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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Codeine Extraction - Part II

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TripppAR said:
I have honestly been sceptical about the whole ceiling dose. I think its a myth that is kept going by codeine users. I see it referenced alot on bluelight. On many occasions i have had different effects from different level. I.e 600 feels better then 4... but mayb eim different. BUt i think it comes down to poor extractions and people just balming a ceiling dose for lack of effects.

"Codeine is metabolized to C6G by uridine diphosphate glucuronosyl transferase (UGT) 2B7, and, since only about 5% of codeine is metabolized by cytochrome P450 CYP2D6, the current evidence is that C6G is the primary active compound.[6] Claims about the supposed "ceiling effect" of codeine doses seemed to rest on the assumption that high doses of codeine saturated CYP2D6, which prevented further conversion of codeine to morphine, which is simply incorrect." - Scientific Explorers - 2009 Issue 46#
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can you elaborate a bit more in a way that makes sense? stating that a 600mg dose gets you higher than a 400mg - of course, only makes sense to me - or it(codeine) otherwise having different effects on different levels (doesn't differ from any other codeine user, i've had many different results too) to yourself and highlighting a little bit of a quote from an article which doesn't make any sense to me (quoting randoms parts of articles never does, it helps to be in context with what you're arguing) nor has it disproved anything.

lol yes, The Bluelighters Codeine Conspiracy Theory
 
Ive upped my dose to 460mg and i think it all comes down to how well the extraction is performed. That 460mg in reality can be anywhere from a very minimal amount to 460mg. Same goes with 600mg which can in fact be for example alot less than say 400mg which explains why it feels alot weaker sometimes. It also comes down to natural and your usage tolerance as well.
 
how wld u differentiate a good extraction from a shit one , like technique wise

coz i kno exactly what ur sayin but im prety sure i do it exactly same everytime

cld just depend on brand maybe?
 
I'd say the biggest difference is leaving it to drain long enough, and squeezing it out afterwards to get the last remains of codeine from it.
 
leigh12 said:
how wld u differentiate a good extraction from a shit one , like technique wise

coz i kno exactly what ur sayin but im prety sure i do it exactly same everytime

cld just depend on brand maybe?
Click to expand...

I was waiting for this question. It depends on a numerous things like brand, how it is filtered, how long it has been cooled for and also water type. Sometimes the water can be contaminated thus containing things that mite react with the codeine itself. When adding water to it its best to leave it to set on room temp for a while so it will be room temp then to chill.

They key is to cool it gradually. I find that if i dont stir it after taking it out of the fridge and then filter half of it, it works alot better. Not too sure how stable codeine is when mixed but im certain that a minimal amount can get destroyed.
 
Interesting quote trippAR... I'm not 100% convinced though. I mean it's well documented that people lacking CYP2D6 for genetic reasons are poor metabolisers of codeine and hence don't get the same pain relief from it as the rest of the population right?

Also it looks word for word quoted from wiki which has the references for that paragraph as:

Armstrong SC, Cozza KL (2003). "Pharmacokinetic drug interactions of morphine, codeine, and their derivatives: theory and clinical reality, Part II". Psychosomatics 44 (6): 515–20., Fernandes LC, Kilicarslan T, Kaplan HL, Tyndale RF, Sellers EM, Romach MK (June 2002). "Treatment of codeine dependence with inhibitors of cytochrome P450 2D6". J Clin Psychopharmacol 22 (3): 326–9. and Kathiramalainathan K, Kaplan HL, Romach MK, et al. (August 2000). "Inhibition of cytochrome P450 2D6 modifies codeine abuse liability". J Clin Psychopharmacol 20 (4): 435–44.

Not from "Scientific Explorers - 2009 Issue 46#"

Personally I wouldn't go taking higher doses trying to prove or disprove the theory behind a ceiling effect. The histamine reaction, potential for respiratory depression, and amount of paracetamol/ibuprofen getting through the CWE are enough to discourage me.

Stay safe kids! =D
 
^
If you're using a codeine/ibuprofen preparation and as long as your remaining solution is kind of clear (no particles floating around or resting at the bottom) you should be fine if you're worried about too much of the unwanted stuff getting through. I only use the codeine/ibuprofen brands because ibuprofen seems to not be as toxic as paracetamol in equivalent doses for higher dose CWEs and it's also much less soluble in water.

Every source I've seen states ibuprofen's solubility in water as (<1mg/mL). So even if you were to end up with a massive 600mL solution that had the solid gunk filtered out of it, that's still <600mg of ibuprofen in the solution which is a safe dose to consume. And a normal CWE will be alot less than 600mL anyway.

Ibuprofen is a white powder with a melting point of 74-77° C and is very slightly soluble in water (< 1 mg/mL) and readily soluble in organic solvents such as ethanol and acetone.
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Taken from - http://www.rxlist.com/ibuprofen-drug.htm

According to wiki, paracetamol is a bit more soluble in water (14mg/mL) which makes it more risky for larger extractions. Just make sure for ibuprofen brands to filter it properly and only a very small % of it should get through the CWE.
 
^yeah i agree that using the codeine/ibuprofen combinations should be favoured by those who are extracting daily or multiple times daily because of those couple reasons.

has anyone ever found like a tangy/acidic taste to the solution if they've extracted from ibuprofen containing pills? thats the best i can describe it as, it kind of burns the back of my tongue on ocassions and leaves a weird taste.
 
^ I have never noticed a tangy tase, funny I am actually startin to notice a sweet aftertaste after I down the mixture that I never used to notice. I have tasted this while using various brands.

I often use codeine with another seasoned user and they have not been able to detect the sweet taste even though we were using the same pills and I did their extraction for them using the same materials and process. I have noticed it with ibu and para pills.

It has been tripping me out a bit as to what it could be and why I never noticed it before, doesn't really phase me though as I would rather have a sweet aftertaste than the usual bitter one.

Leigh it would seem like maybe your right about it being the travalcam. I dosed codeine last night and decided to try it with stilnox instead of my usual benzo. I used restavit as my antihistamine and didn't end up all incoherent like last week. I figure if stilnox didn't put me in that shit babbling state and the only difference is travalcam it must be that. I am just kind of amazed at the incredible difference between one and two travalcams.

By the way, was my first time combining stilnox and codeine last night and it was nothing spectacular. Much better off to stick with a benzo and save stilnox for combining with weed and/or moderate amounts of alcohol for recreation.

In regards to the ceiling dose I have read reports of people who think they get better effects off higher doses. I don't think 600mg is a good example when referring to CWE as there are obviously some losses in there, I only ever do 600mg and definately feel it better than when I used to do 480mg but that could easily just be because of losses in the procedure so only by starting with 600mg do you actually hit the ceiling.

I dosed 800mg once and it hit me good but since it was my third dose that week and I was on various other drugs at the time it is hard to comment if it worked better than 600mg would of.

It would be great if someone wanted to play guinea pig, I might do it again one of these days. I just don't want to waste codeine unnecessarily because I am trying to stock up before May 1st.
 
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^
I've never dosed higher than 600mg. I imagine the side effects would start increasing faster than the high would as the dose gets bigger and bigger.

Had that strange taste sometimes, it's different to the usual bitter water taste and leaves an aftertaste in my mouth too. Dunno what it could be from, I'm leaning towards the binders or a coating on the tablets/caplets.

I've also had that burning feeling in the back of my throat, sometimes it stays for a while. On one occasion my throat felt dry and a bit sore for around 24 hours after, felt like I'd lost my voice. Most of the time it just doesn't taste that great, I don't find it too bad though.

Do you ever get that feeling in your throat from paracetamol tabs? Hopin it's not a bad sign to do with the ibuprofen.
 
no, it's only ever the ibuprofen containing formulations.

i get that dry feeling as well, usually a sip of OJ clears most of the taste up but have to sip on water to keep it from feeling dry. never had it last 24 hours though, usually no more then an hour after ingestion. it's just the taste that is a little disturbing and makes me gag on occasion.
 
Hmm, all very interesting!

I'm happy at my level of 400mg. I've only dosed higher once, which was quite early on in my extraction-relationship, lol..

I've had that strange taste too but only 4-6 times, I usually take another vodka shot which elminates that pretty quick smart, hehe. Puckboy - the first time I used codeine I had that dry/sore throat thing and it freaked me out haha but haven't had it since.

May 1st is going to SUCK!
 
I have never gotten a terribly dry throat from drinking CWE. I also am thinking it must be some kind of binder that is causing the sweet aftertaste I notice but its just weird that it isn't common.
 
This whole enzyme differentiation is much different to that which i was aware of.

I was always under the impression that Codeine was primarily metabolized by CYP2D6, and that poor producers of 2D6 also got poor effect from codeine.

Also, as far as ceiling doses go, i found that it was more tollerance, and it got to a point that NO DOSE of codeine would provide the high i was after. 400mg-600mg no difference in effect - this is with tried and true extraction methods that worked well.

Heroin or Oxycodone however is still effective... not as much as it was, but none the less still useful
 
Can I leave codeine solution for few hours?
I can prepare it now, but I'll have to wait like 5h.
 
Guys for the sake of harm reduction could I suggest we not encourage people to be taking 600-800mg + doses? If a first time user took that much they could end up pretty sick or bright red with a head the size of a balloon and uncontrollable itching if they had a bad histamine reaction.... I know you might be fine with it and tolerance and experience with opiates are going to be contributing factors but it can't hurt to be cautious :)
 
drug_mentor said:
^ I have never noticed a tangy tase, funny I am actually startin to notice a sweet aftertaste after I down the mixture that I never used to notice. I have tasted this while using various brands.

I often use codeine with another seasoned user and they have not been able to detect the sweet taste even though we were using the same pills and I did their extraction for them using the same materials and process. I have noticed it with ibu and para pills.

It has been tripping me out a bit as to what it could be and why I never noticed it before, doesn't really phase me though as I would rather have a sweet aftertaste than the usual bitter one.

Leigh it would seem like maybe your right about it being the travalcam. I dosed codeine last night and decided to try it with stilnox instead of my usual benzo. I used restavit as my antihistamine and didn't end up all incoherent like last week. I figure if stilnox didn't put me in that shit babbling state and the only difference is travalcam it must be that. I am just kind of amazed at the incredible difference between one and two travalcams.

By the way, was my first time combining stilnox and codeine last night and it was nothing spectacular. Much better off to stick with a benzo and save stilnox for combining with weed and/or moderate amounts of alcohol for recreation.

In regards to the ceiling dose I have read reports of people who think they get better effects off higher doses. I don't think 600mg is a good example when referring to CWE as there are obviously some losses in there, I only ever do 600mg and definately feel it better than when I used to do 480mg but that could easily just be because of losses in the procedure so only by starting with 600mg do you actually hit the ceiling.

I dosed 800mg once and it hit me good but since it was my third dose that week and I was on various other drugs at the time it is hard to comment if it worked better than 600mg would of.

It would be great if someone wanted to play guinea pig, I might do it again one of these days. I just don't want to waste codeine unnecessarily because I am trying to stock up before May 1st.
Click to expand...


yeh the stilnox always either overpowered the codeine or vice versa for me
 
belarki said:
Guys for the sake of harm reduction could I suggest we not encourage people to be taking 600-800mg + doses? If a first time user took that much they could end up pretty sick or bright red with a head the size of a balloon and uncontrollable itching if they had a bad histamine reaction.... I know you might be fine with it and tolerance and experience with opiates are going to be contributing factors but it can't hurt to be cautious :)
Click to expand...

Absolutely, if a first timer with little to no opiate tolerance were to dose 600-800mg+ they could potentially end up more then just sick, they could end up dead. Alot of sources state the LD50 for codeine in an average non-tolerant person as 800mg. 100-200mg is plenty to start with IMO.
 
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