Chewing Fresh Kratom VS. ingesting dried Kratom?

[User145667]

Which is better? And by "better" I mean "which feels the most like an opiate"?

Also, has anyone tried Fermented Kratom? How was it?

One more question: Overnight, cold-brewed Kratom tea, or rapid ready, hot-brewed tea?

I also just thought of a question just now: can you ferment Poppy pods? Would it result in stronger Poppy straw?

 

[deficiT]

I don't think many around have chewed the fresh leaves. It most commonly comes in it's powdered form by the time it gets where its going. I would imagine the effects wouldn't be any different.

 

[AlanaaBanana]

I've had what was told to be fermented kratom before, can't really say it was that much different from say a red strain. Nothing noticeably different in my experience, than a more "mellowed" experience.

In terms of raw leaves, I'd agree with @deficiT, if anything it may be slightly more "energizing" is all I can think of, with leaves, as you'd be chewing the "vein"/stem together with the leaf it self, would be my guess. Maybe higher alkaloid content due to it being fresher, but I doubt really anything substantially different from the powdered form.

But again most powdered forms include the whole leaf anyways.

 

[JonnyDeath]

The amount you would be chewing to catch a mild buzz would surely be unpleasant.

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

I c

I don't think many around have chewed the fresh leaves. It most commonly comes in it's powdered form by the time it gets where its going. I would imagine the effects wouldn't be any different.

I chew fresh leaf daily. My own harvest. You are correct - the effects are different

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

I've had what was told to be fermented kratom before, can't really say it was that much different from say a red strain. Nothing noticeably different in my experience, than a more "mellowed" experience.

In terms of raw leaves, I'd agree with @deficiT, if anything it may be slightly more "energizing" is all I can think of, with leaves, as you'd be chewing the "vein"/stem together with the leaf it self, would be my guess. Maybe higher alkaloid content due to it being fresher, but I doubt really anything substantially different from the powdered form.

But again most powdered forms include the whole leaf anyways.

Red strains ARE fermented though. Thats what makes them red
The substancial difference in fresh vs dried is the opioid affinity caused by oxidation

 

[G_Chem]

There is no opioid affinity when you chew fresh leaf.

What makes you say that? How is the fresh leaf experience different?

Typically fresh psychoactive plants are different than dried. Of course some psychoactives don’t change much, Mescaline comes to mind and to a lesser extent DMT. But then look at coca with degradation happening fairly fast after drying. Others like Wild Lettuce Opium or Salvia Nemorosa hardly resemble the fresh form when dried.

Cannabis is an example of a drug that must be dried and cured for it to develop more potent psychoactivity. Khat becomes much weaker as cathinone degrades to cathine.

So changes can occur in many ways depending on how the drug is dried or processed after picking fresh.

-GC

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

What makes you say that? How is the fresh leaf experience different?

Typically fresh psychoactive plants are different than dried. Of course some psychoactives don’t change much, Mescaline comes to mind and to a lesser extent DMT. But then look at coca with degradation happening fairly fast after drying. Others like Wild Lettuce Opium or Salvia Nemorosa hardly resemble the fresh form when dried.

Cannabis is an example of a drug that must be dried and cured for it to develop more potent psychoactivity. Khat becomes much weaker as cathinone degrades to cathine.

So changes can occur in many ways depending on how the drug is dried or processed after picking fresh.

-GC

Cannabis has to be more than dried and cured, it also has to be decarboxylated.

I chew fresh leaf and I also take dry powdered kratom. The mitragynine content in fresh leaf is extremely low, I get 0 pain relief or opioid euphoria. Fresh leaf is also more energy-promoting but I cant say I know exactly why on that.

 

[somnilicious]

Cannabis has to be more than dried and cured, it also has to be decarboxylated.

I chew fresh leaf and I also take dry powdered kratom. The mitragynine content in fresh leaf is extremely low, I get 0 pain relief or opioid euphoria. Fresh leaf is also more energy-promoting but I cant say I know exactly why on that.

I agree with this. I can get an opiate effect but I have to chew like at least 6 big leaves. It's definitely more energizing. I also find green and white dried kratom more stimulating than red fermented but not always.

 

[G_Chem]

Cannabis has to be more than dried and cured, it also has to be decarboxylated.

I chew fresh leaf and I also take dry powdered kratom. The mitragynine content in fresh leaf is extremely low, I get 0 pain relief or opioid euphoria. Fresh leaf is also more energy-promoting but I cant say I know exactly why on that.

This is true. I suppose I was thinking in the context of smoking (the most commonly used method) in which case the process happens as it is heated and is regards to ROA. If we go down that wormhole it opens up all new interactions. Such as how more MDA is produced metabolically when consumed orally, or how cocaine freebase turns into methylecgonine when a flame touches it.

-GC

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

This is true. I suppose I was thinking in the context of smoking (the most commonly used method) in which case the process happens as it is heated and is regards to ROA. If we go down that wormhole it opens up all new interactions. Such as how more MDA is produced metabolically when consumed orally, or how cocaine freebase turns into methylecgonine when a flame touches it.

-GC

Ya you right! I content write for a cannabis insurance agent and Im doing recipes all the time so I easily forget that most people still smoke cannabis. Gummies and tinctures are a big ticket item though and if you dont decarb those, you've got placebo at best.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Red strains ARE fermented though. Thats what makes them red

Technically there is a difference. Red strains can sometimes have a red hue, although it appears brownish to me (I have minor red/green colorblindness). Red strains have a prominent red vein while growing, hence the name.

But the dried/processed stuff that is very clearly red in color is fermented, yes.

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

Technically there is a difference. Red strains can sometimes have a red hue, although it appears brownish to me (I have minor red/green colorblindness). Red strains have a prominent red vein while growing, hence the name.

But the dried/processed stuff that is very clearly red in color is fermented, yes.

No. Farmers are not seperating by vein color. They are working on a mass scale mixing all the leaves together. You have to understand what processing in Indonesia looks. Furthermore, the "Bones" (stems) are removed before drying leaving no red at all. HERE is a the truth from a PhD

 

[Snafu in the Void]

No. Farmers are not seperating by vein color. They are working on a mass scale mixing all the leaves together. You have to understand what processing in Indonesia looks. Furthermore, the "Bones" (stems) are removed before drying leaving no red at all. HERE is a the truth from a PhD

I'm quite familiar with the process and scene. GOOD small batch farmers do not "mix it all together", some do but sell it as yellow or gold. Must be describing unscrupulous bulk farmers.

It's actually the local vendors that do most of the mixing, as far as I'm aware. I chat quite a bit with 2 vendors.

I no longer buy from bulk kratom farmers/vendors (or anything associated with the American Kratom Association), the quality has fallen tremendously in the last few years.

I know they remove the stems, I think I misunderstood what you meant when you said "red strains are red due to fermentation".

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

I'm quite familiar with the process and scene. GOOD small batch farmers do not "mix it all together", some do but sell it as yellow or gold. Must be describing unscrupulous bulk farmers.

It's actually the local vendors that do most of the mixing, as far as I'm aware. I chat quite a bit with 2 vendors.

I no longer buy from bulk kratom farmers/vendors (or anything associated with the American Kratom Association), the quality has fallen tremendously in the last few years.

I know they remove the stems, I think I misunderstood what you meant when you said "red strains are red due to fermentation".

US vendors are only mixing colors to make supposed strains. They do not do the grinding or processing at all.

All US vendors say they are small batch - none of them are. Its all bulk now due to high demand and unfair trade.

You have to know that Indo farmers sell to Indo suppliers. The suppliers grind the product and package it. The suppliers sell to US brokers. Your vendor buys from the broker. NO ONE is flying kratom in direct from the farmer and no US vendors is doing any processing other than slapping labels on different colors of powder. Colors that were created from the drying process. Us vendors are all supplied by the same few guys. Its a monopoly (almost)

Not only do I harvest kratom myself (and process it), but I used to broker and microvend it. There are no strains and red are red due to the drying process, not the vein or strain

I agree with you 100 percent on the AKA-listed vendors. TRASH

 

[Snafu in the Void]

US vendors are only mixing colors to make supposed strains. They do not do the grinding or processing at all.

All US vendors say they are small batch - none of them are. Its all bulk now due to high demand and unfair trade.

I can point you to a few of my favorite US vendors, who actually grow their own leaf here in the states. Often closed to new members, not open stores. Indeed there are quite a few true small batch vendors, but yes it's a trendy thing most vendors call themselves even if they aren't.

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

I can point you to a few of my favorite US vendors, who actually grow their own leaf here in the states. Often closed to new members, not open stores. Indeed there are quite a few true small batch vendors, but yes it's a trendy thing most vendors call themselves even if they aren't.

Im in Indonesia right now, lol. No need for US vendors

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Im in Indonesia right now, lol. No need for US vendors

What's your opinion on fermented anyways? I've heard from a few people who visited Indonesia and they said NEVER buy fermented, I assume due to unsafe conditions in which it's made (pathogens).

And do you know anything about why kratom quality has gone down so much, especially in the last 2-3 years? I just assumed it was due to extreme demand from the US, so farmers harvest less than optimal kratom or add bad stuff to meet quotas.

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

What's your opinion on fermented anyways? I've heard from a few people who visited Indonesia and they said NEVER buy fermented, I assume due to unsafe conditions in which it's made (pathogens).

They tie wet leaves up into plastic trash bags and leave them in the sun for 3 days to rot. Thats how the "ferment" it.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

They tie wet leaves up into plastic trash bags and leave them in the sun for 3 days to rot. Thats how the "ferment" it.

Yeah, I know it's kinda sketchy. I'm wondering if they sterilize it. This crappy AKA brand 'Happy Hippo' claims they sterilize all their kratom. I've never heard any other vendor make that claim.