Codeine (560 mg) - Experienced - Nothing much

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

I can't take any snri, ssri antidepressants because of bad side effect so I don't get why I could handle tramadol

Bassicly few years ago I took them and had engery to tidy, clean, was chatty, felt happy, no anxiety, no depression, at the start it was the best anxiety drug I'd ever had, then when the hyper side wore off after a few hours and I'd start to gouch out, you call it nodding I think, but tolerence soon built up and coming off them is a bitch, it's like coming off opioids and antidepressants at same time

So I tried them again not long ago and they was fucking awful they made me on edge, fast heart, jittery, anxous and yeah flushed them fuckers away lol

 

[supersonic89]

I can't take any snri, ssri antidepressants because of bad side effect so I don't get why I could handle tramadol

Bassicly few years ago I took them and had engery to tidy, clean, was chatty, felt happy, no anxiety, no depression, at the start it was the best anxiety drug I'd ever had, then when the hyper side wore off after a few hours and I'd start to gouch out, you call it nodding I think, but tolerence soon built up and coming off them is a bitch, it's like coming off opioids and antidepressants at same time

So I tried them again not long ago and they was fucking awful they made me on edge, fast heart, jittery, anxous and yeah flushed them fuckers away lol

Yep. Tramadol withdrawal is HARD. I only thought about killing myself.

But I found out, venlafaxine is great for tramadol withdrawal. I think venlafaxine + loperamide is the way to go.

 

[plumbus-nine]

coming off them is a bitch, it's like coming off opioids and antidepressants at same time

That. And they continue to say it's just discontinuation syndrome, only light and transient, not withdrawal because not addictive, blah blah.

Withdrawal = from drugs one likes
Discontinuation = the same just from drugs one doesn't like consciously

I'd rather take morphine again than a SSRI if I ever manage to really quit them for good. They gave me them like candies for social anxiety when I wasn't depressed at all but when stopping then I get really deeply depressed now, and restless, diarrhea, shivers, sweating, horrific dysphoria, minutes turn into hours into days of which I never made more than two or three and when then most of the time tossing around in bed.. 5-HTP can take a bit of the edge of, pregabalin too (which somewhat confirms me that the brain zaps indeed are mini seizures).. maybe stimulants might work but caffeine is horrific, and nicotine exacerbates the zaps.

I'd vote for to schedule antipsychotics into the highest restriction and antidepressants in the normal schedule but take amphetamine, MDMA and shrooms etc. out just regular Rx.

 

[plumbus-nine]

But I found out, venlafaxine is great for tramadol withdrawal. I think venlafaxine + loperamide is the way to go.

Venlafaxine causes similar withdrawal itself. I'd rather use kratom and taper down. Yeah, lope helps quite a bit, as does propranolol or clonidine if you need something strong. Pregabalin is very effective and causes only minor w/d itself when tapered.

 

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

venlafaxine

I can't take antidepressants, I'm actually banned from them from my doctors they are to scared to prescribe them to me because of the bad side effects they all give me, had serotonin syndrome twice once from sertraline and then from higher dose of mirtazapine believe it or not

 

[plumbus-nine]

I can't take antidepressants, I'm actually banned from them from my doctors they are to scared to prescribe them to me because of the bad side effects they all give me, had serotonin syndrome twice once from sertraline and then from higher dose of mirtazapine believe it or not

Oh I believe it.. mirtazapine isn't a SSRI but it too causes brain zaps which are the hallmark for serotonergic withdrawal. You're lucky to have doctors which respect your individual reactions to drugs

Are you depressed, or was the intent to treat anxiety? In the latter case I'd strongly advise against anyways. But if you want something mild but still effective you might wanna give polygala tenuifola a try. I didn't yet but it's on the list, pills (10:1 extract) already here. The only plant based one which has loads of glowing reports.

For anxiety, really, very low dose deschloroketamine - it's superior to K by far, less body load and longer half life, two doses a day are enough, maybe one. Or memantine, if you're not an ADHD person because its D2 agonism exacerbates this at least in me but its still nice from times to times because of the detachment w/o any trippy features. Oh, I also get anxiolysis from stimulants but most are too speedy. Dopamine agonists can do good,

 

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

mirtazapine isn't a SSRI

Its a Nassa

You're lucky to have doctor

Yes but they also won't prescribe anything for my anxiety or fibromyalgia

Are you depressed, or was the intent to treat anxiety?

Both, but sometimes when I only had anxiety they gave me antidepressants then when I came off them I was depressed

But if you want something mild but still effective you might wanna give polygala tenuifola a try. I didn't yet but it's on the list, pills (10:1 extract) already here. The only plant based one which has loads of glowing reports

Never heard of it, I'll look up polygala

For anxiety, really, very low dose deschloroketamine

Can't get it, can't even get decent K let alone RC and K analogues

memantine

Something else I want to try but can't get lol

w/o any trippy features

Maybe I won't bother I like trippyness lol

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah tramadol like its cousin venlafaxine is quite potent inhibitor of CYP2D6, the one responsible for the conversion to morphine. That's just less than half of the effects tho, codeine-6-gluconate (or -3-, forgot) is pretty strong analgesic too.

Do you really get something out of tramadol? Even without any tolerance (was taking venlafaxine though which is more similar than people think) I didn't feel a thing off 500mg's, didn't want to go higher because of seizure risk. O-desmethyltramadol was nice. Maybe I'm just deficit of 2D6 (which happens to also convert tram to O-DSMT - which is responsible for the euphoria, in terms of analgesia there was no or little difference between poor and extensive metabolizers so the metabolite isn't required. Venlafaxine for sure is some wicked weird opioid because it causes a similar withdrawal like morphine. Avoid it if possible.

Some people are efficient metabolizers of tramadol to O-desmethyltramadol and they get a lot from it. Personally I can take 500mg of tramadol and get an inferior opiate high with some SNRI properties, never had any seizure-like activity either. My friend, though, even as a massive opiate addict, would get tramadols when he couldn't get heroin and he said the one time he took 200mg, he started shaking and got scared to death. 150mg is the absolute max he would take. He'd take 100mg and be grinning and even nodding a bit sometimes. And this is a guy who could take more heroin than me, and I'm an opiate hardhead. He thought I was some sort of mutant since I could take so much tramadol. But it just doesn't do it for me.

 

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

He'd take 100mg and be grinning and even nodding a bit sometimes. And this is a guy who could take more heroin than me, and I'm an opiate hardhead

Lucky asshole and wtaf how does that even work, a heroin addict getting fucked on 100mg of tramadol lol

 

[plumbus-nine]

My friend, though, even as a massive opiate addict, would get tramadols when he couldn't get heroin and he said the one time he took 200mg, he started shaking and got scared to death. 150mg is the absolute max he would take. He'd take 100mg and be grinning and even nodding a bit sometimes. And this is a guy who could take more heroin than me, and I'm an opiate hardhead. He thought I was some sort of mutant since I could take so much tramadol. But it just doesn't do it for me.

Wow, that's an exception indeed. While O-DSMT indeed was able to bring on effects comparable to 30mg methadone (acutely; in substituted users it builds up a bit) but with a more monoaminergic signature (I'd even say it remains some of its parents serotonergic activity but maybe indirectly so, it doesn't bind to SERT), I don't seem to produce relevant amounts of it by using the prodrug. Plain venlafaxine is almost similar in that it takes lingering but not acute withdrawal away (maybe all stronger SSRIs will do, fluoxetine has been shown to offer some protection, but I believe there's just the 5ht2c antagonism which causes a relevant increase in dopamine, of which one is depleted during withdrawal). Just that venla is more potent and more potent at the monoamine sites weight-by-weight.

Weird enough that the seizures don't necessarily seem to be NE related but I'd say an excess of NE definitely increases seizure risk, but these seizures would be full ones not shaking hands a la too much lyrica, there I'd get it pretty strong when using 1.5+g but it isn't dangerous. Maybe the drug offers protection by other mechanism against its own seizurogenic activity tho.

But I loved DXM, and got strong dissociative like effects out of lowerish dosages, which should indicate that I'm one of the extensive metabolizer, not ultra rapid but not slow either. Also codeine worked even while on venlafaiine but as said it doesn't need morphine for to show some activity, maybe when 2D6 is blocked you get more of 3-glucoronid instead.

Would love to experiment with a 2D6 inducer but don't know of such one. Maybe this enzyme isn't inducable like 3A4?
Also is it (technically) possible to do liver enzymatic metabolism in-vitro, by applying isolated enzymes (will be difficult to conserve them I guess) or by using some correct agents? I read of somebody who synthed DXO out of DXM, even got it analyzed where it came out as pure (yet didn't mention whether he had an analytical sample to compare to or if it was just something pure) and didn't get any expected effects from it but a weird droning sound which kept lingering over the next months...scary and from own experiences I'd absolutely buy that DXM relatives can be pretty fucked up in a toxic sense as it's the only compound out of the uncounted ones I know of which acutely and reliably induces hearing voices.. yet logic tells me it just was something different..

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Some people are efficient metabolizers of tramadol to O-desmethyltramadol and they get a lot from it. Personally I can take 500mg of tramadol and get an inferior opiate high with some SNRI properties, never had any seizure-like activity either. My friend, though, even as a massive opiate addict, would get tramadols when he couldn't get heroin and he said the one time he took 200mg, he started shaking and got scared to death. 150mg is the absolute max he would take. He'd take 100mg and be grinning and even nodding a bit sometimes. And this is a guy who could take more heroin than me, and I'm an opiate hardhead. He thought I was some sort of mutant since I could take so much tramadol. But it just doesn't do it for me.

Tramadol never did anything for me, but 50mg of O-desmethytramadol orally was fuckin beautiful...

 

[Ganjcat]

I was prescribed them for pain, back pain before I got diagnosed with fibromyalgia, and it didn't help my pain, but here's what's strange, Zapain which is 30mg codeine and 500mg paracetamol helps my pain, I read on Bluelight ages ago someone mentioning paracetamol helps the codiene kick in, and for me codiene alone don't help my fibromyalgia but 2 x Zapain does, but paracetamol alone doesn't help at all

I used to purposely dissolve all but 2-5 cocodomal tabs to swallow with my cwe or to have with the tiny pure ones

 

[Ganjcat]

Wow, that's an exception indeed. While O-DSMT indeed was able to bring on effects comparable to 30mg methadone (acutely; in substituted users it builds up a bit) but with a more monoaminergic signature (I'd even say it remains some of its parents serotonergic activity but maybe indirectly so, it doesn't bind to SERT), I don't seem to produce relevant amounts of it by using the prodrug. Plain venlafaxine is almost similar in that it takes lingering but not acute withdrawal away (maybe all stronger SSRIs will do, fluoxetine has been shown to offer some protection, but I believe there's just the 5ht2c antagonism which causes a relevant increase in dopamine, of which one is depleted during withdrawal). Just that venla is more potent and more potent at the monoamine sites weight-by-weight.

Weird enough that the seizures don't necessarily seem to be NE related but I'd say an excess of NE definitely increases seizure risk, but these seizures would be full ones not shaking hands a la too much lyrica, there I'd get it pretty strong when using 1.5+g but it isn't dangerous. Maybe the drug offers protection by other mechanism against its own seizurogenic activity tho.

But I loved DXM, and got strong dissociative like effects out of lowerish dosages, which should indicate that I'm one of the extensive metabolizer, not ultra rapid but not slow either. Also codeine worked even while on venlafaiine but as said it doesn't need morphine for to show some activity, maybe when 2D6 is blocked you get more of 3-glucoronid instead.

Would love to experiment with a 2D6 inducer but don't know of such one. Maybe this enzyme isn't inducable like 3A4?
Also is it (technically) possible to do liver enzymatic metabolism in-vitro, by applying isolated enzymes (will be difficult to conserve them I guess) or by using some correct agents? I read of somebody who synthed DXO out of DXM, even got it analyzed where it came out as pure (yet didn't mention whether he had an analytical sample to compare to or if it was just something pure) and didn't get any expected effects from it but a weird droning sound which kept lingering over the next months...scary and from own experiences I'd absolutely buy that DXM relatives can be pretty fucked up in a toxic sense as it's the only compound out of the uncounted ones I know of which acutely and reliably induces hearing voices.. yet logic tells me it just was something different..

I've said it before and I'll say it again tramadol is a nasty drug the doctors know this and will be reluctant to keep a young and healthy person on them long term there are better options!

 

[Ganjcat]

Tramadol never did anything for me, but 50mg of O-desmethytramadol orally was fuckin beautiful...

What's the difference?? Wait what is O-desmethytramadol am I missing something

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

What's the difference?? Wait what is O-desmethytramadol am I missing something

Tramadol is a pro-drug for O-desmethyltramadol - I.e. enzymes in the liver convert tramadol to O-dsmt which is the main active metabolite and is responsible for the opiate effects. The problem with tramadol is that is also converts to other active metabolites with SNRI activity which can lower the seizure threshold, hence why there is a maximum recommended dose of 400mg.

But O-dsmt is a bloody good opiate which is devoid of the SNRI activity and was/is available on the RC scene.

When I first came off methadone I was gifted a g of this stuff. 50mg under the tongue was as good as any heroin I'd had for years.

 

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

I used to purposely dissolve all but 2-5 cocodomal tabs to swallow with my cwe or to have with the tiny pure ones

CWE is the most rank tasting shit and I still drank it knowing it probably won't do fuck all lol

 

[Hippy Flower Fairy]

But O-dsmt is a bloody good opiate which is devoid of the SNRI activity and was/is available on the RC scene

Tapentadol also has much less effect on serotonin but still has the norepinephrine activity

And Tapentadol is stronger on the opioid receptors so much better than Tramadol but now I want to try O-dsmt lol

 

[plumbus-nine]

Tapentadol is mostly NEergic yeah but O-DSMT too, only tramadol itself is a SNRI with like 10fold selectivity to the SERT (note that this is affinity and doesn't equal to a said dose = 100% SERT and 10% NET, I don't understand yet how you calculate this).

I suspect that most people only form insignificant amounts of O-DSMT out of tolerable dosages, at least when using within the seizure safe range of dosages. Poor 2D6 metabolizers didn't show differencies in terms of analgesia when compared to extensive ones, only the rapid will get significantly more out of any dose.

They should bring back fencamfamine. Stimulants (e.g. amphetamine, prolintan) are solid analgesics on their own (as long as not over-used in terms of dosage/tolerance) and significantly boost opioids, this is good because stim withdrawal is much less painful and coming off a combined stim+opioiod should help against the usual restlessness many experience during withdrawal (this is NE recovering at different rates than DA I guess). A triple opioid+NDRI+NMDA antagonist would make the ultimate analgesic and might well work far below recreational dosages.. but PCP (or its sideeffects/abuse potential & the FDA's reaction to that) fucked the complete arylcyclohexylamine class for decades and Olney did add his own cents to the prohibition soup as his findings were never checked in humans, if not primates at all and we have great differencies in NMDA receptor functions, at least rats would be brain dead after using as much dissociatives as some humans tolerated w/o lasting damage. Yeah there were vacuoles in MRIs of hardcore ketamine addicts but a) did most of them (so read: any, as some will have hidden their other use) have concomittant meth use which is toxic on its own and adds to the dopamine load which will eventually cause superoxides, which are toxic in excess, and I found K, at least illicitly synthed which makes almost all what's recreationally used today, to be the most taxing disso I did by far and this are at least 10. Granted, some were heavily psychotomimetic but these effects didn't last past the drug's half life.

 

[Ganjcat]

CWE is the most rank tasting shit and I still drank it knowing it probably won't do fuck all lol

Was it milky?

 

[Ganjcat]

A good friend of mind has kindly offered to sort me some weed for getting it for him and I just gotta jump on the bus and bring it to him and I get some free weed yaaay