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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Best way to cycle benzo's to beat tolerance

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Valz4GAD

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
18
HELLO GOOD PEOPLE!

This is the first time i have taken any benzo but have been taking ssri's and Propranolol for 6+ years for GAD which I have suffered since a small child.

I am currently taking 5mg 3 times daily (Diazapam) and have been doing so for just over 2 weeks. I feel as though these are exactly what i have needed for years! After living with a constant feeling of anxiety/irritability which effects my life and everyone in it, mostly my wife, children, work and i no longer have any friends due to anxiety, it feels like i now have a real chance of getting my relationships back on track.

I really want to avoid dependence and never want to be in the situation where i have no choice but to take them just to stem withdrawals. I was reading the forums and researching Benzo's even before started taking them so i do have some knowledge of what i am getting myself into. I understand that probably the best way to use Diazapam is to just take it 'as and when needed' But because my issue is GAD which is very much a constant issue (unlike panic disorders) I feel that it would be impossible to take it this way

I have a couple of ideas of how i could go about this and would really appreciate some advice from others who have an understanding of my situation.

1 3 weeks taking 5mg x 3 times daily - then a week off taking Propranolol 20mg 2-3 times daily

2. 4 days on (5mg x 3 times daily) - then 3 days off (propranolol 2-3 times daily)

Once I start to feel as though I need to up my dose of Diazapam instead I will taper down over a a period of a month and have a month of abstinence and start again on either method 1 or 2.

Thanks for reading and any serious input is very much appreciated
 
And the rest of the time I live like a irritable and unhappy, destroying my relationship and showing my kids how to be stressed? Thanks for the answer but as I have already said, I'm looking for an alternative method other than what you are suggesting (even though I know it's the best way to use)
 
I've done some more Reading. I think maybe 4 week on - 2 week taper - 2 week off. Using propranolol, valerian and kava kava. Does this sound reasonable? Do you think this will prevent tolerance and any major withdrawals even after doing this for 10 years?
 
Valz4GAD said:
I've done some more Reading. I think maybe 4 week on - 2 week taper - 2 week off. Using propranolol, valerian and kava kava. Does this sound reasonable? Do you think this will prevent tolerance and any major withdrawals even after doing this for 10 years?
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In my experience this is a bad idea all round. All that starting, tapering, stopping, starting, tapering etc etc will not leave you feeling in a good way. After 10 years you'll most likely be a mess!

Sooner or later you will find yourself experiencing uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms and then the Propanolol and what not will have very little benefit if any at all.

Either take as needed, and if that means everyday then be prepared for the consequences when you decide you want/need to cut down/quit.

I once thought I could dodge addiction, tolerance and withdrawals if I used just at weekends. I was wrong.
 
My apologies to OP. As you can see there are various methods of doing what you ask. My original answer is still correct, but otherwise, start a real slow taper. For some, this is not complicated and others this is complicated. If as needed is not good enough, a taper that slightly lowers your dosage level is next, best, uncomplicated thing. Valz4GAD, if you don't mind me asking, where is your dosage at now? You've been using for 10 years. I have been using for 8 years and I am good on it.
 
you can avoid building tolerance but once benzos has its grips on you ....its like turning down a good piece of ass
best thing to do is re evaluate your situation and see if a anti depressant will do a better job IMO benzos should be your last resort
andi say this because you are taking a hefty dose and for many diazepam lingers onto the next day
benzos are RECOMMENDED for short term use never long term because tolerance and dependency quickly builds in a little as of a month of use what the docs dont tell you
IME ive been taking xanax randomly over a course of a year no issues whatsoever but because i have a pretty strong will power
i only take it when i feel like i have to go to the ER or when i feel like crawling out of my skin

if you search through this site you will see all the horror stories and lets face it withdrawal isnt a matter of IF but WHEN
limit yourself to maybe one or 2 days a week and thats it benzo tolerance will reset itself but only with big breaks in between
i would honestly wouldnt try the method you are thinking of doing its still way to much diazepam

hard to tell if you will exp rebound anxiety if you stop using diazepam after 2 weeks of use
best thing to do is go down to 2 times a day and if you feel like shit then it would be better to start tapering off a bit
but then again you might not exp anything due to the crazy half life diazepam has

in the end were are some random people on the internet always best to talk to your doc
if he put you on valium he should be able to help you if you begin to have issues
15mg in one day isnt a huge dose daily but its not a small one neither

now thinking about it after re reading you have way more than 15 mg daily in your system because of the crazy half life it has
sure my math is wrong lol but 15mg day the half life is about 48hrs so in 2 days of daily 3x 5mg you would have 20+mg still active keep doing the math and you get the picture someone correct me im pretty drunk atm
 
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I have been sat for a few hours now reading the horror stories. I have only been using diazepam daily for 2 weeks so I really am very lucky at the moment in that I am at a point where I can choose to carry on or leave without the withdrawals. All I know is that I have been living with GAD for as long as I can remember. I feel that it has already negatively affected my life in many ways and is continuing to do so. Diazepam is being a massive help and I wish I could take it every day. This is such an important decision and I'm really struggling to find the answer at the moment. Can I be happy using diazepam daily for 10 years? Increasing my dosage when needed. Then do a very slow taper and come out the other side at least feeling the same as I did before starting this or if I make the decision to take the drug am I just sentencing myself to problems that just aren't worth the ten years of happiness? If that makes any sense. Thankyou for helping me!
 
Valz4GAD said:
I have been sat for a few hours now reading the horror stories. I have only been using diazepam daily for 2 weeks so I really am very lucky at the moment in that I am at a point where I can choose to carry on or leave without the withdrawals. All I know is that I have been living with GAD for as long as I can remember. I feel that it has already negatively affected my life in many ways and is continuing to do so. Diazepam is being a massive help and I wish I could take it every day. This is such an important decision and I'm really struggling to find the answer at the moment. Can I be happy using diazepam daily for 10 years? Increasing my dosage when needed. Then do a very slow taper and come out the other side at least feeling the same as I did before starting this or if I make the decision to take the drug am I just sentencing myself to problems that just aren't worth the ten years of happiness? If that makes any sense. Thankyou for helping me!
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trust me brother its not worth it in the end benzos are a band aid and we all knows what happens that same band aid that helped us..it gets dirty but trust me it wont be the same as "its like pulling off a band aid" try lexapro the on set is much quicker than all the others and ween yourself off of the diazepam
and this is coming from a person who loves diazepam low key i had the same thoughts in my head as you
literally sat there and thought....well if i can get some relief now ill deal with the bullshit later again not worth it

life is never easy only thing you can do is roll with the punches and figure out a way so that those same punches dont sting as bad

i went into the dark corner of my life that i never thought i would ever exp me thinking the only relief or way out was to ....well im sure you can imagine wha i was thinking
but here i am
 
I've already tried two other ssri's and although I do believe they help, they don't really kill the anxiety. Maybe to a certain extent but not enough. Besides the irritability and stress issues that are really affecting my relationships, social anxiety is another major factor for me. I struggle to look people in the eye sometimes and can barely have a conversation because of racing thoughts etc. Diazepam seems to take all of this away. Just why is it not worth it? I feel like a normal person for the first time in my adult life. This is something absolutely amazing for me. What issues will I be facing if I taper properly in 10 years that will make me regret this decision now? I fully respect what you are telling me. I just can't see yet how I could have any regrets. Will I lose my mind forever of I do this? Will I destroy my life? Please make me understand how it goes. Thanks again!
 
I would still like my last post answering please as it's important for me to understand but the sensible voice in my head at the moment is saying I guess I just need to be strong and take just twice a week. Maybe just 1 x 10mg day late morning. Maybe use 5mg in times of extreme need. Go to docs and ask him to up my propranolol as I'm only on 20mg anyway.
 
When you say you have been dosing for 8 years, what dose are you up to now? Do you take it daily? Are you scared about withdrawals? Do you plan on tapering soon? What negative effects do you have from being on so long When you say you are good on it, do you mean it still helps a lot and feel happy with it? Sorry for all the questions but I do really appreciate all the advice!!
 
simply put withdrawal and the physical side of things compares nothing to heroin withdrawal do you really want to put yourself in that position ?
i dont know you but do you really think i would take time out of my day to tell you all this>
 
I think that's what I needed to hear. Thanks for taking your time to write it!
 
In all the years I have been reading about the type of issues I have, I have never come across an honest person who has fully recovered from anxiety and been drug free at the same time. Does anyone disagree?
 
deos68 said:
simply put withdrawal and the physical side of things compares nothing to heroin withdrawal do you really want to put yourself in that position ? i dont know you but do you really think i would take time out of my day to tell you all this>
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I tried my best to read and understand the entire thread. This is highly subjective. Basically, philosophical: relating to the way a person experiences things in his or her own mind. Based on feelings or opinions, rather than facts. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subjective . I myself have been using benzodiazepines of long and short duration, for roughly 8 years. I had a few breaks, sometimes mandatory. There is nothing like tapering off 3 solid Mg's of Clonazepam, in five days, after a long( subjective; longer than three weeks) period of usage, without gearing up for withdrawal, then staying off that dosage for 8 months. Three Mg's may not sound like much, but all our heads are different. That is an example of the wrong way to do it and a rough period of time. I had the body aches, but taking a withdrawal to the dome is the worst part. You are not guaranteed seizures like some people get, but you walk a very thin line of keeping from having one. When you are in the depths of withdrawal, you would be surprised what works in a pinch. Say what you will, but depending on who you are, things like Valerian, chamomile, Kava, etc, even if merely by will power, can help alleviate some symptoms. A placebo is a real thing. Let me interrupt myself by saying this is all subjective. My pain may be your pleasure. What is complete torture for me, may be a slight bother to you. By you, I mean whomever this may concern. The point I am making is, we are all different. If you compare all the stories and clinical research, you may find a common theme, but that is a suggestion. I am one example. What I do, works for me. It works for me, due to my unique experiences and my state of mind. You might have a different set of feelings and are wrapped up in your benzodiazepine of choice, or primary benzodiazepine. Whatever the reason or situation, your situation is maybe 65% textbook, carbon copy benzodiazepine usage, 20% how the bulk of Bluelighters use benzodiazepines and 15% your own special, unique pattern of usage. Therefore, your withdrawal is different. The absolute best way to say, I've been on this devil drug, or however you view benzodiazepines, for too long, it's time to get off or reduce usage, is a slow titration with a long acting benzodiazepine like Clonazepam, Valium or something that hopefully your doctor is giving you. Not all of us have that luxury. A simpler way to put it is, a withdrawal that you can tolerate, that hopefully gives your body time to adjust while you are withdrawing. You can withdrawal, in a painful way, by the skin of your teeth, or nice and smooth, as long as you're progressive about it. I suggest you/whomever check out www.benzobuddies.org . Here you will get an idea of how many ways a withdrawal can go. This thread has a lot of subjective views, including mine. www.benzobuddies.org , will start you off in a correct direction and realistic direction. A well informed person, will have a much better withdrawal from benzodiazepine drugs. Please PM me, if I can help you or whomever wants some suggestions. Thank you Bluelighters, for all your views on this subject.
 
Speed King said:
I tried my best to read and understand the entire thread. This is highly subjective. Basically, philosophical: relating to the way a person experiences things in his or her own mind. Based on feelings or opinions, rather than facts. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subjective . I myself have been using benzodiazepines of long and short duration, for roughly 8 years. I had a few breaks, sometimes mandatory. There is nothing like tapering off 3 solid Mg's of Clonazepam, in five days, after a long( subjective; longer than three weeks) period of usage, without gearing up for withdrawal, then staying off that dosage for 8 months. Three Mg's may not sound like much, but all our heads are different. That is an example of the wrong way to do it and a rough period of time. I had the body aches, but taking a withdrawal to the dome is the worst part. You are not guaranteed seizures like some people get, but you walk a very thin line of keeping from having one. When you are in the depths of withdrawal, you would be surprised what works in a pinch. Say what you will, but depending on who you are, things like Valerian, chamomile, Kava, etc, even if merely by will power, can help alleviate some symptoms. A placebo is a real thing. Let me interrupt myself by saying this is all subjective. My pain may be your pleasure. What is complete torture for me, may be a slight bother to you. By you, I mean whomever this may concern. The point I am making is, we are all different. If you compare all the stories and clinical research, you may find a common theme, but that is a suggestion. I am one example. What I do, works for me. It works for me, due to my unique experiences and my state of mind. You might have a different set of feelings and are wrapped up in your benzodiazepine of choice, or primary benzodiazepine. Whatever the reason or situation, your situation is maybe 65% textbook, carbon copy benzodiazepine usage, 20% how the bulk of Bluelighters use benzodiazepines and 15% your own special, unique pattern of usage. Therefore, your withdrawal is different. The absolute best way to say, I've been on this devil drug, or however you view benzodiazepines, for too long, it's time to get off or reduce usage, is a slow titration with a long acting benzodiazepine like Clonazepam, Valium or something that hopefully your doctor is giving you. Not all of us have that luxury. A simpler way to put it is, a withdrawal that you can tolerate, that hopefully gives your body time to adjust while you are withdrawing. You can withdrawal, in a painful way, by the skin of your teeth, or nice and smooth, as long as you're progressive about it. I suggest you/whomever check out www.benzobuddies.org . Here you will get an idea of how many ways a withdrawal can go. This thread has a lot of subjective views, including mine. www.benzobuddies.org , will start you off in a correct direction and realistic direction. A well informed person, will have a much better withdrawal from benzodiazepine drugs. Please PM me, if I can help you or whomever wants some suggestions. Thank you Bluelighters, for all your views on this subject.
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but case in point you DID exp WD plain and simple..... to what degree maybe it was manageable for you
very well put what is horrendous for me might be a walk in the park for you
the thing is our adventure is always gonna be different
i stated we can give info to a certain degree but always take what you read online with a grain of salt and the best option is to talk to his doctor
which is the best choice because if that doc is any good they should know how to handle every situation that comes with benzos that is exactly why not all docs prescribe them because they dont know enough about them and dont want to be held responsible if shit hits the fan

and anxiety can be beat before and even after benzos well IMO depending on how long you use benzos and what kind of damage it does to you
this is what happens with anxiety unless you have a underlying medical condition that can cause anxiety, it can be beatable
we subconsciously induce the attacks believe it or not
negative subconscious thinking->fear->adrenaline rush=panic attack better known as the fight or flight response which is actually normal
the human body can do some crazy shit to protect itself
now remove the neg SC thinking and fear = reduction of adrenaline which = less and less anxiety

after a yr of psycho therapy i finally understand the best thing to do help or kill anxiety all together....as cliche as it sounds is to face your fears
fear is very powerful once you fear something its difficult to reprogram your brain to make it understand the shit you have anxiety about is not a threat
and the funny thing is only 8% of all the fucked up things we think are gonna happen does indeed happen only 8% ... we have a better chance of getting a hand job from beyonce before all the fucked things we think about does actually happen
not saying beating anxiety will happen over night it is a war on its own we are basically fighting ourselves for no reason lol
if you really think about it that sounds like the dumbest shit in the world and the fact of the matter is it is stupid
again fear can be a very powerful emotion if you let it
 
GAD is really not something that can be addressed "as needed". It does not turn off. I share your diagnosis as well as some others. I was first prescribed diazepam in 2004, then switched to klonopin soon after. Within a year I was on the dose that I am on to this day. The thing I would like to suggest you ponder is time. IME - the first year or so of treatment I could not miss a dose, but in time, my overall psychology changed, and I began to experience a better quality of life. GAD can decrease/improve over time. Now it is fair to say that I can take my medication on more of a "as needed" basis. I have skipped many days over the years altogether. I did not experience the dreaded WD from benzos I hear so much about.....That is not to say they are not real, I have no doubt they are, I would not want to be taken off this medication. I'm just saying that after a couple years of living with less and less of the urgent discomfort of GAD, the need for the by the clock style dosing has lessened. Of course everyone is different, and this may not happen in your case, which is something to think about as much as any other thing i have written. The risk of being taken off your meds is something to consider very seriously. Insurance, money trouble, or in my case jail, make cold turkey a possibility always. There is risk there, serious risk. With that said, thinking of my life before benzos, one which I dreaded every day, every knock on the door, every ring of the phone, etc....I would make the same choice today. To me living with GAD was not living at all. Whatever the cost ends up being, to me, it will have been worth it. If my life ended today due to use of this med, or due to unfortunate results of being denied it, I would call it fair, as I have gotten to live over a decade in a way I never would have without it. I wish you the best.
 
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