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Dennis McKenna on drugs

The Mckenna's never abused mushrooms or ayahuasca, and they never disrespected any native cultures, and nobody ever claimed they did.

You have made an unsubstantiated, false and nonsensical claim which bears no relation whatsoever to reality, and which has no evidence to support it.

Haven't you ever read any of their books? Or listened to any of their lectures/crackpot ramblings? Or read anything about them such as their writings about going to the Amazon to simply abuse Ayahuasca and mushrooms in their book True Hallucinations? They did in fact disrespect native cultures and the way these cultures use Ayahuasca, mushrooms, and other plants/fungi during religious ceremonies.

Everything myself and Felonious Monk have posted about the McKennas is factual, and easily found out about them. Keep an open mind and look at things from a different perspective, and do your own research instead of relying on other people to do it for you and then turning around and saying 'nope! you're wrong! 8)' while you do not face reality or the facts about the McKennas or about Ayahuasca tourism.

Terence with all his narcissism, megalomania, and false bravado about abusing mushrooms and frequently taking heroic doses of them, completely stopped taking mushrooms in 1988 after he got bitch slapped with a bad trip. Unfortunately Terence and Dennis wasted their lives, intelligence, potential, and abilities on drugs.
 
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They did in fact disrespect native cultures and the way these cultures use Ayahuasca, mushrooms, and other plants/fungi during religious ceremonies.


You are the only person who is saying this. This is just your opinion, based on nothing real or factual

Everything myself and Felonious Monk have posted about the McKennas is factual, and easily found out about them.


No it isnt, none of these claims have any support or evidence, they are purely based on your own opinion. You would not be able to provide any substantial evidence to support these claims because they are completely false.

Terence with all his narcissism, megalomania, and false bravado about abusing mushrooms and frequently taking heroic doses of them, completely stopped taking mushrooms in 1988 after he got bitch slapped with a bad trip.

This ^ is another false claim based on long-since-discredited lies and hearsay. Again, no actual factual basis in reality, just pure fabricated nonsense.
 
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Priest, I have no strong opinion regarding the McKenna brothers, pro or con, but you need to realize that your posts have been excessively abrasive and judgmental. Without three or more reputable sources that support your claims, along with Felonious', much of what you've said borders on the libelous.
 
I'm pretty sure there is a video on youtube (in fact the last interview before Terence died), where he admitted, that he did not take shrooms for a long time, which would support Priest's claim. From the video I got the impression, that his girlfriend was not the brightest one, which also points into the charlatan direction.

Moreover I have always seen Terence as a comedian rather than as a legit teacher of self recognition.
 
I'm pretty sure there is a video on youtube (in fact the last interview before Terence died), where he admitted, that he did not take shrooms for a long time, which would support Priest's claim.

Actually in one of Terence's last interviews in the Entheogen Review Winter 1999 Volume VIII Number 4 (how is that for a source!) he said that although mushrooms themselves were triggering seizures because of the tumor that he was tripping on straight psilocybin up till the end of his life. He wanted to pick and probe death. So the statement I see all over the internet that Terence hadn't tripped since 1988 is straight up internet bullshit that gets repeated and believed.

I have to wonder why there are such strong feelings for Terence McKenna. Some people get really rattled by him. LOL Not sure why. There are plenty of real people to get pissed off at!

I agree with Ziirp, I consider Terence a comedian and showman. HE and Dennis did help move humanity ahead by writing that book about mushrooms. I remember the successes and the praise when people were able to do it and have real mushrooms.
 
^ I pretty much mean other people Ziirp that do have strong feelings. Not really you. But the comedian thing is accurate for me anyway.
 
I'm pretty sure there is a video on youtube (in fact the last interview before Terence died), where he admitted, that he did not take shrooms for a long time, which would support Priest's claim. From the video I got the impression, that his girlfriend was not the brightest one, which also points into the charlatan direction.

Moreover I have always seen Terence as a comedian rather than as a legit teacher of self recognition.

You may not like Terence McKenna, that's up to you. He has made over the years several controversial statements, that is absolutely true. And controversial people annoy others, that's the purpose of being controversial! The fact that he did not take mushrooms for a long time does not support anything. I believe that even Dennis has corroborated this in a recent interview. But how does that make Terence a Charlatan? Did he ever lied on that respect? Also how is Dennis, a reputed pharmacologist, a charlatan? Are all his papers, published in some of the best journals in the area, frauds?
 
Sorry, I don't know anything about Dennis, having a PhD in that field he must at least be mediocre intelligent, does not imply that he treated indigenous tribes and their sacraments with appropriate respect, but as I said I can only provide my opinion about Terence. My advice is : Watch the video and tell me how a legit seeker can have such a girlfriend ?
 
@ Ziiirp - I just watched the video again -- I had done so many years ago -- but I found nothing regarding TM's supposed abstinence from mushrooms. Please let me know if I missed something. Actually, is that question even relevant? As for his SO, she's in the video for less than three minutes and barely says anything. Incidentally, if nothing else, this video suggests that TM was against the commercialization of ayahuasca, among other things that refute some of the vicious accusations found in this thread. The interview dates from December of 1999, which is about four months before his death. For reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpar50xrg18.

Regarding the Entheogen Review, Volume VIII, Number 4, Winter Solstice interview that Jack mentioned, here's the exact quote:

Jon: Have you cut back dramatically on any type of drug use?

Terence: At first I cut back on Cannabis, because it seemed to trigger the seizures. But then I easily got that corrected. Now I’m smoking as much dope as I ever did. I haven’t been taking ayahuasca, because the vomiting reflex is too scary in terms of the brain seizure reflex. They’re really closely related. So I’ve been taking psilocybin. We happen to have some actual pure psilocybin, not mushrooms. And it’s great. So I guess the answer is no. I want to probe into it, I want to understand it. I mean obviously, death is a very big deal.


The interview was conducted by Jon Hanna and Sylvia Thyssen at the 1999 Allchemical Arts Conference, which took place prior to the video interview above.
 
That whole "prolonged dishonest mushroom abstinence" rumour about Terence was just a publicity stunt by Dennis Mckenna to sell copies of his books to gullible Terence fans (and it worked), it was promptly retracted after its initial release, and the source of the rumour, Kat Harrison, has always vehemently denied any such thing.

Most of Terence's family including his children and his ex-wife Kat have completely disowned Dennis because of the "mushroom abstinence" lie, now they wont have anything to do with him.

It is bizarre how much lies and deliberate disinfo gets thrown about on the internet, if you want to know the true information about Terence Mckenna, the person to go to is Terence himself, he was always clear, explicit and honest about his ideas and intentions. Terence always said he only used drugs rarely, and he never said anyone should use drugs regularly.
 
Read any of Terence and Dennis' books or listen to their crackpot lectures on youtube.

I've listened to pretty much all of the Terence Mckenna lectures, at least once, usually more than once, and yes, I have read True Hallucinations. Sorry, but I think it's clear that this is more about your personal opinions on Terence, than it is about some kind of widespread resentment permeating throughout the Amazon jungle.

Terence was a likeable, witty character and undoubtably an incredibly articulate, gifted story teller. I think that if you yourself had kept an open mind when you'd listened to Terrence then you would realise that he was as humble and umpfront about his shortcomings as anybody else. For example:

but McKenna has to keep his brand running since nothing happened in 2012 like he and Terence swore it would with their junk pseudo-science. ;)

To claim that they swore 2012 would happen is pretty fallacious. Terence was pretty open about the fact that it was a strange idea, just an idea, and that you should take his ideas with a pinch of salt. If you listen to him this becomes apparent. He doesn't need to prefix everything he says with clarification that he is stating weird ideas which he conjured on mushrooms; it's a given, that's his whole thing. He spoke in riddles and metaphors.

To start with, these were Dennis Mckenna's views (pre 2012). Terence basically said that the date of 21st of December 2012 would roughly mark the start of a consiousness shift for humanity. I'm not sure he ever said that we were going to suddenly wake up in the morning on that date and everybody would have magically evolved in their sleep. He said that there would be a consiousness shift. And to be honest, I'm not sure he was entirely wrong about that. There is absolutely no doubt that pychedelics are on the uprise in society. I've certainly witnessed people all around me 'waking up', and the psychedelics are undoubtably the cause.

Or talk to people who lead spiritual or religious ceremonies with Ayahuasca, psilocybin, or San Pedro in countries where it is legal to do this, these people do not like frauds like McKenna and others who go to their country to abuse ayahuasca, and promote tourism mainly so others will do the same.

Which brings me to this. I understand that there are problems associated with ayahuasca tourism, but there are problems inherent to doing psychedelics, or pretty much anything else.

Let us not allow our egos to muddy what's actually going on here. Our species is utterly corrupt and really is sleep walking down a very dark path. A potential cure appears to lie within the psychedelics. The time of the people of the Amazon is over, and many of their customs are going to disappear forever. It's sad, but true. Nothing is forever. Ayahuasca is spreading into the west, because there is a need to take it. Not because people think it's cool, but because people are experiencing a need to better understand themselves and the world around them (just like anybody else on this forum, I presume).

I'm not certain that embracing all of the traditions of people who lived on another continent hundreds of years ago is the way to go. We're moving into the future, not the past, and I don't think this is a time for conservative attitudes. This forum is an absolute testament to the fact that you don't need to be a shaman to take psychedelics. And you don't need to post on bluelight either. They're for everyone.

I'd just like to end this by reiterating that I don't think Terence was wrong at all.

I can certainly see the shift. It was never going to realistically be anything other than subtle.
 
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To be fond, I don't see Terence as bad person, in fact what he said was always craftily articulated and quite entertaining, at the same time gentle. What I did not like was his speech audience and how his speech was influenced by the drive to entertain the uninformed crowd instead of preparing them for the best possible journey through altered mind states/"hyperspace". The focus for my taste was too much on the entertainment side of the teaching spectrum.

There would be no reason to criticize those mannerisms if not today there would exist the consensus, that Terence McKenna is on par with Shulgin, Strassman, Grof in terms of preparing the society for an open interaction with mind altering substances/exercises. In my view he is more on the level of Leary, who has in common, that he misgauged the maturity of his audience, when he quite radically tried to transform the society by (ab)using psychedelics.

To be honest, the statement of Terence, which shattered me the most was, that meditation did not make sense for him, when he was sober but only on shrooms he would feel the urge to sit down and contemplate. I think it was recorded during the dialogue with Shulgin. For me, that is really a dangerous message.
 
To be fond, I don't see Terence as bad person, in fact what he said was always craftily articulated and quite entertaining, at the same time gentle. What I did not like was his speech audience and how his speech was influenced by the drive to entertain the uninformed crowd instead of preparing them for the best possible journey through altered mind states/"hyperspace". The focus for my taste was too much on the entertainment side of the teaching spectrum.

There would be no reason to criticize those mannerisms if not today there would exist the consensus, that Terence McKenna is on par with Shulgin, Strassman, Grof in terms of preparing the society for an open interaction with mind altering substances/exercises. In my view he is more on the level of Leary, who has in common, that he misgauged the maturity of his audience, when he quite radically tried to transform the society by (ab)using psychedelics.

To be honest, the statement of Terence, which shattered me the most was, that meditation did not make sense for him, when he was sober but only on shrooms he would feel the urge to sit down and contemplate. I think it was recorded during the dialogue with Shulgin. For me, that is really a dangerous message.

Well said.
 
To be honest, the statement of Terence, which shattered me the most was, that meditation did not make sense for him, when he was sober but only on shrooms he would feel the urge to sit down and contemplate. I think it was recorded during the dialogue with Shulgin. For me, that is really a dangerous message.

Why is that a dangerous message? Is that a dangerous message for you? [in that case you are welcome to disregard it] Or is it a "dangerous message" for others? If that is the case, which "others"? And how are you qualified to say that Terence's statement is dangerous or not?
 
Statements like those are partially responsible for the spread of threads like "Am I be able to take LSD at 14?" instead of threads like "Which practices can aid me to sharpen my mind as a teenager?".

Moreover that message is disrespectful towards millions of sober practitioners around the globe. It suggest, that the mandalas (which he referred to in the dialogue) must have been invented on a mind altering substance and could not have been developed without. The inherent message glorifies a lazy attitude towards the process of self recognition. And the magnitude of danger was multiples higher because it was claimed by a reputable icon of the psychedelic "movement".
 
Statements like those are partially responsible for the spread of threads like "Am I be able to take LSD at 14?" instead of threads like "Which practices can aid me to sharpen my mind as a teenager?".

Moreover that message is disrespectful towards millions of sober practitioners around the globe. It suggest, that the mandalas (which he referred to in the dialogue) must have been invented on a mind altering substance and could not have been developed without. The inherent message glorifies a lazy attitude towards the process of self recognition. And the magnitude of danger was multiples higher because it was claimed by a reputable icon of the psychedelic "movement".

Ziirp, that's a slippery slope argument. If you think and argue like that, I'm not surprised you do not like Terence. You like meditating without drugs, good for you. Terence only did like to meditate on mushrooms, it suited him. He never said that people should only meditate on drugs.
 
If a public figure claims something, simple statements are often interpreted as imperative by the devotees. Where did I say, that I do not like Terence McKenna ? He was a talented comedian and public speaker. This discussion should be about Dennis McKenna anyways. ;)
 
Says the guy that persisted in steering the thread toward TM... Pathetic. Care to address post #30, or do you wish to wipe off now the egg that's still on your face?
 
Chh thinking that using psychedelics in certain ways is abusing them, especially because their more ancient then others, is egotistical bullshit. People who think this way usually have at least partially missed the common messages psychedelics pump out IMO. There is no right way to use anything and you should be a humble enough forward thinker that you can understand that the way you think of using things may not be how others do things, that you might be the minority.... You should certainly respect and care for others methods or thoughts, but that doesn't mean you have to do what they do or follow what they do. It's up to you too invent your own right and wrong as well as not pushing those personally founded beliefs on others if it's not something their interested in....

I agree with this so much. I don't know why it is, but with psychedelics everyone seems to thinks that everyone else should trip just like they do. It's a prescriptive and egotistical attitude that says "I'm doing it right, therefore you must be doing it wrong". But the psychedelic experience is a multifaceted jewel!
 
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