things. ie, depending on the chemical makeup of that event, it could determine the course of your life, how spiritual of a person you are likely to become, how feminine or masculine you might be, etc.

All thoughts are welcome!

Oh and for those of you who haven't read Strassman's "DMT: The spirit molecule"...
READ IT!!!
 
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Seeing as how the pineal gland's alleged production of DMT is only conjecture on Rick Strassman's part, I have no reason to think that a person's "life force" would be gone from them upon the removal of the gland. This idea rests on the assumption that the "life force" can be localized to a specific gland or compound, which I think is ridiculous.

Here is a first-hand overview of pineal gland removal due to tumors: http://www.sliloh.com/blog/brain-tumor/what-is-a-pineal-gland-tumor/

Though the author doesn't address this in the article linked above, I imagine removal of the pineal gland would result in some upset of the body's natural clock since it is implicated in the production of melatonin.
 
I won't say how crap I think that book is ;) but I will say that Strassman himself entertains the idea, and conveniently says that the precursors for DMT production occurr all over the body (which is true) such as the lungs; but in saying this, he totally and utterly relegates the importance of the pineal to nothing. Why wouldn't our lungs contain the sacred life-force?

As to what makes us what we are, I don't think its set in stone at 49 days after conception. If so, free will is kinda laughable. I know we inherit traits from our parents, but moreso we develop traits as induced by society, or our own decisions. As to things like physical gender; well, thats not a spiritual element at all, purely biological- which occurrs because of increases/decreases of hormone exposure to the fetus.

I don't think the life-force ever enters the body; the body simply grows around it and encases it. When the body dies, the life-force roams free again.
 
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