Combining psychedelics with 5-MAPB

[roi]

What's your tolerance like? It definitely lasts much longer than 3 hours for me!

 

[Torresmo]

I dont take drugs very often, specially empathogens. I usually give at least one month between trips. I dont remember exactly, but when I took 5-mapb for the first time, I was at least two months without taking any MDxx/APB.
I mean, the stimulation lasts more than 3h, but the feelgood part doesnt and the comedown is somewhat harsh.
5-apb, on the other hand, lasts a lot more and the comedown is much easier.

 

[jason7]

Frankly, I wouldn't combine 5-MAPB with anything because if the stuff I got is representative then it's garbage. Tried 120 mg oral with no effect other than stomach upset. Few days later tried snorting a fair sized pile and got nothing but burn. Don't even waste your money on this shit, seriously.

 

[Si Dread]

Your supplier has let you down Jason. I was very obviously affected, & later crippled, by doses of little more than 10mg insufflated, totalling not more than 60mg per sesh. In retrospect, I wish I'd got some of your bunk shite instead. If there is even the remotest chance that you might suffer anything like the fresh-fried HELL I went through after takng 5-mapb, you've dodged one hell of a bullet.

See, every cloud has a silver lining mate

 

[jason7]

Your supplier has let you down Jason. I was very obviously affected, & later crippled, by doses of little more than 10mg insufflated, totalling not more than 60mg per sesh. In retrospect, I wish I'd got some of your bunk shite instead. If there is even the remotest chance that you might suffer anything like the fresh-fried HELL I went through after takng 5-mapb, you've dodged one hell of a bullet.

See, every cloud has a silver lining mate

Yeah I know, I read your posts but unfortunately I didn't get that far in my reading until I already ordered some. I only read the early good reports in Erowid. Made it sound like all peaches and cream but then later the side effects started cropping up as in your case. So yeah, I'm actually lucky it didn't effect me at all. I'll just chuck the rest out and write it off as a bad buying decision, which is getting to be a very long list actually.

 

[roi]

Currently coming down from a nice evening with close friends on 5-MAPB, 2-FMA, 2-FA, 4-HO-MET, BB-22, PX-1, a little bit of alcohol and tobacco. Great times all around, would recommend

 

[jason7]

I don't know. 5-MAPB is said to be the strongest 5-HT2b agonist yet found, stronger than ones specifically synthesized for that purpose, and that's the one with bad health effects like heart valve problems. It also apparently messes up your serotonin levels which then causes the SSRI withdrawal type effects like brain zaps and depression. Considering that real MDMA actually costs less than 5-MAPB and has fewer negative side effects reported I'd say what's the point in buying 5-MAPB? It's supposedly less neurotoxic than MDMA but it hasn'rt really been tested to verify that, it's just theoretical, and in the real world MDMA users have not been found to have neurotoxic effects like in monkeys anyway. They do have dopamine depletion though, so heavy use is inadvisable.

If someone wanted to do an ecstasy type compound I think they would probably be best off using the real item, since so far the RC alternatives all seem to be even worse. MDMA is very cheap and available right now. I actually have 2 free grams coming as a sample with something else I ordered. Not much reason to resort to shitty RCs.

 

[roi]

Considering that real MDMA actually costs less than 5-MAPB

This is borderline price discussion, but let's just say that legal chemicals (especially in bulk) are always cheaper than illegal ones.

It also apparently messes up your serotonin levels which then causes the SSRI withdrawal type effects like brain zaps and depression.

[citation needed]. Anyway, who thinks it is a good idea to binge on serotonin releasers?

It's supposedly less neurotoxic than MDMA but it hasn'rt really been tested to verify that

5-MAPB doesn't create a alpha-methyldopamine metabolite, which seems to be responsible for a good part of MDMAs neurotoxicity.

and in the real world MDMA users have not been found to have neurotoxic effects like in monkeys anyway

I highly doubt this is true. MDMAs neurotoxicity is well known. The term "e-tard" exists for a reason

If someone wanted to do an ecstasy type compound I think they would probably be best off using the real item

You can't just legally order MDMA online! 5-MAPB however (at least in most countries)..

Not much reason to resort to shitty RCs.

How can you say that? Have you even tried 5-MAPB?

 

[Si Dread]

How can you say that? Have you even tried 5-MAPB?

I have, & I can assure you citation or no citation, that 5-mapb utterly fucked up my serotonin system & it has yet, more than 18 months after the fact, to fully repair.

The only obvious reason to use 5-mapb over MDMA is the legality. After 30 years of experience with more drugs than I can count, 5-mapb is the only one to have brought lasting, possibly permanent damage to my health. I am not the sort to start ranting against drugs, but I sure as hell am happy as fuck to rant against this shit.

Sorry for the rant

 

[roi]

How much did you take, and how did you measure the "damage done" to your serotonin system?

 

[jason7]

It's not just Ingwe, the same things have happened to other people, though maybe not as severely. MDMA has some side effects for sure with heavy use, like memory loss and dopamine depletion, which makes you unable to feel joy and pretty much emotionless. I'm not suggesting anyone use MDMA, just that with a choice between MDMA and 5-MAPB they would probably be safer with MDMA. If 5-MAPB was very cheap then there might be a reason to choose it but it's not even. Which is worse, possible neurotoxicity or definite probability of severe long term serotonin disruption? I guess you could take your choice.

MDMA neurotoxicity is apparently related to the temperature of the place you're in. If temperature is reasonably low there is no neurotoxicity but if it's hot there will be. Therefore, don't go to a hot dance club and engage in a lot of physical activity which will heat you up even more. Temps over 24 C are bad http://www.jneurosci.org/content/18/13/5086.short

 

[Torresmo]

Si Ingwe, have you ever lab tested this 5-mapb you had?

 

[jason7]

MDMA and amphetamine itself cause neurotoxicity only when the body temperature increases, which is caused by vasoconstriction;

MDMA interferes with the body’s ability to regulate temperature. This is because it causes vasoconstriction, where the blood vessels closest to the skin constrict, preventing the body from ridding itself of excess heat. Hyperthermia can occur, which is where the body overheats. This can be controlled by staying hydrated and taking breaks from physical activity. If hyperthermia occurs, cease physical activity immediately, and apply cool (but not freezing cold) flannels to the forehead, chest and groin. http://disregardeverythingisay.com/...potential-negative-effects-of-mdma-and-how-to

Motherwort tincture is a natural antiserotenergic and causes vasodilation, so maybe if people took 20 drops of Motherwort tincture before MDMA they could avoid most of the hazards. I don't know if it would kill the high or not but I'll test it out when I get some MDMA.

 

[Xorkoth]

FYI, MDMA's neurotoxocity is largely caused by one of its metabolites, alpha-methyldopamine, which causes damage to neurons.

 

[Si Dread]

How much did you take, and how did you measure the "damage done" to your serotonin system?

I took too much, but it wasn't that much. I was struck down by an acute, debilitating three day illness characterised by pretty much every symptom described on the Wiki page for SSRI discnontinuation syndrome. I found the page after the illness because I was unable to use the laptop or read anything, or watch TV. I suffered Brain Zaps the severity of which I have rarely even heard described, nausea, vomitting, vertigo, insomnia, tearfulness, lost appetite, depression, anxiety etc etc My symoptoms were so severe that I was trapped in the bed for 3 days, suffered for a week, & have still not entirely recoverd more than 18 months later. I have given up serotonergic stiimulants for the forseeable future - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome

I've posted about it many times, search my posts & threads. I don't post many threads.

No, I have not had the compound tested. Not a bad idea now Wedinos is about. But my material did come from a highly reputed UK vendor & I don't have much doubt as to it's ID.

 

[MundaneDivinity]

But my material did come from a highly reputed UK vendor & I don't have much doubt as to it's ID.

I feel for you and obviously I have no evidence to refute that 5-MAPB is as harmful as you say so I always suggest that people should be extra cautious with it, but wasn't your bad experience from an early batch and aren't even the most reputable, highly visible UK vendors somewhat notorious for selling mislabeled RCs early in their availability? I'm not trying to be disingenuous (I'm relatively new to the scene and from the US), that's just the impression I've gotten from reading some of the old B&Ds here. I really wish you or someone else had a saved sample from those early negative reactions for testing, because they do seem to have been isolated incidents (unless there are ongoing cases that I'm unaware of, jason7's atypical reaction aside).

 

[Si Dread]

I feel for you and obviously I have no evidence to refute that 5-MAPB is as harmful as you say so I always suggest that people should be extra cautious with it, but wasn't your bad experience from an early batch and aren't even the most reputable, highly visible UK vendors somewhat notorious for selling mislabeled RCs early in their availability? I'm not trying to be disingenuous (I'm relatively new to the scene and from the US), that's just the impression I've gotten from reading some of the old B&Ds here. I really wish you or someone else had a saved sample from those early negative reactions for testing, because they do seem to have been isolated incidents (unless there are ongoing cases that I'm unaware of, jason7's atypical reaction aside).

There's another well known RC HR discussion site which I can't link to because it includes vendor info. But when 5-mapb was legal they ran a poll & only a third of users had taken the drug without some sort of adverse side effect by the time it had been around for 6 months or so. There appeared little correlation between dosing & problems, meaning problems appeared at all doses & in differing intensities. The material was obviously coming from at least a few different vendors by then but who's to say if they weren't all supplied by some bulk supplier/importer.

The really big but is this. I have been around drugs all my adult lfe. I've been using stimulants, psychedelics & MDMA cautiously & successfully for 30 years without encountering anything even slightly close to the kind of problems I found with 5-mapb.

I'm not here to tell anyone what to take & what not to take. I support any drugs usage anyone chooses to engage in provided it harms no-one but themselves. I tell my story simply as a warning not to treat 5-mapb like MDMA, because that's what I did & I'm still bloody paying for it. I blame myself entirely.

 

[Torresmo]

There's another well known RC HR discussion site which I can't link to because it includes vendor info. But when 5-mapb was legal they ran a poll & only a third of users had taken the drug without some sort of adverse side effect by the time it had been around for 6 months or so. There appeared little correlation between dosing & problems, meaning problems appeared at all doses & in differing intensities. The material was obviously coming from at least a few different vendors by then but who's to say if they weren't all supplied by some bulk supplier/importer.

The really big but is this. I have been around drugs all my adult lfe. I've been using stimulants, psychedelics & MDMA cautiously & successfully for 30 years without encountering anything even slightly close to the kind of problems I found with 5-mapb.

I'm not here to tell anyone what to take & what not to take. I support any drugs usage anyone chooses to engage in provided it harms no-one but themselves. I tell my story simply as a warning not to treat 5-mapb like MDMA, because that's what I did & I'm still bloody paying for it. I blame myself entirely.

What I mean is it may be something else that you took. I read your story at the main thread, it is a very scary one, indeed, but dont you think it is strange that you and that other guy were the only ones to have such a bad reaction (in bl at least)?
And you didnt even abuse it so much, we have seen people take 5-mapb much more recklessly around here.
That is why I think you got a bad batch somehow, maybe even another drug (a pretty evil one).

It is also possible that somehow only some people will react like this to the drug. So yeah, i guess we will never know for sure until someone tests that specific batch.

 

[MundaneDivinity]

It sounds like the issues are a little more widespread than I thought. It makes me wonder how a similar survey would turn out here now that it's been around longer. I'd also be interested to see if negative reactions were more severe in individuals with a long history of using similar drugs. I've had some minor problems resulting from abuse of 5/6-(M)APB over the last year, but I've been mostly clean for close to 15 years. I'm glad you're recovering. It sucks that it's been such a long road!

 

[Kl519]

I've taken miprocin in combo with 5 mapb just once a few months ago, and it was kind of useless so I didn't bother exploring it further.

Dosage:
4 ho mipt- 20mg
5 mapb- 150mg

I capped them, and took the 5 mapb an hour before the miprocin because the former has a long come up. In short, the miprocin overpowered the 5 mapb like putting a rug over a carpet stain. I felt it, but miprocin has a powerful high by itself. That effect was nystagmus + miprocin, therefore it was a waste of a dose. For whatever reason, the same dosage level of 5 mapb is stronger on its own during my experience. I speculate that actual mdma will synergize better with these kinds of trypts, if only because that combo was pretty pathetic for me and I've had real nice mdma combos.

I wonder what WILL actually combo with 5 mapb with great results? That's all I'm going to use it for here on out. Here's hoping that someone will discover a great mixing partner with 5 mapb.