Best way to cycle benzo's to beat tolerance

[Mycophile]

I have GAD and use Klonopin 4 days a week at 1.5mgs and abstain the other 3 and I just don't understand where all the overthinking of the subject comes from personally.

Maybe some wouldn't be able to get away with it but after years of use I've never gone through withdrawal or saw any serious side effects from this kind of regimen despite all the warnings to the contrary.

My advice is to use a LOW dose of benzo half the week and abstain the other days.

I end up being fine most days I abstain but feel extra anxiety-free on the days I do use and *knock on wood* but after 11 years of use I've really never ended up having to "pay the piper" for my usage.

 

[Valz4GAD]

Thankyou. I have read benzo buddies. Lots of it. I believe a lot of the stories on there. I do believe however, knowing my own body that I will probably need to come off diazepam sooner than most as my tolerance builds very quickly. I have abused drugs before from an early age until my late teens (now 33) I'm am up to my head with my condition now and it WILL ruin the life I've gotten right now of I don't change things right now. I don't believe and especially have the time to any other way. I've made my decision I think and really believe I can get through the withdrawals now as I have had many 'come downs' in the past with the anxiety on top and I've also explained the situation to my wife and asked for support when the time comes. I just need a better quality of life Now. For my relationships sake and the example in setting to my very young children.

 

[Valz4GAD]

MYCHOPHILE - I wanna be there too. Is diazepam then right choice for it?

 

[HUSKTON]

I have GAD and use Klonopin 4 days a week at 1.5mgs and abstain the other 3 and I just don't understand where all the overthinking of the subject comes from personally.

Maybe some wouldn't be able to get away with it but after years of use I've never gone through withdrawal or saw any serious side effects from this kind of regimen despite all the warnings to the contrary.

My advice is to use a LOW dose of benzo half the week and abstain the other days.

I end up being fine most days I abstain but feel extra anxiety-free on the days I do use and *knock on wood* but after 11 years of use I've really never ended up having to "pay the piper" for my usage.

I agree that IME benzos never seem to present serious WD. I've had to part with my script the day I got it more than once. The symptoms that are addressed by the med emerge in full effect, and it is awful in that way, but not the same as chemical dependence. I don't doubt that WD is very serious and torturous, but it has not happened to me in over a decade of klonopin use. Shows how different people really are.

 

[Speed King]

but case in point you DID exp WD plain and simple..... to what degree maybe it was manageable for you very well put what is horrendous for me might be a walk in the park for you the thing is our adventure is always gonna be different i stated we can give info to a certain degree but always take what you read online with a grain of salt and the best option is to talk to his doctor which is the best choice because if that doc is any good they should know how to handle every situation that comes with benzos that is exactly why not all docs prescribe them because they dont know enough about them and dont want to be held responsible if shit hits the fan and anxiety can be beat before and even after benzos well IMO depending on how long you use benzos and what kind of damage it does to you this is what happens with anxiety unless you have a underlying medical condition that can cause anxiety, it can be beatable we subconsciously induce the attacks believe it or not negative subconscious thinking->fear->adrenaline rush=panic attack better known as the fight or flight response which is actually normal the human body can do some crazy shit to protect itself now remove the neg SC thinking and fear = reduction of adrenaline which = less and less anxiety after a yr of psycho therapy i finally understand the best thing to do help or kill anxiety all together....as cliche as it sounds is to face your fears fear is very powerful once you fear something its difficult to reprogram your brain to make it understand the shit you have anxiety about is not a threat and the funny thing is only 8% of all the fucked up things we think are gonna happen does indeed happen only 8% ... we have a better chance of getting a hand job from beyonce before all the fucked things we think about does actually happen not saying beating anxiety will happen over night it is a war on its own we are basically fighting ourselves for no reason lol if you really think about it that sounds like the dumbest shit in the world and the fact of the matter is it is stupid again fear can be a very powerful emotion if you let it

deos68, I agree with you. Well put. The best part is, we're both right. In the end, it's all in your head . I am going to look into what you pointed out. Nice post! By the way, I was not picking on your post. It just seemed like a jumping off point. I am really going to look into that psychotherapy.

 

[jessieholy]

Thanks for all you guys information.

 

[deos68]

deos68, I agree with you. Well put. The best part is, we're both right. In the end, it's all in your head . I am going to look into what you pointed out. Nice post! By the way, I was not picking on your post. It just seemed like a jumping off point. I am really going to look into that psychotherapy.

dont let the word "psycho" in the therapy fool you its not as bad as you think
and no we're good im here to help everyone who i think i can
and yeah read about it and check out exposure therapy

well see here's the thing when i started i thought it was a bunch of crap like on tv and mid way through treatment
every single thing that i ever brushed under the rug was brought out
more like the doc ripped out all my fears, emotions and placed them right in front of me
but did in a way that i could handle it ....not sure how to explain guess thats why im not a psych doc
its some good shit imo i wold recommend it find a good doc that does it though

 

[deos68]

Deos68 hahah comparing benzos to a hot piece of ass was a perfect way to describe it holy shit lol!

hahaha see im not crazy

 

[pally pete]

In all the years I have been reading about the type of issues I have, I have never come across an honest person who has fully recovered from anxiety and been drug free at the same time. Does anyone disagree?

I fully agree.

No amount of working, keeping busy, exercise, good diet, has ever helped my anxiety. Even lifestyle changes have had little impact.

 

[deos68]

I fully agree.

No amount of working, keeping busy, exercise, good diet, has ever helped my anxiety. Even lifestyle changes have had little impact.

have you been medically checked out?
ever get tested for anything? thyroid issues among other issues can create anxiety and yeah that might explain why nothing works

 

[crunchyplanets]

HELLO GOOD PEOPLE!

This is the first time i have taken any benzo but have been taking ssri's and Propranolol for 6+ years for GAD which I have suffered since a small child.

I am currently taking 5mg 3 times daily (Diazapam) and have been doing so for just over 2 weeks. I feel as though these are exactly what i have needed for years! After living with a constant feeling of anxiety/irritability which effects my life and everyone in it, mostly my wife, children, work and i no longer have any friends due to anxiety, it feels like i now have a real chance of getting my relationships back on track.

I really want to avoid dependence and never want to be in the situation where i have no choice but to take them just to stem withdrawals. I was reading the forums and researching Benzo's even before started taking them so i do have some knowledge of what i am getting myself into. I understand that probably the best way to use Diazapam is to just take it 'as and when needed' But because my issue is GAD which is very much a constant issue (unlike panic disorders) I feel that it would be impossible to take it this way

I have a couple of ideas of how i could go about this and would really appreciate some advice from others who have an understanding of my situation.

1 3 weeks taking 5mg x 3 times daily - then a week off taking Propranolol 20mg 2-3 times daily

2. 4 days on (5mg x 3 times daily) - then 3 days off (propranolol 2-3 times daily)

Once I start to feel as though I need to up my dose of Diazapam instead I will taper down over a a period of a month and have a month of abstinence and start again on either method 1 or 2.

Thanks for reading and any serious input is very much appreciated

I was taking xanax, for 7 months. Never any more than .5mgs a day. (And as far as i know, xanax (alprazolam) is the shortest acting benzo). I NEVER used daily, and I marked on the calendar what days I used it. I have GAD, panic disorder, and ADHD. I was ALSO getting CBT. I took my last dose on October 8th. My panic attacks are gone. I learned to minimize my GAD problems with the CBT techniques I learned. I am un medicated currently. I also have a child and work 40 hours a week, it was tough those 7 months. The most I used in a week was 4 pills, totalling 9 in a month for April. I learned not to use 4 pills in a week because the rebound anxiety SUCKED when taken that close together, for me anyways.


I would HIGHLY , HIGHLY, HIGHLY suggest CBT. Maybe see if you can get a counselor who does hypnosis. I loved hypnosis, it's very relaxing. You can record it and then play it at night to help fall asleep. Not everybody will agree with me, it's just my personal experience.

Xanax was a band aid. CBT was a life changer for me.

I know you didnt ask about xanax, but they're in the same family. Alprazolam and diazepam.

Good luck to you, it's a hard road, but with the right techniques you'll make it through to the other side and come out a different person.

 

[Valz4GAD]

GAD is really not something that can be addressed "as needed". It does not turn off. I share your diagnosis as well as some others. I was first prescribed diazepam in 2004, then switched to klonopin soon after. Within a year I was on the dose that I am on to this day. The thing I would like to suggest you ponder is time. IME - the first year or so of treatment I could not miss a dose, but in time, my overall psychology changed, and I began to experience a better quality of life. GAD can decrease/improve over time. Now it is fair to say that I can take my medication on more of a "as needed" basis. I have skipped many days over the years altogether. I did not experience the dreaded WD from benzos I hear so much about.....That is not to say they are not real, I have no doubt they are, I would not want to be taken off this medication. I'm just saying that after a couple years of living with less and less of the urgent discomfort of GAD, the need for the by the clock style dosing has lessened. Of course everyone is different, and this may not happen in your case, which is something to think about as much as any other thing i have written. The risk of being taken off your meds is something to consider very seriously. Insurance, money trouble, or in my case jail, make cold turkey a possibility always. There is risk there, serious risk. With that said, thinking of my life before benzos, one which I dreaded every day, every knock on the door, every ring of the phone, etc....I would make the same choice today. To me living with GAD was not living at all. Whatever the cost ends up being, to me, it will have been worth it. If my life ended today due to use of this med, or due to unfortunate results of being denied it, I would call it fair, as I have gotten to live over a decade in a way I never would have without it. I wish you the best.

i love this post and completely identify with what you are saying . GAD is a constant issue that affects every aspect of our lives, in so many ways i dont need to list them. i am buying my top quality diazepam from a trusted seller so can quite easily buy a years supply at a time. But this is not something i want to have a conversation about as i know the potential risks of not having it prescribed. I am not interested in abusing either, i just want the relief from my anxiety and i believe once i have had a break from the anxiety and my life starts to improve i too will be able to switch to something else and take more 'as needed' as you are. I am fully aware and accept that the chances of me living with GAD for the rest of my life is extremely high so if i can just stay strong, ensure i keep my dosage under control I can use benzo's to improve my quality of life. I have read the scary stories on benzobuddies etc, but as you say, if i can get at least 10 years of living life as an almost 'normal' person before crashing and burning I wont feel sorry for myself and will have no regrettes. I am at a point in my life now where i have no choice, i need thicngs to change, otherwise i will eventually give up.

I am just considering how to go with the meds. my tolerance to diazapam has built up slightly which worries me. I am considering finding a new suitable dose and stayingn there to keep me on an even keel while using something like xanax at times when i know i will feel very anxious.

Would the antidepressant effects of xanax also allow me to taper of the sertraline (SSRI) so im not naving to take so much stuff. Im already tapering off propranolol.

Why Klonopin - this seems very popular??

 

[Valz4GAD]

I have been checked out for thyroid issues thanks for the advice though

 

[deos68]

I have been checked out for thyroid issues thanks for the advice though

vitamin deficiency? or a deficiency in something else ? you would be surprised how simple chemical imbalances can wreck havoc on your CNS
a shitty diet can cause anxiety, and stress can also play a major factor if that is the case lifestyle changes can do you some good
maybe it can be something as simple as taking vitamins or something OTC
i would keep searching

 

[Valz4GAD]

My diet is good for definite. I will definitely look into the vitamin issue but I am very sceptical to say the least. I find it very hard to believe that an issue as complicated as this is due do a vitamin deficiency. It's more likely to be mind related. I'm still open minded though so thanks again for the info. Oh and I do have a stressful life. The only things I could do to change my situation are not viable. I need to learn to cope with my current situation.

 

[MocCozmiK]

I've been on Xanax (2-3mg) at night for the past 7 years. I am currently tapering. I have found that taking about 1.5-2mg Xanax, melatonin, and amitriptyline(20mg) has helped improve my sleep. Next week I plan on going down to 1-1.5mg xanax with same amount of amitriptyline and melatonin

 

[MrRoot]

Has anyone tried, heard someone trying or even heard about electric shock treatment for GAD or drug resistant depression?

This has came back as the knowledge of brain functions has increased since early 1900's when electric shocks were used in psychic wards daily but discontinued as it was considered to be inhuman and as there were more options with drugs.

Nevertheless current electric shock therapy is given under analgesia unless it is done with very mildly. Also it is possible to have electrodes implanted in ones brains by surgery and to use mild stimulation through a box you carry with you all the time.

I have seen few people using these and they can get rid of GAD or depression with a flick of a switch.

 

[deos68]

Has anyone tried, heard someone trying or even heard about electric shock treatment for GAD or drug resistant depression?

This has came back as the knowledge of brain functions has increased since early 1900's when electric shocks were used in psychic wards daily but discontinued as it was considered to be inhuman and as there were more options with drugs.

Nevertheless current electric shock therapy is given under analgesia unless it is done with very mildly. Also it is possible to have electrodes implanted in ones brains by surgery and to use mild stimulation through a box you carry with you all the time.

I have seen few people using these and they can get rid of GAD or depression with a flick of a switch.

ive read articles but me personally wouldnt be comfortable walking around all day zapping the shit out of myself haha
i honestly dont believe anxiety is something that cant be cured
there is something hidden in the depths of hell within ourselves that causes the anxiety
the reason why therapy is always recommended is because thats exactly what a therapists does well a good one anyway
they find out what the fuck is making you go "crazy" so to speak and come up with ways to help you fight it

if you werent born with mental issues then you have a 99% chance on beating anxiety but many dont wanna take that journey they just wannasay ehh fuck it give me medication which is fine but me personally dont wanna depend on anything like benzos
i still love xanax and diazepam but the pros dont outweigh the cons in the long run

 

[MocCozmiK]

I have heard of the electroshock therapy for resistant treatment depression and anxiety, but I also heard it is expensive as ¥#%!
Insurance doesn't cover

 

[jl82]

Has anyone tried, heard someone trying or even heard about electric shock treatment for GAD or drug resistant depression?

This has came back as the knowledge of brain functions has increased since early 1900's when electric shocks were used in psychic wards daily but discontinued as it was considered to be inhuman and as there were more options with drugs.

Nevertheless current electric shock therapy is given under analgesia unless it is done with very mildly. Also it is possible to have electrodes implanted in ones brains by surgery and to use mild stimulation through a box you carry with you all the time.

I have seen few people using these and they can get rid of GAD or depression with a flick of a switch.

I haven't personally tried it but it was certainly recommended to me by my GP! Not as first line - I'm asthmatic so I didn't qualify for a beta blocker, and I was honest in saying I'd abused benzos before so she did not give me any. Instead she referred me to cognitive behavioural therapy (I am about 5 weeks in and whilst it is refreshing to talk to a therapist about my problems, I am not sure how it has helped my "style of thinking"... sometimes I just feel down...) but my GP did say that electro shock therapy is still in use and can be used in severe cases of depression (and perhaps anxiety, maybe if they are comorbid). I've never heard of anyone who's undergone it though, so it'd be interesting to hear but it's certainly offered on the NHS...

As for OP - sorry to hear you feel as such! Hope the thread as helped and I'm glad you are using the propanolol for your GAD (and hope it works). As for the valium question, I would only repeat what others have said: approach benzos with caution. I've had 2 loads of benzo WD's now for different ones and they suck balls. But if you are considering cycling them every 2-3 weeks (say use your beta-blocker as prescribed) and then a week of same dose valium (for fear of building it --> tolerance) then to me it sounds OK. I would still advise seeing a GP or someone you know who's a healthcare professional about it because we all build tolerances at different rates and each are more susceptible to abuse, differently. The only advice I've ever gotten given (and I see it hasn't worked for some, above) is the regular: have a balanced diet, set a daily regimen you stick to, exercise, go for walks instead of getting the bus, get a regular sleep cycle going etc.

Long story short- I like that you have thought into a tapering programme, and everyones different, but for me I think I would cycle the valium for a week, week a half (two max) at that dose and then the propanolol for 2-3 weeks just to avoid you having to keep tapering in case of WD's but defo try to discuss this with someone who is more qualified than I, or at least, you know yourself better than I do!

Happy holidays!