RCs Big n Dandy 4-FA (4-fluoroamphetamine) thread v.1.0

[change-jug]

That's what I'm saying. Don't get me wrong, MDMA is awesome but I literally wouldn't say it's better than 4-FA. Again, subjective, but to me it is very similar. I do need to experiment more with 4-FA being it's only been under 10 times and my MDMA has been well over 50 times throughout my life but this substance wow's me just as MDMA did when I first discovered it in high school.

Really? My second batch from a different source was way better than my first batch and I really enjoyed it but (for me anyway) I wouldn't`compare 4-FA to MDMA at all.
It`s a lot of fun,no doubt about it! But for me it`s a lot closer to a traditional stim with added euphoria. Not the messy headed blissed out feeling mdma produces.

 

[I Eat Pho]

Really? My second batch from a different source was way better than my first batch and I really enjoyed it but (for me anyway) I wouldn't`compare 4-FA to MDMA at all.
It`s a lot of fun,no doubt about it! But for me it`s a lot closer to a traditional stim with added euphoria. Not the messy headed blissed out feeling mdma produces.

What traditional stims are you referring to? I ask because there are a lot of stims I've never tried before so I'm trying to get an idea. I have never tried meth before so I can't compare it to that. Would you say it's similar to meth?

Also, not sure, but I think my dose was on the higher end.. I hear most people dosing 4-fa between 120 and 150mg but I usually dosed 170. Do you think that has a profound effect on my differed experience? I agree that the empathogen effect is somewhat lessened with 4-fa (although it's presence is undoubtedly there).

 

[sackynut]

@3rd I: sure thats partly true. but this is a 4FA thread, not a "what can you combine to get MDMA like effects". not to mention mixing 4fa and 2c-d even at the perfect doses, will NOT be exactly like MDMA. MDMA is MDMA.

sure 4fa makes you feel loved up and want to hug and fuck everyone. but MDMA makes you "understand" why you want to love everyone.

Not to mention im sure a lot of people posting here havent tried high purity MDMA.

4fa feels like a shitty thizz pill. and seeing as how the average amount of MDMA in a E tab right now is ~40mg, and most tabs ive come across have none in them at all, id say there are many who have yet to actually experience the magic. try a 100 mg line of GC/MS and NMR tested 99% pure MDMA and tell me if its anything like 4fa, because its NOTHING like 4fa.

theres a flourine at a 4 position, and an MD ring at the 3,4...there a HUGE pharmacological difference and the balance of monoamine function that MDMA produces is one of a kind.

 

[sighhill]

^I would have to agree with nut man. I've had 4-Fa several times from several vendors. I know where the best 4-Fa is and it doesn't compare to even a low dose REAL mdma roll.

Don't get me wrong at all I like 4-Fa, it just doesn't give me that roll like mdma. Neither does m1. Now high doses of either mixed with MDAI? that's a whole different story.

 

[3rd_I_blind]

this is a 4FA thread, not a "what can you combine to get MDMA like effects".

1. You are the one with a previous post in this thread that is totally dedicated to MDMA; not me.
2. My post contained other (valuable) information regarding 4-FMP and its differences to other popular stimulants.
3. How is it off-topic to discuss certain combinations - of which 4-FMP is the main ingredient - in a thread dedicated to 4-FMP?

MDMA makes you "understand" why you want to love everyone.

I totally disagree, but this is subjective of course.

Not to mention im sure a lot of people posting here havent tried high purity MDMA.

Don't you think we should try to keep this discussion limited to the (verifiable) facts? These kind of debates where people that disagree are 'probably getting unpure or mislabeled product' don't really lead to anything. Besides that, in my country of residence there are free drug tests and 4-FMP was widely available in headshops until a few years ago, so I am pretty sure that even if your assumption holds true it does not apply to me, my friends and all the people from my local scene. Free drug testing, abundant supply of A-quality XTC/MDMA, and (legally) available 4-FMP for the past 15-20 years or so...

For the rest of your post, I generally agree that 4-FMP is not the same as MDMA. However, I have never stated otherwise and merely tried to point out that some people (including you) report the effects of MDMA very subjectively, while there are also people that do not like certain aspects of MDMA and thus are more interested in a 4-FMP type of high. If you think 4-FMP feels like a 'shitty thizz pill' that is fine by me. However, I know at least 20 people that prefer 4-FMP over MDMA, while 150-180 mg dosed tablets (pure MDMA) are more or less the rule where I'm from. So again: Your subjective presumption about the quality of other people's supplies does not hold true.

 

[I Eat Pho]

1. You are the one with a previous post in this thread that is totally dedicated to MDMA; not me.
2. My post contained other (valuable) information regarding 4-FMP and its differences to other popular stimulants.
3. How is it off-topic to discuss certain combinations - of which 4-FMP is the main ingredient - in a thread dedicated to 4-FMP?


I totally disagree, but this is subjective of course.


Don't you think we should try to keep this discussion limited to the (verifiable) facts? These kind of debates where people that disagree are 'probably getting unpure or mislabeled product' don't really lead to anything. Besides that, in my country of residence there are free drug tests and 4-FMP was widely available in headshops until a few years ago, so I am pretty sure that even if your assumption holds true it does not apply to me, my friends and all the people from my local scene. Free drug testing, abundant supply of A-quality XTC/MDMA, and (legally) available 4-FMP for the past 15-20 years or so...

For the rest of your post, I generally agree that 4-FMP is not the same as MDMA. However, I have never stated otherwise and merely tried to point out that some people (including you) report the effects of MDMA very subjectively, while there are also people that do not like certain aspects of MDMA and thus are more interested in a 4-FMP type of high. If you think 4-FMP feels like a 'shitty thizz pill' that is fine by me. However, I know at least 20 people that prefer 4-FMP over MDMA, while 150-180 mg dosed tablets (pure MDMA) are more or less the rule where I'm from. So again: Your subjective presumption about the quality of other people's supplies does not hold true.

Well said. I agree. I feel that too many posts are just subjective opinions but people stating them as facts. I too have posted my subjective opinions but I labeled them as being so. Also, you can't assume what anyone's quality of mdma is.

I'd like to hear some peoples opinions on the body buzz/rush on 4-fa. I found it extremely profound and a little more intense than MDMA. Anyone else?

 

[sackynut]

yes the body rush is more profound, because its an amphetamine stimulant with hardly any serotonergic properties. emoticon sad face emoticon sad face.

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

hey, second time using 4 FA tonight, last time dosed 100mg followed by a 50mg redose sometime later had a good time :D. Just wondering, how would MDAI effect the mix, and could this possibly increase any bad side effects , neurotoxicity etc?.

Hey! I personally found that 4-fa & MDAI did NOT work well together. I can't really put my finger on it, but it just didnt feel right, felt kinda anxious & lasted a bit toooo long. I only did it once & didn't enjoy it so I havent repeated the experiment.

Careful with this combo, just in case my experience is a sign of contra-indications.

 

[change-jug]

What traditional stims are you referring to? I ask because there are a lot of stims I've never tried before so I'm trying to get an idea. I have never tried meth before so I can't compare it to that. Would you say it's similar to meth?

Also, not sure, but I think my dose was on the higher end.. I hear most people dosing 4-fa between 120 and 150mg but I usually dosed 170. Do you think that has a profound effect on my differed experience? I agree that the empathogen effect is somewhat lessened with 4-fa (although it's presence is undoubtedly there).

The "traditional stimulants" I`m referring to would be amphetamine,dextroamphetamine,Adderall(a mix of amphetamine salts) and Ritalin(MPH). I have yet to come across methamphetamine or use it. What I mean is that 4-fa gives focus and drive,much like the chemicals I mentioned but with an added euphoria. But,the euphoria isn`t as overwhelming as mdma or methylone. I just dosed 90mgs and felt for me that might be a bit too high of a dose. Although I do dose repeatedly over the course of the day/night. Not a binge as I go to bed at a normal time,but I like doing smaller doses spread out across a few hours.

 

[I Eat Pho]

The "traditional stimulants" I`m referring to would be amphetamine,dextroamphetamine,Adderall(a mix of amphetamine salts) and Ritalin(MPH). I have yet to come across methamphetamine or use it. What I mean is that 4-fa gives focus and drive,much like the chemicals I mentioned but with an added euphoria. But,the euphoria isn`t as overwhelming as mdma or methylone. I just dosed 90mgs and felt for me that might be a bit too high of a dose. Although I do dose repeatedly over the course of the day/night. Not a binge as I go to bed at a normal time,but I like doing smaller doses spread out across a few hours.

Interesting. This has me thinking now about different batches of 4-fa going around. I found no similarities with adderal. I always dosed 170mg, never less, and felt such an intense body buzz, extreme euphoria, and a pretty decent empthananogenic quality (not as much as MDMA but still a decent amount).

Of course euphoria and other effects are subjective but I really found no similarity with dexamp or ritalin. To me those are just like straight stims, not much euphoria, I would almost be willing to compare it more with MDPV than 4-fa.

I wonder where the difference in effects felt per person come from.

 

[change-jug]

I think dexamp has a nice amount of euphoria to it. 4-FA has a lot more but not as much as mdma or mdmc. At least to me. I do really enjoy it though and I think it blows mdpv totally out of the water(I don`t get any euphoria from it).
I`m sure if I dropped 170mgs I would feel a TON more good feelings. But I tend to get a upset stomach and mildly pukey if I take too high of a dose. 90 mgs had me reaching for the mylanta. Do you take yours orally? I do but have been thinking of intramuscular injecting it.

 

[Pegasus]

yes the body rush is more profound, because its an amphetamine stimulant with hardly any serotonergic properties. emoticon sad face emoticon sad face.

4-FA has clear sertonergic effects...

 

[I Eat Pho]

I think dexamp has a nice amount of euphoria to it. 4-FA has a lot more but not as much as mdma or mdmc. At least to me. I do really enjoy it though and I think it blows mdpv totally out of the water(I don`t get any euphoria from it).
I`m sure if I dropped 170mgs I would feel a TON more good feelings. But I tend to get a upset stomach and mildly pukey if I take too high of a dose. 90 mgs had me reaching for the mylanta. Do you take yours orally? I do but have been thinking of intramuscular injecting it.

Yes, I've only done it orally. Usually dissolve in shot glass of water. Do you think it would be worth it to IM?

 

[sackynut]

the real problem i see is miscommunication of terms. euphoria means a lot of different things to people. some people say dexamp is completely non euphoric, some say it is. etc etc. these things must be qualitatively agreed upon or something.

4-fa oral is the way to go.

 

[Farfath666]

what is the duration and comedown like rectal compared to oral?

 

[3rd_I_blind]

what is the duration and comedown like rectal compared to oral?

This is not really a question that can be answered unequivocally, since this largely depends on your dosage and - besides that - it is a typical 'YMMV' kind of factor.

the real problem i see is miscommunication of terms. euphoria means a lot of different things to people. some people say dexamp is completely non euphoric, some say it is. etc etc. these things must be qualitatively agreed upon or something.

So now, instead of the purity of other people's MDMA, it is their definition of 'euphoria'? Does it not seem a lot more logical to assume that not every single person experiences a chemical - like dextro-amphetamine - exactly the same? Making it more than likely that some people report euphoria where others do not. As for your suggestion for a qualitative agreement on the exact definition of euphoria: It's here (notice the 'sometimes induced by the use of psychoactive drugs' ?). Perhaps this and this will also interest you.

4-fa oral is the way to go.

I agree 100%. Intramuscular injections of any amphetamine immediately raises questions. However, i.m. bioavailability is likely comparable to i.v. bioavailability, making it a valid alternative in that respect.

 

[change-jug]

Thanks for the thoughts on IM`ing. I haven`t tried it yet or really have any desire to go that route. I thought I had read about IM`ing either in this thread or somewhere else on BL.Meh,no biggie.
I have tried rectal 4-fa. It was alright. I`ve only gone that route twice(with this chem at any rate). I felt that while I could use less of the substance to get similar effects(a good thing),it also came on and wore off a lot faster as well(not always a good thing). YMMV
In regards to using the term "euphoria",I agree that it`s very subjective term that will change from person to person.
If I were to describe the effects with out using the word I`d have to say that it produces feelings of love,excessive talking/rambling,enhanced music enjoyment,some sexual enhancement,lack of appetite,energy,some focus,sleeplessness and general mood lift.

 

[Farfath666]

I have tried rectal 4-fa. It was alright. I`ve only gone that route twice(with this chem at any rate). I felt that while I could use less of the substance to get similar effects(a good thing),it also came on and wore off a lot faster as well(not always a good thing). YMMV

do you mean the "main effects" came on and wore off much faster or was there still stimulation present after the initial effects (and most desirable ones IMO)? I couldn't sleep until t +10h and would prefer it if the stimulation following the initial "euphoria" subsided much quicker.

 

[change-jug]

Both. The main effects wore off(for me) in about 4 hours and I was able to be in bed and sleeping 2 hours after that. I might have taken a benadryl to help me get sleepy but I`m not sure.
I should mention that I don`t seem to suffer from any prolonged stimulation from 4-fa,no matter what batch or vendor used. But rectal admin definitely sped up the time frame and all effects wore off much faster.

 

[shewei]

Sorry if this is asked before but id like to know if its possible to take a normal dose of 4-FA when youre on celexa (SSRI)? As i understood it its less serotonergic than for example mdma? Will it work at all? And should i worry for serotonin syndrome? Thanks!