Heroin different kinds of #4 and tar heroin
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Tchort
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The chemical process used, the specific solvents/chemicals, skill or experience of the cook, amount of cut, what the cuts are, what kind of conditions has it been stored and trafficked in, etc etc etc
The senses (see/taste/hear/smell/etc) has absolutely nothing to do with the purity of street drugs, or how they feel.
I've posted and written plenty on the effects of different chemicals in the cutting process and how they positively and negatively impact the rush and the high of Heroin.
The definition of Heroin is very elusive.
Someone buying dope to IV in DC may get a brown powder thats fluffy like talcum powder, smell strongly of vinegar, and contain 30% Diamorphine 70% Caffeine, and swear it was shit. Someone in Chicago buying white powder dope to smoke may get dope that is 50% Diacetylmorphine 50% Procaine, and say it was weak or fake.
If the two had the chance to use the reverse samples, they'd completely change their opinion most likely. Why?
Procaine inhibits Diamorphines ability to vaporize, whereas Caffeine aids it greatly. Caffeine adds nothing to the IV rush, however Procaine is definitly a chemical that positively effects the IV rush of Heroin.
But you could never tell content or purity by how it feels, even if you knew what country it came from and what method they used to cook it. Route of administration, the users competance to prepare the drug (improper vaporizing technique ruins a lot of the Heroin that is chased), the cut used, etc all make a huge difference.
A lot of people say strong vineger smell means pure dope. A dealer could dampen a sample of shitty dope with storebought vineger or glacial acetic acid, or just do that to the packaging, and pass off shit as 'pure dope'. Same goes for rush chemicals. If your clients are all shooting, lots of Procaine, Quinine, etc could overcome a lower purity in the opinion of the users.
So, this conversation is in practice pointless.
The senses (see/taste/hear/smell/etc) has absolutely nothing to do with the purity of street drugs, or how they feel.
I've posted and written plenty on the effects of different chemicals in the cutting process and how they positively and negatively impact the rush and the high of Heroin.
The definition of Heroin is very elusive.
Someone buying dope to IV in DC may get a brown powder thats fluffy like talcum powder, smell strongly of vinegar, and contain 30% Diamorphine 70% Caffeine, and swear it was shit. Someone in Chicago buying white powder dope to smoke may get dope that is 50% Diacetylmorphine 50% Procaine, and say it was weak or fake.
If the two had the chance to use the reverse samples, they'd completely change their opinion most likely. Why?
Procaine inhibits Diamorphines ability to vaporize, whereas Caffeine aids it greatly. Caffeine adds nothing to the IV rush, however Procaine is definitly a chemical that positively effects the IV rush of Heroin.
But you could never tell content or purity by how it feels, even if you knew what country it came from and what method they used to cook it. Route of administration, the users competance to prepare the drug (improper vaporizing technique ruins a lot of the Heroin that is chased), the cut used, etc all make a huge difference.
A lot of people say strong vineger smell means pure dope. A dealer could dampen a sample of shitty dope with storebought vineger or glacial acetic acid, or just do that to the packaging, and pass off shit as 'pure dope'. Same goes for rush chemicals. If your clients are all shooting, lots of Procaine, Quinine, etc could overcome a lower purity in the opinion of the users.
So, this conversation is in practice pointless.
JokerJoker
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yeah
I'm from Baltimore Md, heroin capital of the world. I can definitely say I've been around the block at least a few times with dope. On the Southside of the town you got the mexicans that hang out, and they sell plastic wrapped tar. You can't just say a gram of dope costs 100 bucks and thats a great price because everybodys got different purity dope. But I started in New York, and after a year of shooting I needed at least 20 bucks to get me out the gate in the morning and at least another 30 after work to get me able to sleep. In baltimore the worst 10 dollar pill or bag got me higher then 40 bucks of new york dope. The mexican tar aint shit compared to what we got up northwest but people coming from dc columbia virginia and north carolina, and yes we got people who drive up to 300 miles just to cop, go for it cause theyre the only people that freely serve white folk. If you want good dope you gotsta go to a black guy, and in order to get him to serve you you gotsta be friends with them or one of their friends already or if one of your junkie homeboys already cops from them, police are a bitch in baltimore. But all in all, theres 2 types of dope worrth buying, people call it scramble and raw. Scramble is white dope and comes in gelcaps, like the capsules that you get prescribed by your doctors that medicine comes in that are pills, thats why they call them pills. Raw dope is usually beige or dark brown and you usually get about the size of a dime (the money) laid out for 10 bucks, but people also sell 20s and 50s and 50s are the way to go cause you get at least 6 dimes of dope worth. Scramble is real stepped on and you get a shitload of powder, with lots of shit elft in the cooker. With raw you get everything back when you cook it and it only takes about 5 seconds of heat to cook up. All in all baltimore dope is the shit, and my buddy came down from new york and hes been a dopefiend for about 11 years. He does a 25 shot in the morning just to get right and a 50 shot after work to get high. He shot up 20 of the raw dope and I had to take him to sinai hospital to get him narcon. Seriously, in the hood you see plates from jersey, pennsylvania, virginia, new york, north carolina, west virginia, all there to cop cause the dope is the shit. If you live in the vicinity go to park heights and belvedere if youre black and youll get a sick dime and thats in the northwest and if youre white or mexican go to highland and baltimore in the southeast in highlandtown. I buy 50s and do 8 dollars in the morning 8 dollars at lunch and 24 after work. I went to new york and did 4 dimes and I was about where I should be off 1/6 of a 50 of our dope. Come to town, it kicks ass, 1 out of every 8 residents is a dopefiend and theyll all help you out.
I'm from Baltimore Md, heroin capital of the world. I can definitely say I've been around the block at least a few times with dope. On the Southside of the town you got the mexicans that hang out, and they sell plastic wrapped tar. You can't just say a gram of dope costs 100 bucks and thats a great price because everybodys got different purity dope. But I started in New York, and after a year of shooting I needed at least 20 bucks to get me out the gate in the morning and at least another 30 after work to get me able to sleep. In baltimore the worst 10 dollar pill or bag got me higher then 40 bucks of new york dope. The mexican tar aint shit compared to what we got up northwest but people coming from dc columbia virginia and north carolina, and yes we got people who drive up to 300 miles just to cop, go for it cause theyre the only people that freely serve white folk. If you want good dope you gotsta go to a black guy, and in order to get him to serve you you gotsta be friends with them or one of their friends already or if one of your junkie homeboys already cops from them, police are a bitch in baltimore. But all in all, theres 2 types of dope worrth buying, people call it scramble and raw. Scramble is white dope and comes in gelcaps, like the capsules that you get prescribed by your doctors that medicine comes in that are pills, thats why they call them pills. Raw dope is usually beige or dark brown and you usually get about the size of a dime (the money) laid out for 10 bucks, but people also sell 20s and 50s and 50s are the way to go cause you get at least 6 dimes of dope worth. Scramble is real stepped on and you get a shitload of powder, with lots of shit elft in the cooker. With raw you get everything back when you cook it and it only takes about 5 seconds of heat to cook up. All in all baltimore dope is the shit, and my buddy came down from new york and hes been a dopefiend for about 11 years. He does a 25 shot in the morning just to get right and a 50 shot after work to get high. He shot up 20 of the raw dope and I had to take him to sinai hospital to get him narcon. Seriously, in the hood you see plates from jersey, pennsylvania, virginia, new york, north carolina, west virginia, all there to cop cause the dope is the shit. If you live in the vicinity go to park heights and belvedere if youre black and youll get a sick dime and thats in the northwest and if youre white or mexican go to highland and baltimore in the southeast in highlandtown. I buy 50s and do 8 dollars in the morning 8 dollars at lunch and 24 after work. I went to new york and did 4 dimes and I was about where I should be off 1/6 of a 50 of our dope. Come to town, it kicks ass, 1 out of every 8 residents is a dopefiend and theyll all help you out.
Man this is probably one of the few downsides of living in CA. All i have ever heard about around here is tar. No China white or tan powder. Im not a big fan of the Tar my ROA is typically snorting (oc's) so with tar i would waterline but that shit tastes gross so ive just been sticking to my OC'S, when i can get em.
rachamim
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Man they still Dic*sizing here? OK, my favourite is SE #4, just throw it in the syringe and shake, no heat and no filter because it is as pure as it gets (in Asia). In the US? There is no way to tell, or even to care because unless you are the one importing it, or have a friend in the DEA, you have no way to know where it came from and usually what is in it.
Tar is garbage regardless because of the manufacturing process and the risk of botulism. It is possible to clean it up though in reality no junkie will spend 2 hours filtering and cooking before ingesting.
There was a time, 13 years ago and longer when NYC heroin was uniformly adulterated with lactose and quinine. It had a very smoothe sweet taste with a tiny bitter tang at the end. Even though purity was lower, quality was unfirom and the adulterants not whatever some punter had in his mom's medicine cabinet. Today it is anyone's guess.
Tar is garbage regardless because of the manufacturing process and the risk of botulism. It is possible to clean it up though in reality no junkie will spend 2 hours filtering and cooking before ingesting.
There was a time, 13 years ago and longer when NYC heroin was uniformly adulterated with lactose and quinine. It had a very smoothe sweet taste with a tiny bitter tang at the end. Even though purity was lower, quality was unfirom and the adulterants not whatever some punter had in his mom's medicine cabinet. Today it is anyone's guess.
oneswtwld
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i found that the "rocky" powder (whatever it is...the acid, which smells lke vinegar) got me the most fucked up... but only in high doses... smaller doses didnt even do much ata ll... and the higher doses were short-lived
the #4 shit... or at least as close as can get in NY is much better feeling and lasts
never tried tar.... glad I havent had to.... would love some now
the #4 shit... or at least as close as can get in NY is much better feeling and lasts
never tried tar.... glad I havent had to.... would love some now
rachamim
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In the US, basically all powder IS #4. I am sure someone must have already broken it down here but just to clarify:
There are 4 numbers utilised when describing heroin, 1 through 4.
Heroin #1 is merely morphine freebase.
Heroin #2 is heroin freebase.
Heroin #3 is heroin specifically manufactured, in SE Asia, for smoking.
Heroin #4 is heroin hcl specifically manufactured for injection.
Tar falls outside the numbering system, I will explain. In the very early 1970s, when the DEA was created, there was no Tar. Morphine freebase was given a number because of the (then) customary practice of using morphine freebase as a commodity to be bought and sold along the manufacturing pipeline.
For example, certain Turkish, Lebanese, Syrian and Golden Triangle manufactuers would handle nothing but morphine. It takes less chemicals and can be made oh so simply, and at the time high quality heroin producers did not want to be bothered with the entire synthesis.
Today it is rarely if ever produced and if it is found at all it will be in Burma for trade in Southern Thailand/Northern Malaysia.
#2, heroin freebase, is only made in the Golden Crescent, in Southern and Central Asia, primarily Afghanistan. This is the type perdominantly found in Europe as well as Indonesia (a curious twist that one). It is smoked as is, because the melting point and vapourisation point for heroin freebase are so closely synchronised. It is very rarely even heard of in North America.
Designed as an intermediate form in the manufacturing process, it became popular in Europe when South and Central Asian distributors took advantage of the European penchant for #3.
It can only be injected with an acidic catalyst to rectify the pH differential. Most people use some citric acid to convert it to an injectable form (an acid, though very rough one).
It can be insufflated (sniffed) with little difficulty because the salinity in your nasal mucous will convert its pH to almost optimum range.
#3 is heroin hcl, or rarely just heroin acetate. At the point of manufacture the "cook" adds caffeine to synchronise the melting and vapourisation points as well as flavorants (quinine, strychnine, etc) and sometimes colourants. Its colour can be red, purple, grey and so on. It is also usually produed in uniformly produced granules which look like pieces of rice.
This type has only ever ben produced in the Goldent Triangle and was only ever popular in Bangkok, Southern Thailand, Peninsular Malaysia and Hong Kong. It is now believed to be extinct, with the last labs (same ones actually using #1) in the northern jungles of Malaysia being taken down in 2004.
Its history is directly related to the Shanghai Heroin Pills produced in legal factories in the 1920s and 30s. Although not compounded as a tablet its ingredients are almost identical.
#4 was the first type of heroin ever produced, and remains the dominant form everywhere but Europe and Indonesia. All Colombian, no matter the colour, is #4. Mexican Mud, the granular brown heroin of the 70s and 80s was also #4. Today, most brown powder from Mexico though is Tar, converted into a powder.
Tar came into existence in the very late 70s/early 80s from Mexican producers who found it difficult to obtain all the needed chemicals.
Most people believe Tar to be acetylated opium. In other words, the believe the "cook" skips steps 2 and 3 of a 4 step process, simply taking raw opium, adding a glacial acetic acid and heating it. This is false.
Opium on average has a 10% content of morphine. The highest content ever recorded in lab grown poppies was 27%. IF ALL poppies had 27% morphine, Tar could have at most, 27% purity. Of course there is some Tar with a purity as high as 84/85% Acetylating opium will not increase the active content.
If you examine another form of heroin that falls outside the numbering system you will begin to understand the nature of Tar. "Home Baked" is a form made in New Zealand made from codeine (demethylated into morphine), morphine or when it existed, Diconal. Its consistency is exactly like Tars. Its constituency is exactly the same as well (MAMS 3 and 6) and so one can easily see how Tar is made (if they care to learn about the Home Bake process).
There are 4 numbers utilised when describing heroin, 1 through 4.
Heroin #1 is merely morphine freebase.
Heroin #2 is heroin freebase.
Heroin #3 is heroin specifically manufactured, in SE Asia, for smoking.
Heroin #4 is heroin hcl specifically manufactured for injection.
Tar falls outside the numbering system, I will explain. In the very early 1970s, when the DEA was created, there was no Tar. Morphine freebase was given a number because of the (then) customary practice of using morphine freebase as a commodity to be bought and sold along the manufacturing pipeline.
For example, certain Turkish, Lebanese, Syrian and Golden Triangle manufactuers would handle nothing but morphine. It takes less chemicals and can be made oh so simply, and at the time high quality heroin producers did not want to be bothered with the entire synthesis.
Today it is rarely if ever produced and if it is found at all it will be in Burma for trade in Southern Thailand/Northern Malaysia.
#2, heroin freebase, is only made in the Golden Crescent, in Southern and Central Asia, primarily Afghanistan. This is the type perdominantly found in Europe as well as Indonesia (a curious twist that one). It is smoked as is, because the melting point and vapourisation point for heroin freebase are so closely synchronised. It is very rarely even heard of in North America.
Designed as an intermediate form in the manufacturing process, it became popular in Europe when South and Central Asian distributors took advantage of the European penchant for #3.
It can only be injected with an acidic catalyst to rectify the pH differential. Most people use some citric acid to convert it to an injectable form (an acid, though very rough one).
It can be insufflated (sniffed) with little difficulty because the salinity in your nasal mucous will convert its pH to almost optimum range.
#3 is heroin hcl, or rarely just heroin acetate. At the point of manufacture the "cook" adds caffeine to synchronise the melting and vapourisation points as well as flavorants (quinine, strychnine, etc) and sometimes colourants. Its colour can be red, purple, grey and so on. It is also usually produed in uniformly produced granules which look like pieces of rice.
This type has only ever ben produced in the Goldent Triangle and was only ever popular in Bangkok, Southern Thailand, Peninsular Malaysia and Hong Kong. It is now believed to be extinct, with the last labs (same ones actually using #1) in the northern jungles of Malaysia being taken down in 2004.
Its history is directly related to the Shanghai Heroin Pills produced in legal factories in the 1920s and 30s. Although not compounded as a tablet its ingredients are almost identical.
#4 was the first type of heroin ever produced, and remains the dominant form everywhere but Europe and Indonesia. All Colombian, no matter the colour, is #4. Mexican Mud, the granular brown heroin of the 70s and 80s was also #4. Today, most brown powder from Mexico though is Tar, converted into a powder.
Tar came into existence in the very late 70s/early 80s from Mexican producers who found it difficult to obtain all the needed chemicals.
Most people believe Tar to be acetylated opium. In other words, the believe the "cook" skips steps 2 and 3 of a 4 step process, simply taking raw opium, adding a glacial acetic acid and heating it. This is false.
Opium on average has a 10% content of morphine. The highest content ever recorded in lab grown poppies was 27%. IF ALL poppies had 27% morphine, Tar could have at most, 27% purity. Of course there is some Tar with a purity as high as 84/85% Acetylating opium will not increase the active content.
If you examine another form of heroin that falls outside the numbering system you will begin to understand the nature of Tar. "Home Baked" is a form made in New Zealand made from codeine (demethylated into morphine), morphine or when it existed, Diconal. Its consistency is exactly like Tars. Its constituency is exactly the same as well (MAMS 3 and 6) and so one can easily see how Tar is made (if they care to learn about the Home Bake process).
headcase666
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No one with half a brain would choose tar over powdered dope. Tar is garbage! It is cut with fucking shoe polish for petes sake!
thugpassion
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I'm waiting for the fast forward (and I assume the question that follows)
Anyways, Johanneschimpo, is that right in Cali no more?!..... But North Carolina, an interesting point. I flew from LAx to Raliighe/Duram airport to "get clean" in O5 or 06, Idunno? anyways on the transfer in Dallas fort worth I smoked up three bags of Heron in the bathroom before getting on a plane for NC. But, from what I put together NC isn't that far behinde California as far as mexicans " and tar" go. NC Is right behind California in imigration of nationals from Mex in all the the states in the union.
Znegative
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I'm from NY, and I find the dope I get here very's dramatically, depending where I get it. I live in brooklyn, and I find that the dope I get here around red hook is probably the best I've had. Its white and very soft, it often sort of comes out of the bags in sheets. Earlier this year, I copped from several different people in Manhattan, and it was all crap. No rush. But these brooklyn bags do the trick.
Tommyboy
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I believe that is no3..... Actually I just read the descriptions given in the post a couple before ours and it seems more like no 2. You have to add citric acid for it to dissolve, correct?
oliphill
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Yep, any exchange gives out citric acid or vitamin c sachets.
Tommyboy
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I cannot find the video on youtube right now, but there is one showing the actual amount of citric acid needed to break down the heroin. It is far less than the amount given in one of the little packets. I am assuming that it is better to use as little citric acid as possible when dissolving said sunstance, so you should look for the video, or just use less, and add a little more if needed to fully dissolve.
DBirk
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Still don't get the difference between #3 and #4 from chemical point of view besides additives (cooffeine, qunnine etc.) Both are salts (hcl), right? What else?
And why glacial acetic acid? It'll ruin the whole thing. It's acetic anhydride, which is always (and only) used. Acetic anhydride doesn't dissolve in water, while glacial acid does. By the way, that "vinegar" smell is the smell of anhydride, and it smells close but not exactly like vinegar.