RCs Big n Dandy 4-FA (4-fluoroamphetamine) thread v.1.0

[titstypedthis]

ya cause creating freebase amphetamines is difficult chemistry 8)

seriously you haven't said a thing that warrants my respect.

However i will thank you for telling me how and why i might not be able to perform a stereospecific crystallization, or analysis.


Your insistence i was sold shit, incredibly impure substance is equally as disrespectful as calling you a textbook professor, ie: psuedo-knowledge spewing idiot.

I know my vendors, strangely enough i actually believe i can trust them, i know the substance, i know purity and consistency when i see it/test it, i know the effects of both this sample and that of 4-fa that matches others experiences from different vendors.

i'm not completely blind to the other possibilities of what it may be.
I know it's not 4-f-methcathinone or any cathinone for that matter.

So the question stands, if its not 4-fa, what is it?

 

[amapola]

So the question stands, if its not 4-fa, what is it?

I thought you said you were sure it was 4-fa? Anyways we can't identify what chemical you have over the internet. You would need GC-MS to do that. In fact even then wouldn't be able to tell between 3-Fa and 4-Fa which would need IR analysis.

Could be any of these or others...

 

[titstypedthis]

I thought you said you were sure it was 4-fa? Anyways we can't identify what chemical you have over the internet. You would need GC-MS to do that. In fact even then wouldn't be able to tell between 3-Fa and 4-Fa which would need IR analysis.

Could be any of these or others...

I am, but i can't ignore the question when its insisted i am wrong.

Crystal structure is like fine needles about 2-3cm long spread out in a circular pattern with one end facing in and the other facing out.

and we all do the hokey pokey and turn around

anyone wanna do a recrystallization see if you get similar crystals?!?!?

 

[amanitadine]

Jesus kid, slow down and take a step back. You are asking some dumb ass questions, receiving valid answers, and then lashing out when they aren't the answers you are looking for?

Really, read through this thread and see how you are holding yourself. It is disgraceful. Be honored that someone is even taking the time to answer your silly questions.. . time that you could have spent thinking before posting and saving some potential embarrassment.

Sooooo....why are you sure it is 4-FA again? Certainty is a rare beast. It sure doesn't sound like it. Reagents tests are designed to work as a process of exclusion. . you've got it backwards.

Separating the isomers requires mechanical separation (like using column chromatography) or chemical (like salting with out with an optically active acid, like tartaric) and is most certainly beyond your means. it is highly unlikely that you have the levo isomer alone.

This blind vendor trust in spite of evidence to the contrary is not in anyones best interest. Even if you may trust your vendor what about if they are getting hoodwinked by the manufacturers or distributors?

Trust evidence and facts.

You cannot know what you have without access to analytical equipment.

And please refrain from being an ass to people that are patient and sympathetic enough to try and educate you.

 

[titstypedthis]

I'm sorry but i don't accept give up and try again, as a useful answer when it comes to finding out what i've got here.

Amphetamines without a methylenedioxy bridge produce an orangish colour when applied to Marquis reagent right?

I'm certain of it's purity and i'm certain its pharmacology shares an aspect of the accepted 4-fa's effects.

What makes it so hard to believe that the supplier chemically separated the substance too get the most active and favorable isomer before selling the shit to the vendor and then on to me?

whats so difficult about chemically separating isomers?
Do you honestly believe its beyond a hobby chemists means to perform?

Tartaric acid is not difficult to acquire.
So can you give me a link with instructions on how i might be able to perform it?

 

[3rd_I_blind]

What makes it so hard to believe that the supplier chemically separated the substance too get the most active and favorable isomer before selling the shit to the vendor and then on to me?

Prices of 4-FMP when buying +10 kg are certainly below $ 1 per gram. This means most solvents become more expensive then the extra money to be made when separating the isomer. Since 4-FMP has only one stereocenter, the most likely consistency of the 'normal' product is racemic. This means you can - in the most favorable conditions - cut your good isomer on a 50/50 basis with an inert substance, while you get a lot of bad attention by selling the other isomer. Add to this the cost of the solvents, equipment and time involved and it is just very, very unlikely anyone would do this. Don't forget your inert filler will also have a price, since you want a substance that matches 4-FMP in terms of color/particle size and other features.

whats so difficult about chemically separating isomers?

It takes skill, patience and expensive equipment. At least two of these three things are usually not available for vendors operating in the semi-legal drug-trade.

Do you honestly believe its beyond a hobby chemists means to perform?

Yes it is. And btw, al your previous posts don't exactly give you any credit as someone that has even the slightest idea about what tasks a hobby chemist can and cannot easily perform.

 

[Transform]

Just get a microscope from ebay and put it on maximum zoom, have a look at some of the molecules, you should be able to see if there are two optical isomers or just one.

I know it probably seems like some people are ganging up on you, but take the "textbook chemists'" word for it tits, it's a complex procedure which is totally unnecessary for such vendors. Not to mention the fact that (assuming one isomer is inactive) this has clearly been cut way past 50:50, so it'd be a fool's move anyway, just driving away customers. We've not got some other agenda!

A significant number of other amphetamines give an orange marquis reaction, and even then a 1:9 cut would still give a coloured reaction. As has been said already, test kits are for confirming that something is not present.

 

[amapola]

Hey TTT,

I'm still confused about what you are trying to get out of this. Since you think your sample is only one of the isomers why would you want to perform an isometric separation? You can always check if you got your hands on a polarimeter I suppose. I'm guessing from your questions you might not know what that is eh. Polarity has to do with the oscillation of waves. I haven't studied this crap in years but I do remember going a little cross eyed back in the day .

Ho humm look up how for transverse light waves their electric field will be at right angles to their velocity. The field can either rotate about the direction of travel (important see NSFW pic below) or just point in one direction.

(nsfw just for size)

NSFW:

The isomer mixture in neutral solution will polarize light passing through it. So for a polarimeter you beam polarized light (which can be described as the vector addition of a left-hand circling polarization and right-hand circling polarization) and then measure how much it was polarized left or right to determine the ratio of L and D.

For isolation (though I can't possibly see how it'll get this far as if it turns out you do have just one isomer you won't want to do this and if it turns out you have both then the bioassay shows it's not 4-Fa) you'll want to look into an optical resolution. I have no idea if this will work but just by pulling off the top of my head have the racemic freebase mixture dissolved in a nonpolar solvent and add either left or right tartaric acid to get proportionally more of the left or right amp salt to precipitate out and repeat.

 

[titstypedthis]

ok, thankyou.
finally this information is actually useful, not simply, fuck off and buy it elsewhere.

As i said, bioassay gives the impression it is certainly somewhat 4-fa, it has the same onset and extremely similar taste.
Its effects however are far more peripheral than central, again i have taken it upto 1 gram doses, this keeps me awake for atleast 12 hours.. but euphoria is limited too the first say 10 minutes and at that it is not in any way spectacular.


Also, why is noone willing to do a comparitive recrystallization?
I realize it is not the most definitive method of identification.. but compared to subjective bioassay it is by far more useful.

 

[amapola]

^One of the reasons they aren't willing to help is because it is against the rules. We can't be sure of what you have and it is a huge waste of time speculating like this. Especially when we are speculating about such an unlikely occurrence.

I've given you enough terms as a starting point now to be able to do your own research on the internet, and spend your time and money on whatever you'd like. I won't recommend anything past basic chemical (e.g. reagent) and physical (e.g. melting point, solubility) tests though.

 

[titstypedthis]

it took 2 pm's on another site to get 3 sites that may do chemical analysis for me.

why chemical analysis websites are taboo here is beyond me but it sounds like bullshit too be honest.

 

[amapola]

^As far as I know they are hardly taboo, and submitting unknown chemicals for official testing is encouraged. We don't want to deal with advertisement and reviews for specific companies but I don't see anything else wrong with it.

 

[titstypedthis]

^exactly
i am just surprised none of the companies were posted.
It is not as if it would become an ad war if one were, i don't think these particular companies are into shilling.
Thankyou for finally posting useful information though ^ all the above.

 

[girlygrrl]

I bought some 4-fa and am wondering what a good threshold dose would be? I'm using it to help me improve focus to work on some projects, not really trying to trip on it.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

Grrl, best thing would be to start at 20 mg, working your way up in increments of 5 mg if needed.
This is a real low dosage, but most people already notice improved attention span on such a low dose.

Personally I have tried it as a study aid up to 45 mg, and I have found that above 40 mg there is already too much stimulation to get any benefits from increased attention.
Like when I would listen to some music, I would just get lost in the music instead of focusing on the project at hand.
Be sure to have a bottle of water within reach btw, since 4-FMP is notorious for causing unquenchable thirst (although not that bad on such a low dose, obviously).

 

[theotherside]

Tried this one out last weekend and I am very happy with the results. Took 100mg's in a bomb to start and tried a small bump around the 3 hour mark(bad idea). The burn is worse than meph......a lot worse.

As far as effects go I use a 3 part system:
Euphoria-7/10.....almost as nice as mephedrone but it has slightly less entactogenic qualities
Comedown-6/10.....took a good amount of time to sleep but comedown was much easier than drone/lone
Overall rating 7/10....great substance that serves as a lite entactogen and euphoric stimulant. I was searching for a meph replacement and this seems like a good candidate

 

[change-jug]

I just took roughly 20mgs. Although sadly I can`t be sure because my scale isn`t as accurate as I`d hoped it was. It`s been about an hour since I dosed. I`m not hungry,had the urge to pay some bills,dropped a deuce and can tell that I`m not sober. So I think I may try another 20-40mgs and see where that takes me.
Any advice?
I should mention that I have to work in the morning and so won`t be re-dosing after this last time. I guess for next time I`ll take a bigger starting dose. I just wanted to play it safe and start small for my first time.

 

[Issac Sinclair]

Your insistence i was sold shit, incredibly impure substance is equally as disrespectful as calling you a textbook professor, ie: psuedo-knowledge spewing idiot.

I know my vendors, strangely enough i actually believe i can trust them, i know the substance, i know purity and consistency when i see it/test it, i know the effects of both this sample and that of 4-fa that matches others experiences from different vendors.
So the question stands, if its not 4-fa, what is it?

Hey, from what I gathered, you trust your vendors but know it isn't 4-FA? You will not be able to separate the isomers, best thing is really to buy it somewhere else. Its cheap, practical, and the least wasteful. The similar taste you describe can be an impurity that is shared by both samples. What is the taste ? Mines is extremely bitter, and slightly sour.

 

[girlygrrl]

Grrl, best thing would be to start at 20 mg, working your way up in increments of 5 mg if needed.
This is a real low dosage, but most people already notice improved attention span on such a low dose.

thanks, mine finally arrived so I'm trying it out.

 

[change-jug]

So how are things going for you girlygrrl? What kind of dose did you take?