Dennis McKenna on drugs

[SteamboatBillJr]

I think that education is key. People have to come at these things from an informed place. Then they have to get real drug education and the big travesty [is current] drug education is a joke. The whole message of drug education is don't do it. Thats not going to work, people have an inherent drive. It's like the same approach to sex education, “abstinence is the only choice”. Thats fine in an ideal world but, in fact people are going to have sex, it's built into us. Tweaking the receptors we have through evolution is built into human behavior. So, the thing is to teach people. Give them real information about the risks and benefits of the substances. Teach them how to make good choices. Both in the substances that they choose to use and the circumstances in which they choose to use them. Right? If you can do that then the idea is to minimize the harm and maximize the benefit. This is not such a crazy idea.

In other words, drug education has got to teach people how to use drugs, not don't do it. [We should teach] if you choose to use substances then here's how to do it. It's just like getting a drivers license. We don't let people go out and drive without a lesson in how to do it and that's the solution. Even though cars can be dangerous and drugs can be dangerous stupidity and lack of preparation is far more dangerous, yeah.

Intellectual Gentlemen's Club: podcast #27

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

Do you all have any opinions of your own? I thought that was worth giving a second thought.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Meh, McKenna and his late brother are charlatans and jokes who just want to promote their brand/books.

People who are into leading ceremonies in countries where Ayahuasca, Psilocybin mushrooms, and San Pedro cacti are taken in countries where it's legal to do this have said how the McKenna brothers did not respect any of the traditions of native people who took these plant/fungi for thousands of years, and abused Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, San Pedro cacti and paid the price for it.

 

[lamanogaucha]

That said, Priest, the quote that Steamboat posted is worth remembering, ime.

 

[Rorthron]

Meh, McKenna and his late brother are charlatans and jokes who just want to promote their brand/books.

People who are into leading ceremonies in countries where Ayahuasca, Psilocybin mushrooms, and San Pedro cacti are taken in countries where it's legal to do this have said how the McKenna brothers did not respect any of the traditions of native people who took these plant/fungi for thousands of years, and abused Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, San Pedro cacti and paid the price for it.

We must be already on the silly season. You may not like the McKennas, it's up to you. But accusing them of being charlatans is serious and obviously out of line [it's sort of surprising this coming from a BL moderator] In case you do not know, it was Terence who basically invented the mushroom cultivation procedures and thus revolutionizing psychedelic's use in the West and Denis is an authority on pharmacology, specifically psychedelics. Here's an outdated list of publications Obviously all rubbish and con acts.

But back to the OT. Can you criticize anything on what that "charlatan" has written? Plain common sense if you ask me.

 

[Tranced]

People who are into leading ceremonies in countries where Ayahuasca, Psilocybin mushrooms, and San Pedro cacti are taken in countries where it's legal to do this have said how the McKenna brothers did not respect any of the traditions of native people who took these plant/fungi for thousands of years, and abused Ayahuasca, Psilocybin, San Pedro cacti and paid the price for it.

Source?

 

[Felonious Monk]

We must be already on the silly season. You may not like the McKennas, it's up to you. But accusing them of being charlatans is serious and obviously out of line [it's sort of surprising this coming from a BL moderator] In case you do not know, it was Terence who basically invented the mushroom cultivation procedures and thus revolutionizing psychedelic's use in the West and Denis is an authority on pharmacology, specifically psychedelics.

lol buddy, "out of line." It's called an opinion...on the internet.

I've actually heard some of the same things about the McKennas lately. They certainly have some interesting theories, and the psychedelic community owes them a debt of sorts, but it seems they did not respect the sacraments within the traditions from which they emerged.

Someone also pointed out to me just last Thursday that many of the most famous DMT proponents have all died of brain cancer.

 

[JackARoe]

They certainly have some interesting theories, and the psychedelic community owes them a debt of sorts, but it seems they did not respect the sacraments within the traditions from which they emerged.

I have to wonder the exact terms of respect is in these instances. Taking them out of context and tradition can only make new traditions. The only respect I can see is humbleness and kindness when in someone else's house. It would be disrespectful to crap all over a ceremony, yet I am not thinking based off the books these guys wrote that they were anything but attentive and willing to learn.

Probably unrelated but sometimes the whole "don't smoke Salvia it is disrespectful" sort of misses the boat on what happened with Salvia. It made it to the West and other countries and introduced itself as something to smoke. That quick transition from smoked leaf was needed for it to be recognized. I know I have had many wonderful smoked Salvia experiences and learned a lot of things. To me, although quidding is interesting, smoking brought me more in the last 17 years(for now at least). So one man's disrespect is another's new tradition. To me the only true disrespect is not having respect for people, places and things. Taking the substance out of it's natural environment is not disrespect to me. It is utilizing a tool that nobody owns. A gift from nature that was bound to make it out of it's natural environment in a modern world.

As far as the Mckenna's I do remember the book by O. T. Oss, O. N. Oeric, finally helping people to sprout mushrooms in the US. By the late 70's you actually could purchase real psilocybin mushrooms and not risk having regular white mushrooms sprinkled with LSD or PCP. We can thank the McKennas. I remember a bag I bought off someone in 1980 that had learned from that book.

As far as philosophies and theories, it seems to me most of the one's that Terrence put forth was more for good conversation than science. He's say that too. Just some good conversation. People still listen it seems and for good reason. The bravery to throw out ideas and be laughed at while laughing yourself was pretty fun.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

lol buddy, "out of line." It's called an opinion...on the internet.

I've actually heard some of the same things about the McKennas lately. They certainly have some interesting theories, and the psychedelic community owes them a debt of sorts, but it seems they did not respect the sacraments within the traditions from which they emerged.

Someone also pointed out to me just last Thursday that many of the most famous DMT proponents have all died of brain cancer.

Exactly.

The only respect I can see is humbleness and kindness when in someone else's house. It would be disrespectful to crap all over a ceremony,

That's exactly what native people in countries where it's legal to take Ayahuasca know the McKenna brothers, and their wives/girlfriends did when they visited the Amazon claiming to be ethnobotanists/botanists when they're not, and basically helped start Ayahuasca tourism, and abused Ayahuasca, and Psilocybin mushrooms, and did not respect how these plant mixtures and fungi had been used by people there for 1,000s of years or the ceremonies that are done there, and see them as frauds or wannabe shamans who don't know the first thing about any of the plants or fungi they abuse or advocate others to abuse.

Yes Dennis is affiliated with an Ayahuasca tourist trap in Peru, however it is basically a place a lot of western tourists go, and it's not that well run. There's also a retreat about Ayahuasca he's affiliated with but again it's just an excuse to get high and abuse Ayahuasca, and other plants/fungi that are legal there.

 

[Help?!?!]

Chh thinking that using psychedelics in certain ways is abusing them, especially because their more ancient then others, is egotistical bullshit. People who think this way usually have at least partially missed the common messages psychedelics pump out IMO. There is no right way to use anything and you should be a humble enough forward thinker that you can understand that the way you think of using things may not be how others do things, that you might be the minority.... You should certainly respect and care for others methods or thoughts, but that doesn't mean you have to do what they do or follow what they do. It's up to you too invent your own right and wrong as well as not pushing those personally founded beliefs on others if it's not something their interested in....

 

[Tranced]

Exactly.



That's exactly what native people in countries where it's legal to take Ayahuasca know the McKenna brothers, and their wives/girlfriends did when they visited the Amazon claiming to be ethnobotanists/botanists when they're not, and basically helped start Ayahuasca tourism, and abused Ayahuasca, and Psilocybin mushrooms, and did not respect how these plant mixtures and fungi had been used by people there for 1,000s of years or the ceremonies that are done there, and see them as frauds or wannabe shamans who don't know the first thing about any of the plants or fungi they abuse or advocate others to abuse.

Yes Dennis is affiliated with an Ayahuasca tourist trap in Peru, however it is basically a place a lot of western tourists go, and it's not that well run. There's also a retreat about Ayahuasca he's affiliated with but again it's just an excuse to get high and abuse Ayahuasca, and other plants/fungi that are legal there.

Have you got a source for any of this?

 

[max_freakout]

they did not respect the sacraments within the traditions from which they emerged.

Someone also pointed out to me just last Thursday that many of the most famous DMT proponents have all died of brain cancer.

This ^ is 100% fabricated nonsense, the Mckenna's never disrespected or abused any sacraments or traditions (or were ever accused of doing so), and no "DMT proponent" ever died of brain cancer except Terence, that person you spoke to last Thursday was lying to you.

Like many internet conversations, this one bears almost no relation to reality

 

[max_freakout]

Have you got a source for any of this?

of course not, it's all unsubstatiated, fabricated nonsense

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Have you got a source for any of this?

Read any of Terence and Dennis' books or listen to their crackpot lectures on youtube.

Talk, or communicate with people who have gone to the Amazon not to abuse drugs like the McKennas and others have as tourists, but to learn about Ayahuasca and other plants/fungi from the perspective from indigenous people who have been using them for thousands of years, and know more about them than the McKennas and other charlatans ever will. Or talk to people who lead spiritual or religious ceremonies with Ayahuasca, psilocybin, or San Pedro in countries where it is legal to do this, these people do not like frauds like McKenna and others who go to their country to abuse ayahuasca, and promote tourism mainly so others will do the same.

A simple Google search will show you the many ayahuasca tourist groups and ayahuasca resorts Dennis is highly affiliated with, and they are not that well run or organized at all, and are mainly there for rich westerners who want to pretend they are shamen run by frauds and charlatans like McKenna and others...but McKenna has to keep his brand running since nothing happened in 2012 like he and Terence swore it would with their junk pseudo-science.

 

[Rorthron]

of course not, it's all unsubstatiated, fabricated nonsense

What is quite serious is that this nonsense is actually put here by a BL moderator. Or BL moderators are now allowed to spread lies and disinformation and insult people?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

What is quite serious is that this nonsense is actually put here by a BL moderator. Or BL moderators are now allowed to spread lies and disinformation and insult people?

I am not spreading lies, disinformation, nonsense, or insulting anyone.

 

[max_freakout]

I am not spreading lies, disinformation, nonsense, or insulting anyone.

what you have said on this thread is purely unsubstantiated lies, disinformation and nonsense, with no relation to actual reality.

 

[max_freakout]

Read any of Terence and Dennis' books or listen to their crackpot lectures on youtube.

Talk, or communicate with people who have gone to the Amazon not to abuse drugs like the McKennas and others have as tourists, but to learn about Ayahuasca and other plants/fungi from the perspective from indigenous people who have been using them for thousands of years, and know more about them than the McKennas and other charlatans ever will. Or talk to people who lead spiritual or religious ceremonies with Ayahuasca, psilocybin, or San Pedro in countries where it is legal to do this, these people do not like frauds like McKenna and others who go to their country to abuse ayahuasca, and promote tourism mainly so others will do the same.

A simple Google search will show you the many ayahuasca tourist groups and ayahuasca resorts Dennis is highly affiliated with, and they are not that well run or organized at all, and are mainly there for rich westerners who want to pretend they are shamen run by frauds and charlatans like McKenna and others...but McKenna has to keep his brand running since nothing happened in 2012 like he and Terence swore it would with their junk pseudo-science.

None of this ^ nonsense corroborates any of the false claims you made earlier in the thread

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

what you have said on this thread is purely unsubstantiated lies, disinformation and nonsense, with no relation to actual reality.

No it is not, have you never read, or heard anything the McKennas have said, or researched anything abut Ayahuasca tourism, or how native people of the Amazon used Ayahuasca for thousands of years and do not abuse it or mushrooms the way the McKennas did and disrespected the native people's traditional religious ceremonies, and abused plants, and fungi, and basically started ayahuasca tourism as this is common factual knowledge about them.

But if it helps you sleep at night go ahead, and believe whatever you want.

 

[max_freakout]

used Ayahuasca for thousands of years and do not abuse it or mushrooms the way the McKennas did and disrespected the native people's traditional religious ceremonies, and abused plants, and fungi, and basically started ayahuasca tourism as this is common factual knowledge about them.

The Mckenna's never abused mushrooms or ayahuasca, and they never disrespected any native cultures, and nobody ever claimed they did.

You have made an unsubstantiated, false and nonsensical claim which bears no relation whatsoever to reality, and which has no evidence to support it.

this is common factual knowledge about them.

no it isnt, you invented these claims yourself out of thin air and there isn't any evidence to support them