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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

Codeine (560 mg) - Experienced - Nothing much

supersonic89

supersonic89

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
1,249
Hi Bluelighters.

I am 32 years old and have about two years of experience with weak to medium opioids.

Sadly, I live in a country so ignorant about opioids, where tramadol is treated almost like morphine.

In 2019, I suffered a back injury and was prescribed tramadol and almost instantly, I felt in love. The bad thing is that much no longer causes me (tolerance is a bitch) and I can only venture to a few other options available here: buprenorphine, which recreationally is not a big thing but works great as a drug in case of opioid withdrawal, tapentadol, which is something similar to tramadol but it is not a prodrug and has much greater opioid activity than tramadol and codeine, which I only took in doses below 200 mg.

So this weekend I managed to find a box with 12 tablets of 30 mg of codeine in the drugstore and also a syrup with 200 mg of codeine. So tonight I'll be enjoying 560mg of codeine. A high dose but nothing compared to the 1500 mg that I have taken of tramadol or 1000 mg of tapentadol.

T + 0: 00: It's around 11pm and this is my favorite time to get high. I put it the Joker on HBO, a personal favorite. So, there's a grat ambient. During the day take 2.5 mg of alprazolam and 2 mg of clonazepam. Plus about 500 mg of tramadol. I drank all twelve tablets without problems.

T + 0: 05: I opened the codeine syrup and tasted it. To my surprise, the taste was very good. I took it almost in one gulp, since I understand that with codeine there is no problem of staggering the doses.

T + 0: 20: I don't feel much, except for an incredible itch on my head and arms. Not that nausea they talk about so much or sometimes I felt with trams. Until the euphoria, it has not arrived.

T + 0: 30: The itching still continues, although to a lesser extent. I notice a small disinhibition similar to that of a low dose of alprazolam.

T + 0: 60: The itch is definitely gone and a bit of the disinhibition too. Of euphoria, nothing yet. I had something pretty light for dinner almost three hours ago (pita bread with turkey ham and salad), so I doubt this is a factor.

T + 1: 30: The truth is that I am already losing hope a bit on this codeine thing. Maybe I don't metabolize it properly? But in that case, you would also have problems with tramadol.

T + 2: 00: I took a sip of Diet Coke, cause the syrup left my mouth very dry. The only thing I noticed at this point is a slight drowsiness.

T + 3 :00: I think at this point, it is correct to say that the experience was a total waste of money and pills. I was hoping to get a little bit of that morphine, which is achieved by metabolizing codeine. .

T + 7: 00: Upon awakening, I did not notice anything out of the ordinary, no headache or fatigue, muscle pain, dizziness, etc. Everything is normal.

This would be my experience with almost 600 mg of codeine, a fairly high dose. I do not know if I will repeat it again, because I ended up quite disappointed and apparently Codeine have a ceiling effect.

I had read many studies where it was claimed that tramadol does not have cross tolerance with other opioids, but this totally proves the opposite (at least in doses higher than one gram it is possible).

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_codeine
substancecode_opiates
explevel_experienced
exptype_neutral
roacode_oral
 
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Codeine is a pretty weak opiate, especially if you have a lot of experience and/or tolerance (your tramadol and tapentadol usage is very high so you should have a lot of tolerance buildup - and opioid tolerance never really goes away all the way once you get it). Though I'm surprised you got that little from it. Some people are better metabolizers of codeine due to enzyme presence or absence... some people metabolize it very efficiently into morphine so even a pretty low dose gets them very high, whereas others (presumably yourself, also me) don't metabolize it very efficiently so codeine doesn't quite do it for them.
 
Xorkoth said:
Codeine is a pretty weak opiate, especially if you have a lot of experience and/or tolerance (your tramadol and tapentadol usage is very high so you should have a lot of tolerance buildup - and opioid tolerance never really goes away all the way once you get it). Though I'm surprised you got that little from it. Some people are better metabolizers of codeine due to enzyme presence or absence... some people metabolize it very efficiently into morphine so even a pretty low dose gets them very high, whereas others (presumably yourself, also me) don't metabolize it very efficiently so codeine doesn't quite do it for them.
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But isn't codeine metabolized by the same enzyme that breaks down tramadol into odesmethyltramadol? Or am I totally wrong? :unsure:
 
supersonic89 said:
But isn't codeine metabolized by the same enzyme that breaks down tramadol into odesmethyltramadol? Or am I totally wrong? :unsure:
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Well its more that that amount of codeine is perhaps 80mg of morphine, which is around 800mg of tramadol (assuming 1/10th x morphine) so it might not seem to strong if you've taken 1.5g of tramadol recently.
 
negrogesic said:
Well its more that that amount of codeine is perhaps 80mg of morphine, which is around 800mg of tramadol (assuming 1/10th x morphine) so it might not seem to strong if you've taken 1.5g of tramadol recently.
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Yeah. I think you are right. And does codeine have a ceiling effect or am I wrong? Because next time maybe I will need 2 g of codeine. 🤣
 
Xorkoth said:
Codeine is a pretty weak opiate, especially if you have a lot of experience and/or tolerance (your tramadol and tapentadol usage is very high so you should have a lot of tolerance buildup - and opioid tolerance never really goes away all the way once you get it). Though I'm surprised you got that little from it. Some people are better metabolizers of codeine due to enzyme presence or absence... some people metabolize it very efficiently into morphine so even a pretty low dose gets them very high, whereas others (presumably yourself, also me) don't metabolize it very efficiently so codeine doesn't quite do it for them.
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You put codeine under the lip and once its in the blood stream its morphine use around 6/7 tablets swallow it and you waste it if your doing cold water extraction use ethanol crush the pills stir it for 30 mins and let the pactetomol settle and pour off and evaporate at a low temperature
 
supersonic89 said:
But isn't codeine metabolized by the same enzyme that breaks down tramadol into odesmethyltramadol? Or am I totally wrong? :unsure:
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Afaik it wasn't even true that the metabolism to morphine was required for analgesia - there's another major metabolite of codeine, forgot its name, which also is a potent analgesic and it is generated by an independent enzyme. Same for tramadol, while O-DSMT is a mayor factor for euphoria, CYP2D6 wasn't necessary for analgesia in some studies.

Codeine has a ceiling in regards to metabolism to morphine, yes. About analgesia I'm not sure, at least the dosages people use vary greatly and some find even from increasing 600mg to 800mg e.g. an increase in effects. Would say 2D6 is primarily responsible for unplanned intoxications from minor amounts of codeine.

Btw, I wouldn't say that opioid tolerance never goes away - there are two factors involved, tachyphylaxis (acute tolerance) and long-lived background tolerance. I was on 600mg/d morphine and didn't really feel anything anymore, so you'd say this tolerance'd be permanent but after just 3 months of lower doses it's down to 60-80mg being strongly noticeable and 180mg caused double vision and tiredness. The build-down of tolerance was pretty fast, with the aid of pregabalin just a few days until my brain re-adjusted. As they start substitution with 200mg XR morphine, I'm not even sure how much of permanent tolerance I've acquired but then again people are using ridiculously small amounts like 8-10mg morphine for pain and say it still messes with emotions and thinking. But yeah, tolerance quickly rises again to where it was before, an d my hunch is that every withdrawal will increase this a bit (I avoided w/d for at least 2 years, and my tolerance went down quickly, but every time I relapse it goes back to where it was, and w/d seems to be a bit worse than before) - implicating that you should better taper / use e.g. dissociatives instead of going cold turkey, at least kindling is a real beast.

The real bitch is PAWS - lingering withdrawal symptoms which don't go away very readily. For me even after 10 days I still had diarrhea (was using loperamide though so my intestine couldn't really recover). Bit in general it's just feeling shitty, exhausted and irritable, and that when exercising would be urgently needed for the condition to improve. Dopamine agonists seem to help somewhat but they might have a withdrawal syndrome of their own, and good luck finding a doc prescribing you some for withdrawal (the primary indication is Parkinson's). I'm right now with the aid of prolintane, pramipexole and testosterone more than 48h since last morphine dose, my nose runs a bit but I'm feeling great so far ... dopamine is a major player here.
 
Leam1312 said:
Put them under your lip and leave to dissolve you only need 4/6 tablets
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Idk I'm pretty sure it's the first time I've heard it. I was thinking maybe I should try again, but this time with at least 48 hours without taking trams, maybe my enzymes were too overloaded with my high consumption of tramadol
 
Yeah tramadol like its cousin venlafaxine is quite potent inhibitor of CYP2D6, the one responsible for the conversion to morphine. That's just less than half of the effects tho, codeine-6-gluconate (or -3-, forgot) is pretty strong analgesic too.

Do you really get something out of tramadol? Even without any tolerance (was taking venlafaxine though which is more similar than people think) I didn't feel a thing off 500mg's, didn't want to go higher because of seizure risk. O-desmethyltramadol was nice. Maybe I'm just deficit of 2D6 (which happens to also convert tram to O-DSMT - which is responsible for the euphoria, in terms of analgesia there was no or little difference between poor and extensive metabolizers so the metabolite isn't required. Venlafaxine for sure is some wicked weird opioid because it causes a similar withdrawal like morphine. Avoid it if possible.
 
supersonic89 said:
Maybe I don't metabolize it properly? But in that case, you would also have problems with tramadol.
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I took 18 x 30mg codeine phosphate and felt nothing off it but the worst itching ever, but I use to love tramadol from the first time I tried it, weird eh

And I hadn't took drugs for ages so it wasn't tolerence
 
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When you got the itching then it was morphine. I didn't feel much from H either the first time. You feel more off opioids when you're in pain or addicted, they work by disabling pain not primarily inducing euphoria unless dosed pretty decently.
 
plumbus-nine said:
they work by disabling pain
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I was prescribed them for pain, back pain before I got diagnosed with fibromyalgia, and it didn't help my pain, but here's what's strange, Zapain which is 30mg codeine and 500mg paracetamol helps my pain, I read on Bluelight ages ago someone mentioning paracetamol helps the codiene kick in, and for me codiene alone don't help my fibromyalgia but 2 x Zapain does, but paracetamol alone doesn't help at all
 
Tramadol is a very rare pill. Some guys on a imageboard recommended that a dose for someone without tolerance be 150 mg. That was my first experience with tramadol, but days later I don't know what happened and I could finally feel it. It was a fantastic experience. Today that dose wouldn't even tickle me. I would say that it still causes me happiness / euphoria but not as marked as the first year. I would say that at this point I take it more than anything to avoid the unpleasant withdrawal.

I'm pretty sure the culprit that didn't work on you was venlafaxine. Any antidepressant will make it almost impossible for tramadol to be metabolized to odsmt.
 
Hippy Flower Fairy said:
Remember tramadol has SNRI qualitys, so could that potentiate the effects for people who can't break down codeine into morphine?
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I don't know man. I have two theories about it: 1) tolerance 2) or high consumption of tramadol prevents codeine from being metabolized.
 
The SNRI effects aren't really noticeable acutely because reuptake inhibitors hit autoreceptors which reduces the output of transmitters almost to the same degree than the RI potentiates them. As dosage increases one will get nausea, headache, hypertension but for euphoria you need a releaser (or O-DSMT). Tramadol itself is analgesic and antidepressive* but doesn't get you high. It also will block the euphoria from codeine probably.

* if you see increase in serotonin (with time the receptors desensitize and there will be more serotonin, I theorize though that long term reuptake inhibitors won't increase the net throughput, they just modulate) as antidepressive. It's a pretty indirect thing. What one wants is dopamine and oxytocin/maybe vasopressin, don't understand these systems yet. Serotonin itself only causes headache. Some ADs like fluoxetine which antagonizes 5ht2c will release dopamine in supratherapeutic dosages, and tramadol is very probably too a (albeit very weak) releaser. Venlafaxine might be as well, as it has one of the worst withdrawals I know of. DXM is a walk in the park in comparison and that's supposed to be equally strong as a SNRI, it's strong enough to cause panic at >450mg off the excessive NE. But the euphoria only arises because of NMDA antagonism. Even morphine was easier than venlafaxine, I've switched painfully to fluoxetine but still if I miss a dose, my brain begins to pseudoseize (brain zaps, restlessness, etc) and this when fluoxetine should stay in your body for more than a week..
 
Hippy Flower Fairy said:
I definitely felt the high effect of the SNRI, then staggered 6 trams through the day and by the late afternoon felt the opioid effects
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How would you describe them? The NE is noticeable yeah, but from a SSRI you won't feel anything pleasurable in the short term. Tram & venla are different though, always liked/preferred venla because it worked within one or two days but still not instantly. When you overdose on SSRIs you'll only get headaches.
 
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