Anti-Narcissism

[dosesfromcinco]

I missed like everyone I wanted to see because I got so fucked up. It was my first really big festival. Still managed to see Tenacious D, Weezer, Stevie Wonder, Jay Z, and some others.

I can't tell you how many different festivals I've just wasted my admission on getting stuck around a tank or workin the lot. Wasn't til my last few years hitting fests that I really started to go to festivals just for my own enjoyment of the music.

 

[deficiT]

I've never been diagnosed or talked to a doctor about it but I feel this at least somewhat represents how I feel a lot of times. I really do have intentions to be a good person, nobody with sociopathic tendencies really wants to be that way I would think. It's just the way your brain is wired. I just feel emotionally disconnected from a lot of things that most other people aren't. I grieve in super weird ways, like when someone I know passes away, it certainly bothers me but never like it bothers others. I grew up in a very very manipulative household so it has certainly been embedded to me as a response to defiance, and I hate it about myself. It's the first thing that pops into my head and I have to fight the thought.

I can understand that. I had a very chaotic childhood and exhibited pretty much all of the traits in early childhood up until now. Violence, crime, abuse, all of these things. I have never framed it in such a way medically before, but currently I'm working up to talking to my doctor about it. It pretty much takes someone dying for me to feel anything. Now that I'm sober this is very much even more so. I feel like the sensation seeking through various impulsive behavior and substance abuse has truly controlled me for a while, and a lot of this has bled into all of my interpersonal relationships. It is very hard for me to feel close to anyone, and I really don't know how to act or feel emotions like a normal person.

So yeah, it's a tough thing. No one really wants to be this way, but you're either born that way or become that way through life experience. I can see both for myself, as I exhibited all of these traits even before some personal tragedies happened in childhood.

 

[deficiT]

I can't tell you how many different festivals I've just wasted my admission on getting stuck around a tank or workin the lot. Wasn't til my last few years hitting fests that I really started to go to festivals just for my own enjoyment of the music.

Haha I got thrown out of a Black Tiger Sex Machine show in Baltimore once for being drunk and rolling balls so hard before I even got into the venue. I was literally just standing there I guess my eyes looked fucked up. It was such bullshit I spent the evening in the car.

 

[Foreigner]

Yeah I did a couple deep dives, one of which I spent most of the time in public and it was pretty overwhelming. Ended up at the food court of the local mall because my buddy I was tripping with was the type of guy who could eat forever when he tripped, I was usually the opposite. I just remember being so overwhelmed with paranoia as it seemed like everyone in this packed 250+ people was staring directly into my soul, whether they were facing me or not they had big googlie eyes like the ones you glue on paper just stuck to me. As my paranoia grew, all of a sudden I started to experience all kinds of shit that wasn’t actually happening, I started hearing sirens and then everyone’s eyes got crossed out like someone who dies in cartoons, oh yeah, everyone at this point looked more like a cartoon than a real person. Once I got over the peak of that trip though I remember it being one of the most enjoyable afterglows I’ve ever had on LSD.

Sorry but I question if you were actually on 2.5mg of LSD when that happened. Every person I used to "deep dive" with, if we took 500mcg or higher we were unable to walk for at least the first 3 hours (in my case more like 4-5 hours). All we could do was lay there. After that, walking was possible, but the world was unrecognizable, which is why we always had to be indoors.

The idea that you could walk around a mall food court and observe people seems kind of farfetched to me. For me, 1mg of LSD makes the material world practically unrecognizable. We had to have food pre-made and ready to eat on plates because we didn't even understand what food was or how to assemble it into a meal.

Also, what you're describing at the mall especially the paranoia does not sound like an LSD trip.

Are you sure you were on LSD?

 

[Foreigner]

I've never been diagnosed or talked to a doctor about it but I feel this at least somewhat represents how I feel a lot of times. I really do have intentions to be a good person, nobody with sociopathic tendencies really wants to be that way I would think. It's just the way your brain is wired. I just feel emotionally disconnected from a lot of things that most other people aren't. I grieve in super weird ways, like when someone I know passes away, it certainly bothers me but never like it bothers others. I grew up in a very very manipulative household so it has certainly been embedded to me as a response to defiance, and I hate it about myself. It's the first thing that pops into my head and I have to fight the thought.

Sociopaths are not inherently bad people. The problem is that, in relationships, you have no emotional core guiding the choices you make with how you interact with the other person, so you can do something that hurts them. Humans, even empathetic ones, have major internal defense mechanisms that make them turn away from things that make them feel uncomfortable, such as having to face the fact that they hurt somebody. Sometimes, the emotion of guilt is the only thing that makes you turn back to the person and face what you did. Otherwise, it's easy to tell yourself any story you want and write off the other person. Without that emotional response causing you pain and inner conflict, I don't know what incentive there would be for most people to face the discomfort of what they did wrong, other than real material consequences like loss of the partner, loss of material resources, loss of reputation, etc. They need to see real-time bad shit happen to them because their inner core doesn't inform them.

That's why I think the cluster B folks cause a lot of harm in relationships. They lack an independent emotional identity centre to inform them that they fucked up, and just how bad they fucked up (on a scale from 1-10). My past partner who was a narc, it didn't fully register with him how bad he had hurt me until I was threatening to leave and never speak to him again. You know, real consequences. Until that point, my emotional appeals or attempts at logic were all refuted because he was unable/unwilling to look at the problem. I could see his blind spot but he simply couldn't. I felt bad for his disability but I ultimately had to protect myself.

Another example... he owed me $5,000. It was clear-cut owed, no ambiguity. I hounded him for two years and he just didn't respond or pretended it wasn't a problem even though we had a written agreement that the money was owed. Finally I contacted his mother about it and told him that I was about to get a lawyer involved, and he sent me the money 24 hours later simply because he was embarrassed to be seen badly by his mother who had no idea any of this was happening. It's the only thing they understand -- real, life-ruining consequences. They don't give two shits how you feel or how you've been inconvenienced. They simply can't.

 

[dosesfromcinco]

Sorry but I question if you were actually on 2.5mg of LSD when that happened. Every person I used to "deep dive" with, if we took 500mcg or higher we were unable to walk for at least the first 3 hours (in my case more like 4-5 hours). All we could do was lay there. After that, walking was possible, but the world was unrecognizable, which is why we always had to be indoors.

The idea that you could walk around a mall food court and observe people seems kind of farfetched to me. For me, 1mg of LSD makes the material world practically unrecognizable. We had to have food pre-made and ready to eat on plates because we didn't even understand what food was or how to assemble it into a meal.

Also, what you're describing at the mall especially the paranoia does not sound like an LSD trip.

Are you sure you were on LSD?

It was certainly LSD, it was liquid, it was just not the cleanest crystal evidently. My friend was fine. I was experiencing the paranoia because it was being amplified by feelings I already experienced in my daily life and fear of going to prison

I had also been attending festivals and tripping on LSD pretty regularly during that time period.

EDIT: Just read your next post. the girl I was dating and actually was trip sitting me and my friend that day turned out to be a narc, which is I think a large portion of what contributed to my paranoia tripping around her. It was like a fire alarm going off in my head telling me I needed to get the fuck out of there.

 

[dosesfromcinco]

I used to eat strips and walk around festivals on a pretty regular basis for a year or two before I saw all I needed to see, so the idea that 500mcg would be that intense would only be a reality if you had a very low tolerance or were just more receptive to LSD I guess.

 

[Madness]

Has anyone anything else to say?

I find this a very interesting thread.

 

[kiely]

I guess it can depend on the disposition of the said person. That's all I got though. So that isn't really completely anti however is, a possibility.

It's difficult to explain but if someone doesn't give you a reason to be mad at them then there isn't really a problem. To make it as simple as possible I

guess.

I wonder why this would be a topic. Lol. Hmm.

It would however be interesting to figure out though. k. ^^^

 

[Madness]

It's difficult to explain but if someone doesn't give you a reason to be mad at them then there isn't really a problem.

The spirit of your idea makes sense, the whole it doesn't matter until it does. But when does it become a problem? When the world as you know it is being burnt to the ground and suddenly you can't get groceries anymore?

My perspective has slightly changed since the beginning of the thread - I'd like to note that sometimes things can be working around you and are not obvious until it's too late.

Regardless if this chaos is intentional or merely a "wake of destruction" from being careless, if left unchallenged (or untreated), things will eventually get out of hand.

 

[lecroute]

It's not like severely autistic people are pleasant to be around. I'd much rather hang out with a narcissist.

You definitely wouldn't like to be around me when I'm not in the mood to be "nice". And I'm only so much of an autist (means not severely, but not slightly, either).

I think because narcissism is linked to self-love and most of people dont know how to love themselves.

There's truth in that for some reason self-love is not seen as something good. Despite all the self-help books and videos and what therapists say, the social imprint of many societies built on dogma(ta) with the goal to become one big fluffy pink ball of love in the afterlife still lingers.

Absolutely. I don't believe in dehumanizing any group, including racists. It just pushes them further away.

Racists, political/social/religious extremists, mentally ill people, neurodivergent people, criminals, ... are individuals with more than one facette to them. To discriminate them is nothing else than to discriminate the loving, law-abiding, pillar-of-society father or mother of 2.5 children for being so boring (because who knows, right?)

My perspective has slightly changed since the beginning of the thread - I'd like to note that sometimes things can be working around you and are not obvious until it's too late.

Unfortunately I have to go now, but I will keep on reading this thread. Maybe my perspective will change, too.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

If you look at the story of Narcissus and Echo in mythology, it’s pretty spot on of what can become of a Narcissist & their partner

 

[kiely]

OP quote " It seems like society only approves of hatred towards a handful of mental illnesses: narcissism / sociopathy / psycopathy. "


When it starts to have a significant enough effect on others it becomes and issue (or problem).

When it effects others enough to become a problem then yes it becomes significant enough to have a label (or definition). explanation.

It seems to be putting into a category and having a definition for a label. With all of the symptoms signs or tendencies.

And society might not be having hatred issues but more like it takes a village to adapt properly to others.

I think it is mostly to try to define a specific amount or specific signs or tendencies and the severity and effects in life (or society).





It is still difficult for me to understand how it would make sense to the OP. And for me to reply right now.

Also I don't think that everybody is anti narcissist because there are functioning and appropriate narcissists and other diagnosis's out there that do just fine. Unless it all becomes a significant enough problem that needs to be addressed.

But again I was just trying to find an understanding that would make sense to the OP. And say that I am not really sure really sure right now. k.

 

[kiely]

The Original Post is interesting also because it seems to be addressing anti narcissism and I am trying to explain . . . this is how I feel

BUT I wonder if the OP might be able to understand how it would also . . . make sense to me.

~~~~~

However that being said there can be many ways to explain a specific diagnosis. Such as a narcissist. Then there seems like there can be many specific opinions and incidents. And many examples Lol.

But also specific and traumatic impressions on everyone as well !

~~~~~~

It was very creative how the original post was stated, however. I tried.

 

[Madness]

@kiely I feel you, it's valid what you're saying. It's hard for me to synthesize all of this information and perspective take on everyone here. But I think, personally my key points are:

- diagnosis is based on severity / harm to self and others (which I think is part of your point correct me if I'm wrong)
- treatment and understanding is lacking by professionals and others who read only the top Google articles

- no one is completely helpless, however removing ourselves from dangerous or toxic situations is our right and absolutely valid

 

[kiely]

@kiely I feel you, it's valid what you're saying. It's hard for me to synthesize all of this information and perspective take on everyone here. But I think, personally my key points are;

- diagnosis is based on severity / harm to self and others (which I think is part of your point correct me if I'm wrong)
- treatment and understanding is lacking by professionals and others who read only the top Google articles

- no one is completely helpless, however removing ourselves from dangerous or toxic situations is our right and absolutely valid

Wow. Very nice, once again. lol

I will keep trying. brb asap.

 

[kiely]

Well more interactions, communication and efforts ( as a society of course ). a large populace. And a look at the whole picture for a specific perspective as a focus.

ttyl

 

[Madness]

Fa sho

Takes an open mind to empathize.

We should never stop trying to understand the things going on around us. And ourselves in turn

 

[kiely]

~~~~~~~~~~~~

And you might want to hang out with the crowd and

say hello to all of the people that are nice to you.

Try to hear what someone's saying.

Make people laugh and make them feel good too.


Try not to feel weird and so what if you do.

Learn this, as young as possible the better, but never stop.


Clean non toxic healthy environments can help a lot

and trying to contribute to them.


And to don't murder. But also to acknowledge that some people do have a problem.

And this has to be communicated in some way and the best way as possible we could strive for.


~~~~~~~~~


Get in there, say hello to everyone that is nice to you . lols. But, yes, not go out of your way to overcompensate from being insecure or scared. Find something to feel good about and

strong about. Try to find something that you can feel comfortable about now. Ingratiate people in your life and make them feel this and that and make them smile. And see if

you can relate to it.

And even be comfortable with being distant maybe. And sometimes just don't hang out. Don't want to hang out, but just say hello to the right people. The ones that

are nice to you. The ones that you feel comfortable with. This might be awkward to get that feeling sometimes to not be a social butterfly also all of the time. Try to float by and walk by

certain things. Or have an in- common or close people hang out. Get through your own personal battlefield.

Find a common denominator with others. Or perform solo. A lot of people can go out and about and are doing their own thing. Try to feel comfortable in your own skin. And to feel

good enough in your own room. And don't let thinking that maybe you are not good enough keep you from life. But know that you are and that anything you do can be what a

comfort is also. Put time and effort into something you can excel at. And be able to know it. Of all of the things that you do, be more right about something than you are

wrong. Focus on yourself a lot instead of always redirecting the focus on others. Be able to focus on yourself instead as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


So where are you located and living at ! Try to figure out what is happening. And what you are doing. And actually having these certain feelings many times in your life.

Asking yourself what is not matching up to what is going on and the intentions in your head with the world around you. What the fck is happeining and why are we here. And

what scares you. And not wanting to have to stay somewhere with others that have discrepancies and that will always digress. Stereotyping people that you somehow make

friends with then. Try to not be on the loose and be right where you want to. Try to tune into the stranger things that you can be as a person. But also get used to things and

then they won't be weird after a bit. And it's really not weird after a bit when it really becomes the norm. Some people are not on the loose. They don't need tape. They are right

there.

This is your school. And know how to learn to be good from it now.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



It's interesting. Not the mob mentality but that same psychology of like when you are . . . like when something is unusual it is unusual but when it becomes the status quo it is

what it is and you adapt quickly and there are so many things that are shocking to us and this is something you can learn from with a self awareness which is a behavior, your

behavior.

If you are in that world around us that makes us scared or confused or uncomfortable it often times isn't the issue. It's that it didn't meet our expectations.

Often times our subconscious expectations, so we are kind of shut off but once this is like this and is what it is . . . then you realize this is what it is. A big skill set to adapt is

to accept that like this thing isn't always a problem and you just have to recognize that often times it could be but what it is and trying to adapt quickly by it all building up to

something and just not out of anywhere. Starting from a foundation. And to be kind of scared straight into it.

If you want to connect to people you want to be able to figure out how.

And that some people just have disorders that have to be explained somehow.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It is an interesting thread and I am just looking at somehow a way to be able to function and to find out about it all throughout. It's just talking I guess but

interesting to find out about. I guess, be grateful to be able to learn from it. I guess you can find something to change your life for the better too by being part of something to

experience for the better, and for better times. Have a place to go, maybe like to be part of a certain community. Try to find others that you feel like you can be friends with and

to have a place where you can always go to have a community that are in it all together. Where you all can have a common goal, where you can have this common thing,

where I do well and you do well and we are rooting for each other. And it's a competitive workout. Don't try to obstruct everything all of the time. Find a way to deal with

aggressiveness. Find a way to release what is inside I guess. Try to avoid things of non interest. Have fun hobbies. Identify what works and be able to function with. Find

something to be good at. Try to see how other people see you. Learn who supports you properly. Try to understand why you feel like you are the best ! What makes you what you are. Try to figure out what

your thoughts are. Learn self education along with knowledge and growth. Don't let anyone try to put you down. Find positivity somewhere where you won't get f'd up. And try to understand what you

know. Don't let someone try to tell you who you are to try to change your identity. Find a home where your heart can be. Try not to let your identity get crushed from your

emotions as well.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



I guess just don't get told who you are before you figure it out yourself. Figure out how much work it will be to be able to change. So know who you actually are first and know

what you know and then be able to know others. You have to know so much to change the way you are when you are growing. You have to learn things too and realize that

maybe someone, or this, isn't for you. Realize that you don't know anything but can learn. Learn that there are stereotypes all over. Figure out what universe you are staying

alive in. Lol. Realize that you have ailments that can make you stronger. You might just want to be a part of something that you enjoy tremendously. Find something that

doesn't seem like a lonely isolated thing or situation but know that you can do things on your own. But everything is actually not an isolated thing so we all learn adaptation.

Like trying so hard to do so and to do this in this thread.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Share your experiences and be able to learn from that. Look for piers that are good for you and each other. Have some pot luck once in a while. Or just keep doing this and

hanging out if it feels real good . . . .Or go for the places for who is going to be there with you. Remember those feelings of just being able to keep on going. Always look for

good friends whenever possible. Be all about collaborating and doing and playing and challenges. And agreeing on that. Just try not to feel lonely and isolated. So try not to

even think that way and to find a good way of starting out. Try friendship everywhere. Understand your emotions. What's better than tuning in with people. And being specific

and certain. See logic. Feel your own value and what it may be. Survive then adapt.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sometimes it takes a long time to do things. Try to have human conversations. Learn how to adapt to being. Extroverted and introverted. Learn personal skills to adapt to

different situations. Feel a value in yourself to do so. Work out pros and cons to feel comfortable with. Try to want to learn to be different and change to be healthy. Try to

make others happy and feel good. Some people won't change unless they are aware that they actually want to, however. Try to feel good using these skills of yours to do so

whenever you can. Some things take years and a lifetime, though. Sell art and or your craft.


~~~~~


And by trying to make the subject and effort of this all, as much as possible, to not be so darn obscure.

And yes also, self-actualize before you judge.

 

[kiely]

tldr;