• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Amphetamine Neurotoxicity and Tolerance Reduction/Prevention II

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Well L-DOPA and a MAO-B inhibitor is likely going to make you a writhing gambling addict far easier than it will fix stim tolerance.
Tianeptine is a interesting as hell drug, but its going to be something I WOULD NOT SUGGEST to stimulant users until more research comes out. NMDA potentiation and upregulation of D3 receptors would be the last thing any stimulant abuser needs, that just spells out worsened addiction.

MPH is protective through a few mechanisms in amphetamine toxicity, but one of its primary advantages is it blocks reactive DA metabolites from entering the synapse. Co-administration in humans might work out as a protective mechanism, but figuring out the doses would be an absolute bitch.

Id say a racetam combined with a nmda antagonist is ideal in the scenario this thread is about this combination will help tolerance; potentiate amphetamine; offer neuroprotection and minimalise the comedown.

Sauce?
 
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Well L-DOPA and a MAO-B inhibitor is likely going to make you a writhing gambling addict far easier than it will fix stim tolerance.
Tianeptine is a interesting as hell drug, but its going to be something I WOULD NOT SUGGEST to stimulant users until more research comes out. NMDA potentiation and upregulation of D3 receptors would be the last thing any stimulant abuser needs, that just spells out worsened addiction.

MPH is protective through a few mechanisms in amphetamine toxicity, but one of its primary advantages is it blocks reactive DA metabolites from entering the synapse. Co-administration in humans might work out as a protective mechanism, but figuring out the doses would be an absolute bitch.



Sauce?

why do you think that about l-dopa and selegine? selegine in itself is not a pure MAO-B inhibitor and has other effects on the brain, which are still being looked into. i've heard such good reports of stimulant tolerance being dissolved relatively easily and quickly with just one dose, as it potentiates the high as well as reducing outstanding tolerance, but you are at risks of psychosis due to all the excess dopamine being available, if we are going on the basis that this what causes it.

indeed tianeptine is fascinating, and i also agree more research is needed to be done. it would most likely potentiate stimulants to a vast effect due to its effect on the nmda receptors.

as for MPH, i have been thinking hard about this one. surely the effects of it being a reuptake inhibitor would cancel out all the positive effects of an amphetamine? what if you were to use cocaine at the same level? why would dosage need to be finely tuned? so that some dopamine can be produced by the receptors but not too much??

oh how i wish our brains could provide themselves with neuroprotective features.
 
why do you think that about l-dopa and selegine? selegine in itself is not a pure MAO-B inhibitor and has other effects on the brain, which are still being looked into. i've heard such good reports of stimulant tolerance being dissolved relatively easily and quickly with just one dose, as it potentiates the high as well as reducing outstanding tolerance, but you are at risks of psychosis due to all the excess dopamine being available, if we are going on the basis that this what causes it.
....
as for MPH, i have been thinking hard about this one. surely the effects of it being a reuptake inhibitor would cancel out all the positive effects of an amphetamine? what if you were to use cocaine at the same level? why would dosage need to be finely tuned? so that some dopamine can be produced by the receptors but not too much??

Well cocaine is a whole different can of worms than MPH, but on a very theoretical only basis it might work.

L-DOPA is something I can't stress enough that people should avoid if they don't have Parkinson's. Unless administered with a decarboxylase inhibitor, its peripheral actions alone will just have you violently vomiting with extremely low blood pressure...

I've seen that first hand, turns out generic Canadian L-DOPA looks just like cheap European asprin. She was ok after though
 
L-DOPA is something I can't stress enough that people should avoid if they don't have Parkinson's. Unless administered with a decarboxylase inhibitor, its peripheral actions alone will just have you violently vomiting with extremely low blood pressure...

What doses of L-DOPA are you referring to here? I have had my fair share in proprietary blends and standalone supplements over the years. I've never really experienced anything too drastic, if at all.
 
Epsilon Alpha, you posted this a couple weeks ago when I asked about the mechanism of meth-induced neurotoxicity. I have a few questions though.

In a previous report, we showed that METH injections (×4 with 2 h-interval) caused dose-dependent activation of striatal NF-κB which is a transcription factor activated by ROS, and that the activation of NF-κB was significantly attenuated in Cu,Zn-SOD-Tg mice [2]. NF-κB promotes induction of iNOS to generate NO, and consequently induce inflammatory cytokines. The generation of NO is involved in METH-induced neurotoxicity in dopaminergic neurons [11] and [12]. NSAIDs exert inhibitory effects against inflammatory mediators-induced increases in NF-κB and iNOS activities, to inhibit NO production [1] and [8]. It is well known that activated microglial cells produce various inflammatory cytokines, i.e. interleukin-1β (IL-1β), IL-6, and NO radicals. Indeed, METH induced expression of IL-1β mRNA in the rat brain [17]. Cadet and his colleagues reported that METH-induced neurotoxicity and gliosis were attenuated in IL-6 knockout mice [14], suggesting involvement of inflammatory cytokines in METH-induced neurotoxic cascade. Therefore, the present results suggest the possibility that ketoprofen might suppress production of inflammatory cytokines and NO, or suppress them indirectly through inhibition of microglia activation, with consequent amelioration of METH-induced neurotoxicity and microgliosis. Further study will be required to clarify mechanism of this protective effects.

This paragraph seems to claim that NO is toxic in this case by inducing inflammatory cytokines, but I can't seem to find any research which says NO does induce inflammatory cytokines; what I've read actually says the opposite. So presumably this effect would occur with abnormally high concentrations, but is this an established effect of nitric oxide? Also, at what point does microglial activation come in? As the synthesis of nitric oxide is induced or as a result of it?

Edit: On somewhat of a side note, is it safe to take american ginseng with amphetamine? Ginseng seems to affect nitric oxide, but if I'm interpreting this research correctly it seems that ginseng would be protective against amph neurotoxicity.
 
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Perhaps I missed it but I'm rather surprised that bupropion hasn't been mentioned as it has some potential for redistributing VMAT2 protein.

Bupropion increases striatal vesicular monoamine transport

Abstract

The vesicular monoamine transporter-2 (VMAT-2) is principally involved in regulating cytoplasmic dopamine (DA) concentrations within terminals by sequestering free DA into synaptic vesicles. This laboratory previously identified a correlation between striatal vesicular DA uptake through VMAT-2 and inhibition of the DA transporter (DAT). For example, administration of methylphenidate (MPD), a DAT inhibitor, increases vesicular DA uptake through VMAT-2 in a purified vesicular preparation; an effect associated with a redistribution of VMAT-2 protein within DA terminals. The purpose of this study was to determine if other DAT inhibitors, including bupropion, similarly affect VMAT-2. Results revealed bupropion rapidly, reversibly, and dose-dependently increased vesicular DA uptake; an effect also associated with VMAT-2 protein redistribution. The bupropion-induced increase in vesicular DA uptake was prevented by pretreatment with eticlopride, a DA D2 receptor antagonist, but not by SCH23390, a DA D1 receptor antagonist. We previously reported that MPD post-treatment prevents persistent DA deficits associated with multiple methamphetamine (METH) administrations. Although bupropion attenuated the METH-induced reduction in VMAT-2 activity acutely, it did not prevent the long-term dopaminergic toxicity or the METH-induced redistribution of VMAT-2 protein. The findings from this study demonstrate similarities and differences in the mechanism by which MPD and bupropion affect striatal dopaminergic nerve terminals.
 
Epsilon Alpha, you posted this a couple weeks ago when I asked about the mechanism of meth-induced neurotoxicity. I have a few questions though.

This paragraph seems to claim that NO is toxic in this case by inducing inflammatory cytokines, but I can't seem to find any research which says NO does induce inflammatory cytokines; what I've read actually says the opposite. So presumably this effect would occur with abnormally high concentrations, but is this an established effect of nitric oxide? Also, at what point does microglial activation come in? As the synthesis of nitric oxide is induced or as a result of it?

Edit: On somewhat of a side note, is it safe to take american ginseng with amphetamine? Ginseng seems to affect nitric oxide, but if I'm interpreting this research correctly it seems that ginseng would be protective against amph neurotoxicity.

I'm kind of lost on that as well, while we know inflammation is bad in regards to neurotoxicity I haven't been able to deduce which step in the process is directly toxic. NO production produces peroxynitrite which is known to induce apoptosis, but I haven't had the time between the move and work to look too deep into the system.

Ginseng and amphetamine is a weird combo with all the reports saying "potentiates this, inhibits that", but so long as you dose reasonably you should be safe. I've seen it done first hand without any issues. Herbs with as many actives as ginseng (gingko as well) are a hard thing to recommend to people, as frankly for every compound that does something in one direction it probably has one that does something in opposition. If you'd like to dig up some studies on ginseng I think that would be a great way to further discussion though :)

Perhaps I missed it but I'm rather surprised that bupropion hasn't been mentioned as it has some potential for redistributing VMAT2 protein.

Welcome to Bluelight :)
Well I'm glad you've brought this up, it does counteract VMAT2 uptake deficiencies however in humans it seems the issue is more VMAT2 localization changes. I don't have journal access off campus so I can't look into its effects on vesicle localization (amphetamines seem to localize them towards the cell body, away from the synapse). Could you check if they mention it in the paper?

What doses of L-DOPA are you referring to here? I have had my fair share in proprietary blends and standalone supplements over the years. I've never really experienced anything too drastic, if at all.

Like 1970's farmer Parkinson's doses, so pretty high (+200mg). Still, if someone gets a non-bunk batch and is really sensitive to it they're going to have a bad time.
 
Korean ginseng seems to block sensitization of opiates and stimulations; alpha do you think it might be effective for tolerance related issues?
 
How long for dopamine receptors to return to normal after long term Rx Amp Use?

Ok, so I have been abusing adderall at about 250mg a day for 7 days on, 21 days off for about 3 years. Then I took a long break, and have used it only about 10x since then. I no longer get high from the drug. I realize that the dopamine system will re-regulate itself. The last time I used amphetamines was 120mg last wednesday, so about 10 days ago.

I am on 300mg wellbutrin and 20mg ritalin er per day.

How long until my dopamine regulates itself back to normal? I feel fine, but I don't really know because I haven't been off drugs for a while.

I have read many conflicting reports on the internet, but I was hoping someone here could give me a concrete answer.

edit: Ok, so I realize that the dopamine receptors will return to normal, I was just hoping someone could give me a timeline. I have been researching in medical books and it looks like rats return to normal physical activity from 23-27 days after amphetamine injections.
 
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Ok, so I have been abusing adderall at about 250mg a day for 7 days on, 21 days off for about 3 years. Then I took a long break, and have used it only about 10x since then. I no longer get high from the drug. I realize that the dopamine system will re-regulate itself. The last time I used amphetamines was 120mg last wednesday, so about 10 days ago.

I am on 300mg wellbutrin and 20mg ritalin er per day.

How long until my dopamine regulates itself back to normal? I feel fine, but I don't really know because I haven't been off drugs for a while.

I have read many conflicting reports on the internet, but I was hoping someone here could give me a concrete answer.

edit: Ok, so I realize that the dopamine receptors will return to normal, I was just hoping someone could give me a timeline. I have been researching in medical books and it looks like rats return to normal physical activity from 23-27 days after amphetamine injections.

Well DA receptor densities will return to normal after about a month as you found, but things like tyrosine hydroxylase and various transcriptional changes will last much longer. So I'm not sure what kind of answer you want, but from recent literature it looks like it takes about 2 years for things to go back to normal, but as far as getting high again that might be out of the question.

The brain kind of "learns to counteract drugs" which is why tolerance builds so much faster in former users than drug naive individuals, and its a very very complex process.
 
Korean ginseng seems to block sensitization of opiates and stimulations; alpha do you think it might be effective for tolerance related issues?

Mind linking some studies? I've never really given ginseng more than a customary glance because of the variability of extracts.
 
Here's a couple of study's: (i got other compounds in the back of my mind as well but lets take a look at ginseng first.

Wild ginseng attenuates repeated morphine-induced behavioral sensitization in rats.

Lee B, Kwon S, Yeom M, Shim I, Lee H, Hahm DH.
Source

Acupuncture and Meridian Science Research Center, College of Oriental Medicine, Kyung Hee University, Seoul 130-701, Korea.

Abstract


Many studies have suggested that the behavioral and reinforcing effects of morphine are induced by hyperactivation of the mesolimbic dopaminergic system, which results in increases in locomotor activity, c-Fos expression in the nucleus accumbens (NAc), and tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) in the ventral tegmental area (VTA). In order to investigate the effect of wild ginseng (WG) on treating morphine addiction, we examined the behavioral sensitization of locomotor activity and c-Fos and TH expression in the rat brain using immunohistochemistry. Intraperitioneal injection of WG (100 and 200 mg/kg), 30 min before administration of a daily injection of morphine (40 mg/kg, s.c.), significantly inhibited morphine-induced increases in c-Fos expression in NAc and TH expression in VTA as well as in locomotor activity, as compared with Panax ginseng. It was demonstrated that the inhibitory effect of WG on the behavioral sensitization after repeated exposure to morphine was closely associated with the reduction of dopamine biosynthesis and postsynaptic neuronal activity. It suggests that WG extract may be effective for inhibiting the behavioral effects of morphine by possibly modulating the central dopaminergic system and that WG might be a useful resource to develop an agent for preventing and treating morphine addiction.

Inhibitory effects of ginseng total saponin on up-regulation of cAMP pathway induced by repeated administration of morphine.

Seo JJ, Lee JW, Lee WK, Hong JT, Lee CK, Lee MK, Oh KW.
Source

College of Pharmacy, Chungbuk National University, Cheongju, 360-763, Korea.

Abstract


We have reported that ginseng total saponin (GTS) inhibited the development of physical and psychological dependence on morphine. However, the possible molecular mechanisms of GTS are unclear. Therefore, this study was undertaken to understand the possible molecular mechanism of GTS on the inhibitory effects of morphine-induced dependence. It has been reported that the up-regulated cAMP pathway in the LC of the mouse brain after repeated administration of morphine contributes to the feature of withdrawals. GTS inhibited up-regulation of cAMP pathway in the LC after repeated administration of morphine in this experiment. GTS inhibited cAMP levels and protein expression of protein kinase A (PKA). In addition, GTS inhibited the increase of cAMP response element binding protein (CREB) phosphorylation. Therefore, we conclude that the inhibitory effects of GTS on morphine-induced dependence might be mediated by the inhibition of cAMP pathway.

Ginsenoside Rg1 restores the impairment of learning induced by chronic morphine administration in rats.

Qi D, Zhu Y, Wen L, Liu Q, Qiao H.
Source

Neuroscience Program, Shandong University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, Jinan, China.

Abstract


Rg1, as a ginsenoside extracted from Panax ginseng, could ameliorate spatial learning impairment. Previous studies have demonstrated that Rg1 might be a useful agent for the prevention and treatment of the adverse effects of morphine. The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of Rg1 on learning impairment by chronic morphine administration and the mechanism responsible for this effect. Male rats were subcutaneously injected with morphine (10 mg/kg) twice a day at 12 hour intervals for 10 days, and Rg1 (30 mg/kg) was intraperitoneally injected 2 hours after the second injection of morphine once a day for 10 days. Spatial learning capacity was assessed in the Morris water maze. The results showed that rats treated with Morphine/Rg1 decreased escape latency and increased the time spent in platform quadrant and entering frequency. By implantation of electrodes and electrophysiological recording in vivo, the results showed that Rg1 restored the long-term potentiation (LTP) impaired by morphine in both freely moving and anaesthetised rats. The electrophysiological recording in vitro showed that Rg1 restored the LTP in slices from the rats treated with morphine, but not changed LTP in the slices from normal saline- or morphine/Rg1-treated rats; this restoration could be inhibited by N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist MK801. We conclude that Rg1 may significantly improve the spatial learning capacity impaired by chonic morphine administration and restore the morphine-inhibited LTP. This effect is NMDA receptor dependent.

Pharmacological action of Panax ginseng on the behavioral toxicities induced by psychotropic agents.

Kim HC, Shin EJ, Jang CG, Lee MK, Eun JS, Hong JT, Oh KW.
Source

Neurotoxicology Program, College of Pharmacy, Kangwon National University, Chunchon, Korea.

Abstract


Morphine-induced analgesia has been shown to be antagonized by ginseng total saponins (GTS), which also inhibit the development of analgesic tolerance to and physical dependence on morphine. GTS is involved in both of these processes by inhibiting morphine-6-dehydrogenase, which catalyzes the synthesis of morphinone from morphine, and by increasing the level of hepatic glutathione, which participates in the toxicity response. Thus, the dual actions of ginseng are associated with the detoxification of morphine. In addition, the inhibitory or facilitated effects of GTS on electrically evoked contractions in guinea pig ileum (mu-receptors) and mouse vas deferens (delta-receptors) are not mediated through opioid receptors, suggesting the involvement of non-opioid mechanisms. GTS also attenuates hyperactivity, reverse tolerance (behavioral sensitization), and conditioned place preference induced by psychotropic agents, such as methamphetamine, cocaine, and morphine. These effects of GTS may be attributed to complex pharmacological actions between dopamine receptors and a serotonergic/adenosine A2A/ delta-opioid receptor complex. Ginsenosides also attenuate the morphine-induced cAMP signaling pathway. Together, the results suggest that GTS may be useful in the prevention and therapy of the behavioral side effects induced by psychotropic agents.

[Pharmacological and physiological effects of ginseng on actions induced by opioids and psychostimulants].

[Article in Japanese]
Tokuyama S, Takahashi M.
Source

Department of Clinical Pharmacy, School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Showa University, 1-5-8 Hatanodai, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo 142-8555, Japan. [email protected]

Abstract


Pharmacological and physiological effects of ginseng on actions induced by opioids and psychostimulants were summarized. Analgesic effects of opioids, such as morphine and U-50,488H, were blocked by ginseng in a non-opioid dependent manner. Furthermore, ginseng inhibited the tolerance to and dependence on morphine, and prevented the suppressive effect on the development of morphine tolerance caused by co-exposure to foot-shock stress, but not psychological stress. On the other hand, behavioral sensitization (reverse tolerance to ambulation-accelerating effect) to morphine, methamphetamine (MAP) and cocaine was also inhibited by ginseng. Interestingly, ginseng also inhibited the appearance of the recurrent phenomenon (reappearance of the sensitized state was observed at the time of readministration of MAP and cocaine even after a 30-day discontinuation of drug administration) of the effect of MAP and cocaine. The conditioned place preference of MAP and cocaine was completely blocked by ginseng. These findings provide evidence that ginseng may be useful clinically for the prevention of abuse and dependence of opioids and psychostimulants.

Inhibition by ginseng total saponin of the development of morphine reverse tolerance and dopamine receptor supersensitivity in mice.

Kin HS, Kang JG, Oh KW.
Source

Department of Pharmacology, College of Pharmacy, Chungbuk National University, Cheongju, Korea.

Abstract


1. Ginseng total saponin (GTS), 200 mg/kg i.p. 3 hr prior to morphine, inhibited the development of reverse tolerance to the ambulatory-accelerating effect of morphine. 2. GTS, 200 mg/kg, also prevented the development of dopamine receptor supersensitivity induced by the chronic administration of morphine, 10 mg/kg a day for 7 days. 3. These results suggest that GTS may be useful for the prevention and therapy of the adverse action of morphine.

The effect of Panax ginseng on the development of tolerance to the pharmacological actions of morphine in the rat.

Bhargava HN, Ramarao P.
Source

Department of Pharmacodynamics University of Illinois, Chicago 60612.

Abstract


1. The effect of intraperitoneal administration of Panax ginseng on the development of tolerance to the analgesic and hyperthermic actions of morphine was determined in male Sprague-Dawley rats. Rats were rendered tolerant to morphine to different degrees by the subcutaneous implantation of either four pellets of morphine over a 3-day period or six pellets over a 7-day period. Each pellet contained 75 mg of morphine free base. Rats serving as controls were implanted with placebo pellets. 2. Daily administration of ginseng extract (6.25-50.0 mg/kg) for 3 days inhibited the development of tolerance to the analgesic effect but not to the hyperthermic effect of morphine in the four pellet schedule. 3. In six pellet schedule, daily administration of ginseng extract (25 and 50 mg/kg) for 7 days also inhibited the development of tolerance to the analgesic effect of morphine, but the 100 mg/kg dose had no effect. On the other hand, in six pellet schedule, the administration of ginseng extract (50 and 100 mg/kg) once daily for 7 days inhibited the development of tolerance to the hyperthermic effect of morphine. 4. It is concluded that in appropriate doses,ginseng extract has inhibitory activity on the development of tolerance to the pharmacological actions of morphine.

The effect of ginseng extract on locomotor sensitization and conditioned place preference induced by methamphetamine and cocaine in mice.

Tokuyama S, Takahashi M, Kaneto H.
Source

Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Nagasaki University, Japan.

Abstract


Repeated i.p. injections of 2 mg/kg methamphetamine (MA) or 20 mg/kg cocaine at 48-h intervals induced reverse tolerance to their ambulation-enhancing effects (behavioral sensitization). Furthermore, the reappearance of the sensitized state was observed at the time of readministration of MA or cocaine even after a 30-day discontinuation of drug administration. A concomitant injection of ginseng extract (GE), 200 mg/kg, i.p., suppressed the development of reverse tolerance and the reappearance of sensitization to MA and cocaine. Conditioned place preference to MA (1, 2, and 4 mg/kg, i.p.) and cocaine (1, 4, 10, and 20 mg/kg, i.p.), was completely blocked by GE, 200 mg/kg, i.p. combined treatment with MA of cocaine. Meanwhile, spontaneous motor activity and place preference were not affected by GE alone. These results provide evidence that GE may be useful clinically for the prevention of adverse actions of MA and cocaine.
 
Hey, I know I haven't been too active in this thread of late, but here's some of the more interesting topics I've found so far
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390801001654 5HT6 and amphetamine, interestingly enough 5HT6 antagonists are procognitive in animal studies
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-4159.2011.07356.x/full Curcumin and 5HT pathway responses to stress
http://www.springerlink.com/content/h69677w064755083/?MUD=MP A WTF paper on 5HT2A and amphetamine
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2004.03805.x/full A good paper on how amphetamine sensitization isn't all about the dopamine

Been mainly looking at genomic effects on 5HT and mGluR regulation. Ginseng appears to work partly through these pathways too.
 
EA I can't access those full-texts, even with my University login :( Mind posting up some of the key excerpts when you get the chance?
 
A friend of mine said to me that if you begin to take L-DOPA, your natural dopaminergic system won't live more than 15/20 years. The body can recognise exogenous dopamine or what?
 
A friend of mine said to me that if you begin to take L-DOPA, your natural dopaminergic system won't live more than 15/20 years. The body can recognise exogenous dopamine or what?

I don't know if your body can determine the source of the L-DOPA, but it certainly knows when there is too much, and alters enzyme activity, receptor density, sensitivity and a whole bunch of up/downstream factors in the DAergic system. I certainly wouldn't recommend supplementing L-DOPA long-term for no particular reason.

Also, without co-administration of a peripheral DDCI (carbidopa etc), you are gonna get vasodilation (hypotension) and probably tachycardia (it acts as a positive inotropic and chronotropic via B1 receptor activation on the heart) and lots of other nasty side effects, depending on the dose.
 
Buuuuut, sensitization has way way too many links to bipolar disease and schizophrenia for my liking. Granted it may also be involved in some of the benefits seen in long term stimulant treatment of ADHD.

<snip>

I'm beginning to think that by looking into schizophrenia and bipolar/epilepsy we can begin to find some significant findings for all these conditions.

Ok this seems to be almost a recurring theme in stuff I read about, as far as addiction goes, so I'm wondering if you have any further knowledge on this subject or have articles I could learn more from.

Everyone that I know who has been diagnosed bi-polar, seems to have one of two extremes with drug addiction. Either they're like me, and the couple bi-polar people I actually will associate with, and have it seems no reward response from taking drugs that normally induce rewards. Or they have the exact opposite and have extreme addiction issues, where they -have to have it- and get easily addicted.

Growing up, I always got the "bi-polar people have huge issues with drug abuse fact" ingrained into my head, so I was always nervous about ever experimenting with drugs.

When I finally started experimenting however, all the addictive drugs I've done I have no compulsion to or desire to keep doing if I decide not to. I usually have almost a "reverse tolerance" when I first start using, or after extended breaks from using. When I started using cocaine, I started at ~80 to 100mg lines, and usually on the second day I was down to 30 to 40mg lines because it would get to strong (never doing more than 1 or 1.5 g in a 24hr period). I never have more than a 2 day binge, because I get absolutely sick of it and don't want to touch it again for at least a week or two.

MDMA had a reverse tolerance at first, but I seemed to gain a tolerance until I stopped using it. I only use it once every 2 to 3 months though it's same potency I expect whenever I do, so not sure if reverse tolerance would kick in again.

Ampehtamines similarly have no compulsion to do unless I have a use for them.

After a few months without adderall, and no desire to use cocaine, and the caffeine triggered hypermanic states were starting to cause problems, I finally tried oral meth. Usually 15 to 35mg range. No desire to redose, or use when not necessary. A gram of meth lasts me 6 months easily using one or two days a week.

Opiate and benzo tolerance seems to work as expected, and I usually just stop using them when the regular dose stops working. Have no desire to keep using when it no longer gives me a euphoria.

Another thing I've noticed, is that almost every time I take a drug, a usually make a comment like "I forgot how good this feels", even if I used it a few days prior.

It's as if my body stores no recollection of the euphoria given by a drug. When I'm in a depression phase, I'll be sitting at my computer, needing to work, having absolutely no desire to work, and absolutely no desire to do a line of coke even though I know it would help. The depression completely overrides even the "want" to do it to help me do my job.

The only other people I've ever spoken to with similar experiences as me also are diagnosed bi-polar. Never met anyone who admitted to being schizophrenic, and I've definitely seen some bi-polar people with drug abuse issues. However there seems to be a link in my eyes between bi-polar and addiction at both extremes. Another pattern I noticed is that bi-polar people who have more depression phases, and rarely or never get hypermania are the ones who don't get addicted, while the ones who are more often hypermanic and less often depressed seemed to easily get addicted.

The only drug I've ever had a problem quitting is nicotine. Quit once for 3 months, and a few times for a couple weeks. But if I decide to smoke 1 after going a couple weeks, it's back to smoking daily.

I know I've brought this up at bluelight before in other threads, but I still haven't gotten a satisfactory conclusion to this curiosity. It's a great trait to have, but with how confusing it is, I have an insane desire to know -why-.

Edit: Side note, is there a link you can share that goes more in depth of the differences between sensitization and tolerance, or would you be willing to describe them a little more? I'm not sure I follow, but as I currently interpret what you're saying, sensitization is an increased desire for it, and tolerance is a reduced effectiveness of it? If that's the correct meanings, it would explain my experience with opiate/benzo to say that I gain no sensitization, but do gain tolerance, correct?
 
EA I can't access those full-texts, even with my University login :( Mind posting up some of the key excerpts when you get the chance?

Well they're more just background reading for 5HTR modulation of stimulant responses, but I'll post the pubmed id's for you :)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11804613

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21689105

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17510759 Basically 5HT2A is involved in "liking" but not sensitization according to this one

Couldn't find ANYTHING else for the last article, but this one covers much the same points. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1464364/
 
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