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Belief in god or not?

Okay...being a...'whatever' spirituality (agnostic with atheist and pantheist sympathies), I should elaborate on a concept I find philosophically useful that my Christian friend tends to identify as "god" (I even hold a type of reverence for it):

There is some body of conditions of possibility for all existence, both empirically and in terms of those conditions allowing for logic, concepts, etc. to emerge. In some sense, this body of conditions of possibility is 'logically prior'* to all that exists, all concepts it leads to, logic (and the space of possible axioms underlying any system of logic), and even the distinction between existence and nonexistence (for this relies on conceptual distinction in some sense)

*(I say 'logically prior' in irony-quotes because these conditions of possibility are not subject to logic or any other conceptual distinction, for they are what allow them to emerge).

My friend calls this "god", but it doesn't really resemble other gods people have described to me. It might be all-encompassing in terms of conditioning everything that emerges, and it might be 'eternal' and radically free in not being contingent on any empirical phenomenon or constraint of logic. It can be considered mystical, as use of our concepts cannot capture these conditions of possibility fully (so yes, all of my above description is clumsy pointing at something which is inherently inexplicable). Consequently, extra-symbolic mystical states (including psychedelics), meditations on logical contradiction, and other attempts to punch at the limits of conceptualization facilitate engagement with 'the conditions', but they always elude our analytical ability in some sense.
Hence the use of allegory so common in religious myth, the focus on contradiction and blankness in zen, the centrality of contradiction in the Holy Trinity, etc.

I personally like to think of these conditions of possibility as an indeterminate flux generative of an arbitrarily extendable set of actual phenomena but limited to and exhausted by no set of them. I guess this sort of idea may be extracted from Pragmatist philosophy (particularly James and Dewey), but I haven't yet seen it in explicitly theological writings.

This seems pretty different from a lot of "gods", as it is precludes anything even vaguely anthropomorphic. It's not even intelligible to speak of these conditions as having a will, desires, judgements, etc. If 'the conditions' had any such attributes, it would entail that they lack those characteristics which lead to their function in conditioning existence; an anthropomorphic god would be too small and even petty. And 'the conditions' certainly wouldn't hold normative opinions about how humans should relate socially.**
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How is this pantheist? One could say that these conditions of possibility are 'inherent' in every actual phenomenon in existence, as all existence emerges per the possible avenues of development conditioned by them; in some sense, all existence is latent in those conditions. And we are the result of 'the conditions', a culmination of many latent possibilities coming to realization, where the universe writ whole begins to examine and act upon itself. How is my position atheist then? 'The conditions' I describe do not 'exist' (as we usually conceive of existence), because as was mentioned, they function to cultivate existence (and the division between it an nonexistence) in the first place. And because these conditions are beyond description, they don't truly exist even as an idea, nor can they in principle. This not only points to an atheist moment but also perhaps to the concept of "void" common in Eastern spirituality.
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So you tell me: is this a "god"? If not, what is a god?

ebola
**well, one could argue that normative guidelines emerge in that one may submit to and evenly actively cultivate the development of those latent possibilities, but judgment of what constitutes "development" and what qualifies as stagnation or devolution rests on our personal (and social) judgments (and desires, goals, ethical commitments, etc.), not any property of the universe as a whole.

I would describe that as the transcendental aspect that exists beyond quantum zero point.

A question that I have pondered though is, can that transcendental aspect be aware of the other side of that quantum emergence, and still be transcendental?
Or does it have to isolate itself outside of time to maintain that state.
 
I have a very long and complicated history with God, still have a complicated relationship with religion. a lot of religious trauma, a lot of questions...but that being said, i feel the healthiest spiritually than I've ever felt before. but I had to divorce Christianity, at least the Christianity you see here in America. I had to abandon my parents "god". and after years of asking and praying and begging and praying and a lot of pain and turmoil this is all that I believe...

God is love

and it's beautiful. its so simple.

but seriously the Bible has been translated so many fucking times there's no way we know wtf is going on at all. I mean no one knows what happens when we die and that fact to me is just mind blowing. no one. not one person alive has actually died.

but I truly believe for most of us, it's going to be beautiful, a rebirth.

and for the sick motherfuckers, rapists, murderers, etc wellĺlĺl I hope it's so much worse than I can imagine.
 
I have a very long and complicated history with God, still have a complicated relationship with religion. a lot of religious trauma, a lot of questions...but that being said, i feel the healthiest spiritually than I've ever felt before. but I had to divorce Christianity, at least the Christianity you see here in America. I had to abandon my parents "god". and after years of asking and praying and begging and praying and a lot of pain and turmoil this is all that I believe...

God is love

and it's beautiful. its so simple.

but seriously the Bible has been translated so many fucking times there's no way we know wtf is going on at all. I mean no one knows what happens when we die and that fact to me is just mind blowing. no one. not one person alive has actually died.

but I truly believe for most of us, it's going to be beautiful, a rebirth.

and for the sick motherfuckers, rapists, murderers, etc wellĺlĺl I hope it's so much worse than I can imagine.
I can relate. Raised catholic. Confirmed in the religion (mostly against my will to make mom happy). Never really was into prayer until I got into AA.

Went many years telling myself that all of it is made up and there is no god

I mostly believe God is a metaphor - love/light/spirit of the universe/whatever. I also understand that God is beyond my comprehension.

I find the idea of death as a long sleep rather comforting honestly but wouldn't be upset if there is some sort of reincarnation. Years of methamphetamines' abuse has me missing out on many a night of restful bliss and I wouldn't mind making it up :). The idea of reincarnation is also intriguing and in line with the idea that we are here so god can experience godself.

I can understand your desire for the sick motherfuckers out there to experience something more terrible than you can imagine but I'm not sure it's ultimately healthy to want bad things for others (even my probation officer or mother in law) which is not to say I never wish harm upon others - just that I find it better for my mental health to pray for compassion for them and that they find their way. Definitely easier said than done, but I leave punishment up to a power greater than myself and believe that if god is love than punishment isn't the right word.

I pray daily now because it helps me feel less anxious, listless, discontent. I don't know if there is a thing listening to my prayers but also I think that as creative beings even if there is no "God" it isn't out of the realm of possibility that our very thoughts of god are enough. Not sure this makes sense but it's just what I think about sometimes and I don't think about it all too often anymore but your post kind of spurred some sort of reaction.
 
I can relate. Raised catholic. Confirmed in the religion (mostly against my will to make mom happy). Never really was into prayer until I got into AA.

Went many years telling myself that all of it is made up and there is no god

I mostly believe God is a metaphor - love/light/spirit of the universe/whatever. I also understand that God is beyond my comprehension.

I find the idea of death as a long sleep rather comforting honestly but wouldn't be upset if there is some sort of reincarnation. Years of methamphetamines' abuse has me missing out on many a night of restful bliss and I wouldn't mind making it up :). The idea of reincarnation is also intriguing and in line with the idea that we are here so god can experience godself.

I can understand your desire for the sick motherfuckers out there to experience something more terrible than you can imagine but I'm not sure it's ultimately healthy to want bad things for others (even my probation officer or mother in law) which is not to say I never wish harm upon others - just that I find it better for my mental health to pray for compassion for them and that they find their way. Definitely easier said than done, but I leave punishment up to a power greater than myself and believe that if god is love than punishment isn't the right word.

I pray daily now because it helps me feel less anxious, listless, discontent. I don't know if there is a thing listening to my prayers but also I think that as creative beings even if there is no "God" it isn't out of the realm of possibility that our very thoughts of god are enough. Not sure this makes sense but it's just what I think about sometimes and I don't think about it all too often anymore but your post kind of spurred some sort of reaction.
well I see your side with the not wishing ill will on people but I truly see it as part of my healing.

I used to hate the idea of hell and the thought of a loving God throwing people in it. it just did not compute. I also used to use the idea of "hurt people hurt people " to excuse others actions and behavior towards me. and I am talking about literal evil bad people. rapists, murderers especially child rapists and murderers. I mean fr the depravity of humans...it knows no bounds. but before I was spiritually healthy I just did not understand that there are people that deserve to pay for what they've done.

on the other side of things...

I struggle a lot with intrusive thoughts. there are things that I have never told anyone and probably will never tell anyone about for example, what I think about to have an orgasm. it is a sickness. but this shit is unwanted and idk what happened to me but it fucked me up fr. so in the Bible it says (and I'm def paraphrasing here) but basically it says If you think impure evil thoughts its just as bad as doing them. that shit terrified me. I thought I was just as bad as the rapists and murderers. it's taken me years to get to a place where I understand that I can't necessarily control intrusive thoughts or the effects of abuse or whatever. idk there's a lot to unpack.

idk I just believe it was a healthy step in the right direction to be "righteously" angry or whatever you want to call it.

but I have so much more to say on the topic I'll have to revisit later.

also, I def believe we manifest our own realities and I do believe that will be a continuing trend in death

pss catholicism..I can't imagine! I have a hard enough time and I went to a non-denominational church which is pretty tame in comparison. but I think all religion is pretty counterproductive.

Jesus didn't like religion either?? idk why more people don't understand this.
 
How does one define "God"? It's very subjective obviously but in my view, everything and everyone is "God", we are all expressions of consciousness manifested into a physical form.
 
I struggle a lot with intrusive thoughts. there are things that I have never told anyone and probably will never tell anyone about for example, what I think about to have an orgasm. it is a sickness. but this shit is unwanted and idk what happened to me but it fucked me up fr. so in the Bible it says (and I'm def paraphrasing here) but basically it says If you think impure evil thoughts its just as bad as doing them. that shit terrified me. I thought I was just as bad as the rapists and murderers. it's taken me years to get to a place where I understand that I can't necessarily control intrusive thoughts or the effects of abuse or whatever. idk there's a lot to unpack.
I think if we could see inside each others heads/thought-streams we would all be quite shocked by what we see. But only for a brief time, until we realize what's actually going on.

People get hung up thinking that the thoughts inside our heads all belong to us, which I believe isn't actually the case. All thoughts are collective thoughts and we tune into them like a radio station. And when it comes to sexuality and its relation to thinking, this is perhaps the biggest frustration and has been throughout all recorded history - do we think other highly sexed species e.g. dolphins, get hung up about it? It helps to remember that you didn't design this, nor did you ask for it, but yet nature relentlessly requires it (sexual output).

I don't believe in evil thoughts, or evil as defined by religious belief. I think everything serves a purpose, including unseen forces, and that there's particular and defined thought-forms that nature uses throughout the animal kingdom. But for whatever reason humans have developed a far greater degree of autonomy in being able to manually adjust the dial on the receiver, of which we are but vaguely aware, but subsequently has allowed us access to both 'heaven' (refined thought, invention, insight) and 'hell' (applying thoughts in an improper context).

What gets us tangled is that we think we are at fault, that we're doing this and therefore we should be able to stop it (but can't). Then we invoke angels and demons, or God, to try and make sense of our ignorance. But if you calm yourself down and reflect, how can these thoughts be you? If you are observing something (thought) then you are not the thought but the thing watching it. That takes a lot of the sting out of it.
 
I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.


--- Mark Twain
 
I try to believe without attachment.
I don't believe but I don't not believe more.

Prior to 5-meo-DMT, I placed too much weight in very specific ideas about God and death.

Now, I still lean towards those ideas but I don't presume to know the answers to these questions anymore because I need to let everything go (including fear of death and nothingness) in order to truly purge.

It's very hard to say whether or not we believe in God and life after death because we want to. The desire (to believe this) is very strong in some people.

Believing there is something after life might encourage me to not squeeze every last drop out of the time I have on this planet... then, what if I'm wrong?
 
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