Harm Reduction All Drugs - Short Half-Life vs. Long Half-Life Drugs

[Oleander]

Just adding for klonopin I love it and prefer it to xanax most of the time. Not sure if I was reading correctly but I had a situation in a detox/rehab a couple of years ago. All other drugs were out of my system in less than a week (heroin/coke/bupe) but I was stuck for two full weeks in there because I still kept testing positive for klonopin, even though I didn’t use nearly enough and for not as long. Just my experience with it

 

[Shant]

Just adding for klonopin I love it and prefer it to xanax most of the time. Not sure if I was reading correctly but I had a situation in a detox/rehab a couple of years ago. All other drugs were out of my system in less than a week (heroin/coke/bupe) but I was stuck for two full weeks in there because I still kept testing positive for klonopin, even though I didn’t use nearly enough and for not as long. Just my experience with it

Interesting. So if these links are to be believed, that must mean Klonopin has a long plasma half life. I remember testing positive for methadone 2 weeks after stopping. They tested me a second time the next day and I was totally clean. Took 4mg of suboxone and hit the deck. Full blown PWD’s. Still don’t understand that one.

As for your preference for Klonopins, tell me about that. I’ve always preferred the punch of Xanax. Pins are more mellow. If you’re in withdrawal, good luck getting to sleep on pins. Xanax is your only chance to catch an hour here & there. But I do agree, pins are nice & mellow if you’re not trying to take it for sleep.

 

[Shant]

Hey.

I'm honored (but be prepared to be alerted by many junk posts of mine too! Lol!).

As I understand it (I personally don't "Follow" anyone but not for any particular reason) (but I tested it once for fun):

You highlight the username on any post by the member. There is then an option called "Follow". Click on the "Follow" button and then you're "following" said member.

You should then get alerts when the member posts. To be sure it's working: you click on YOUR username (at the top right hand side of the screen) and select "News feed" and you will then be presented with a list of all posts made by members that you are "following".

Mostly I try to stay on topic and mostly my posts are about Fentanyl, Benzodiazepines, and Antidepressants (trying to help where I can really). But sometimes I fail dismally and end up going off on tangents or down rabbit holes! So just excuse those posts! Lol!

The honor is mine brother. Go on any tangent or down any rabbit hole you wish. I’m reading all that shit.

 

[Oleander]

Interesting. So if these links are to be believed, that must mean Klonopin has a long plasma half life. I remember testing positive for methadone 2 weeks after stopping. They tested me a second time the next day and I was totally clean. Took 4mg of suboxone and hit the deck. Full blown PWD’s. Still don’t understand that one.

As for your preference for Klonopins, tell me about that. I’ve always preferred the punch of Xanax. Pins are more mellow. If you’re in withdrawal, good luck getting to sleep on pins. Xanax is your only chance to catch an hour here & there. But I do agree, pins are nice & mellow if you’re not trying to take it for sleep.

Don’t get me wrong I love xanax I just was fond of klonopin because it was pretty easy to get a script during that time (compared to xanax) and it would help me sleep after doing coke all hours of the day and night and it was a godsend at that time. Xanax does pack a bigger punch than kpins but in all honesty, I was never into xanax or klonopin on their own and only ever wanted or used them when coming down or trying to sleep.

 

[Shant]

Don’t get me wrong I love xanax I just was fond of klonopin because it was pretty easy to get a script during that time (compared to xanax) and it would help me sleep after doing coke all hours of the day and night and it was a godsend at that time. Xanax does pack a bigger punch than kpins but in all honesty, I was never into xanax or klonopin on their own and only ever wanted or used them when coming down or trying to sleep.

Yeah same here. Benzos aren’t really fun by themselves.

 

[Shant]

To be sure it's working: you click on YOUR username (at the top right hand side of the screen) and select "News feed" and you will then be presented with a list of all posts made by members that you are "following".

Hmmm...I don’t see my avatar at the top right of the screen. But I did follow you so I assume it’ll work.

 

[Shant]

Oh are you talking about that green letter? “S” in my case. Ok I think I’m good. Thanks dude

 

[Oleander]

Well for both of you:

If you take a good look around that Ashton Manual you'll find tables where the dosage equivalents of various benzos. are detailed. I'll take a look and find the table and post the link here in a little while.

If your main and only reason for taking benzos. is sleep I've come up with what seems to be an acceptable "formula" i.e. 1mg (sometimes 2mg) Alprozalam (Xanax) with 7.5mg Zopiclone (usually this is just one pill i.e. I think it's the minimum strength for most all brands that contain Zopiclone but just check) and about and hour before bedtime and BEFORE food. I pretty much feel and operate fine for an hour or two but once the head hits the pillow you're kinda "out" in minutes and very seldom do I wake up during the night. The benzo. hangover ain't too great in the morning but it usually only lasts about a half hour.

I'm not sure where my magical "formula" fits in on the scale of what the two of you are on though (haven't done any comparisons). Tolerance builds quick though I must just warn you (and, based on my personal experience from years ago i.e. becoming unknowingly physically addicted to, at the end, 12mg Alprozalam per day, long story, seems to build a lot quicker when you've already built up a tolerance albeit that it could be years prior) (well this is my experience anyway).

Also worth mentioning I don't take this stuff for fun (only started taking Alprozalam, 2mg per day max., since this COVID shit started in a crass attempt to keep my head together i.e. long story but short version is that COVID was like the last nail in the coffin because of personal circumstances and issues that began beginning 2019). Only reasons I'm making this clear is because a) I'm not abusing them and b) have a PROFOUND respect for benzos. since my physical addiction of some years ago. I don't see any benzo. as a drug of abuse or a means to get high (but each to their own I guess). I'm extremely PRO benzos. and believe they do have a magic therapeutic and valid pharmacological action. And, well, for years they've been a source of fascination for me (in spite of not using) so I read everything and anything I can find on the topic (Fentanyl and its analogs being my latest fascination in spite of my not being a user at all ever other than the odd "test" or "experiment").

I simply make the above clear so that it's clear where my input comes from i.e. it's never in any way drug fueled and I don't advocate the recreational use of benzos. (or Fentanyl for that matter). Benzodiazepines are wonder drugs (same as Prozac in my opinion) but be careful with them and have respect for them because given half the chance and a fair amount of abuse and they will "catch you in the tail" in ways you never expected and when you least expected same to happen.

Thank you for the advice because I’m always looking for a sleeping cocktail because even when I’m not using my sleep is atrocious. I’m not a benzo/pill person as far as addiction though but I know a few people who were (including my mom but she’s been clean for five years). She got pretty bad towards the end and it was a combination of stimulant pills like adderal and benzos. So I try not to downplay pill addiction or abuse because it can be very addictive to some people for sure

 

[dalpat077]

Here's the MAIN link to the site:

THE RESOURCE SITE FOR INVOLUNTARY BENZODIAZEPINE TRANQUILLISER ADDICTION, WITHDRAWAL & RECOVERY

 

[Shant]

Well for both of you:

If you take a good look around that Ashton Manual you'll find tables where the dosage equivalents of various benzos. are detailed. I'll take a look and find the table and post the link here in a little while.

If your main and only reason for taking benzos. is sleep I've come up with what seems to be an acceptable "formula" i.e. 1mg (sometimes 2mg) Alprozalam (Xanax) with 7.5mg Zopiclone (usually this is just one pill i.e. I think it's the minimum strength for most all brands that contain Zopiclone but just check) and about and hour before bedtime and BEFORE food. I pretty much feel and operate fine for an hour or two but once the head hits the pillow you're kinda "out" in minutes and very seldom do I wake up during the night. The benzo. hangover ain't too great in the morning but it usually only lasts about a half hour.

I'm not sure where my magical "formula" fits in on the scale of what the two of you are on though (haven't done any comparisons). Tolerance builds quick though I must just warn you (and, based on my personal experience from years ago i.e. becoming unknowingly physically addicted to, at the end, 12mg Alprozalam per day, long story, seems to build a lot quicker when you've already built up a tolerance albeit that it could be years prior) (well this is my experience anyway).

Also worth mentioning I don't take this stuff for fun (only started taking Alprozalam, 2mg per day max., since this COVID shit started in a crass attempt to keep my head together i.e. long story but short version is that COVID was like the last nail in the coffin because of personal circumstances and issues that began beginning 2019). Only reasons I'm making this clear is because a) I'm not abusing them and b) have a PROFOUND respect for benzos. since my physical addiction of some years ago. I don't see any benzo. as a drug of abuse or a means to get high (but each to their own I guess). I'm extremely PRO benzos. and believe they do have a magic therapeutic and valid pharmacological action. And, well, for years they've been a source of fascination for me (in spite of not using) so I read everything and anything I can find on the topic (Fentanyl and its analogs being my latest fascination in spite of my not being a user at all ever other than the odd "test" or "experiment").

I simply make the above clear so that it's clear where my input comes from i.e. it's never in any way drug fueled and I don't advocate the recreational use of benzos. (or Fentanyl for that matter). Benzodiazepines are wonder drugs (same as Prozac in my opinion) but be careful with them and have respect for them because given half the chance and a fair amount of abuse and they will "catch you in the tail" in ways you never expected and when you least expected same to happen.

Zopiclone, huh? I’m not familiar with that. I wonder if they even have it here in LA...what’s it like? Compare it to Xanax...

 

[Oleander]

Well that's a real nice post of yours and thanks for posting it. And for sure: sleep deprivation can be every bit as soul destroying as benzo. addiction and withdrawal (probably even worse if for an extended period of time and if you've got personal worries that keep you awake nights). Quite an irony there to be honest. If I had to make the choice: I'd stand for the benzo. addiction and withdrawal and day of the week to be honest. You can at least function on benzos. (dosage and subsequent tolerance dependent) but you cannot function without sleep that's for sure.

I don't know how much reading you've done around here though but there are indeed some horror stories floating around re: benzo. addiction and withdrawal. Sadly: MOST are the result of physicians over prescribing and/or prescribing the wrong benzo. for a given condition. Very few of the addiction and withdrawal posts are from recreational users (that's my guesstimate anyway based on my relatively short time of actively posting around these parts). Some people have been on these things for 20 years and of course because of tolerance building: their physicians have just kept upping dosages (although in fairness and in all probability this for lack of alternate options). That's pretty much what happened to me some many years ago. But I don't blame my beloved GP i.e. I certainly didn't complain over the 4 year period that it took me to go from 0.25mg to 12mg per day! Lol! It's only when I ran out of pills two days before I could get a repeat prescription while on the 12mg that I "discovered" that I was physically addicted to them (didn't even know that such phenomenon existed until that point). Wasn't a pleasant two days (to put it mildly). But in hindsight: wasn't the end of the world either. It was during those two days that I found all of this information and, well, decided then and there to taper off although I didn't substitute Alprozalam for another benzo., as is the commonly prescribed method of tapering, with a longer half life benzo. in order to taper i.e. didn't see the point of that. So my taper was of shorter duration and (as I keep saying probably one of the lucky ones) I don't ever recall having any of the unpleasant and ongoing side effects that others have experienced according to many posts here on the topic. Anyway. That's my story and experience. Guess the point is: it can be done if you have the will and are prepared to accept that it's not an overnight thing and that it's not a competition and there is no prize at the finishing line i.e. you taper in a manner that you yourself are able to cope with. Took me a few months. May take others a few years. Doesn't make a difference at all if the intended end goal is the same. And they're not the "evil" that I've seen them sometimes being described as. And for sure a better option than barbiturates which is what they replaced back in the day.

These pharmaceutical companies should be PAYING me for all of these posts! Lol! Irony of that would be that I'd no longer have the need to take Alprozalam! Lol!

For the record and for what it's worth: in a previous life (like two decades ago) I was a Cocaine and Crack fiend for years before. THAT to me is the definition of a "high". Not this stuff (which is why I have a thread going asking why Alprozalam/Xanax is such a big deal). But each to their own I guess. Fortunately I managed to walk away unscathed from Cocaine back then too (everybody that knows me says I simply have "the luck of the Devil"! Lol!) and save for the above I'm totally clean and have been for years (even stopped my occasional binge drinking early last year). Cannot tell you that I'm better off for all of this abstinence though. Kinda like the fun in life is all gone. But who knows: if I were an addict things COULD be worse I guess. Don't really want to put it to the test! Lol!

Anyways. Thanks again for the post. You take good care of yourself. And respect to you for YOUR respect for pills and the like.

Sleep deprivation is awful and I don’t handle it very well, I guess compared to others, because I’ve had insomnia for a few years now without stimulants and I almost had a couple of breakdowns over it because it affected my daily life so much. And with the doctor and benzo prescribing thing, that’s exactly what happened to my mom who had the pill addiction. She had a mental breakdown when I was growing up and met this doctor at the hospital she was at and he completely fed her with any pill she wanted. I can see someone becoming addicted to pills for sure but The method of just swallowing a pill doesn’t do it for me so it was never my bag. But thank you for thanking me btw!

 

[Oleander]

Yeh listen. Sleep deprivation can be a LITERAL killer i.e. been MANY accounts of plane crashes (hence pilots are SUPPOSED to limited a certain number of flying hours and a strict schedule) and not to mention vehicle accidents etc. It's a study in and of itself actually (although not a rabbit hole I've bothered to go down to any extent). But there have been studies done on this (in particular by the FAA) and some of the side effects are quite amazing e.g. only being able to focus or become fixated on ONE thing at a time (and in the case of pilots not a good idea if there's another gazillion alarms and warnings sounding off)! Lol!

And yeh look: your take is refreshing (on not just swallowing a pill). In spite of my support for all: they take the edge off and make it easier to cope under certain circumstances and conditions. But they don't CURE underlying causes or issues. Matter of fact and in some cases: they MAGNIFY the underlying causes or issues especially once you stop taking them e.g. "rebound anxiety". In my opinion: they buy you time to deal with issues is all. Problem is that sometimes it just becomes easier for people to stay on them so as to NOT have to deal with underlying causes or issues. Unfortunately: the day will always come where tolerance is so high and an increase in dosage is no longer the answer or even feasible i.e. once you're at that point there's no going further over the line because toxicity will be the result and that comes with it's own problems of course (and possible sad outcomes).

I completely agree with the tolerance with pills thing. My mom, and other pill addicts I know, would justify to themselves that they weren’t as bad as other addicts because they were just pills but just as addicted as any other addict. Different form but same devil unfortunately.

 

[Shant]

It's known as a "z-drug" and usually sold under the brand names Imovane or Zolpidem. I know you can get these drugs in the USA but usually (this from some years ago anyway) they'll not prescribe them for longer than a week (something like that) and certainly no six month repeats of the stuff (well that's what I was told by my ex girlfriend who moved to the USA i.e. I had to send her a ton of the things and which, ironically, made it just fine through the postal system, but that was like at least 10 years ago). Essentially these "z-drugs" are an alternative to (and supposedly less addictive) than benzos. (although from some of the posts I've seen around here on the topic I use the word "supposedly" VERY loosely). They're also supposed to have much shorter ACTIVE half lives (the idea being, particularly with Zolpidem, that you take them just before bedtime, they encourage or induce sleep, and you body is supposed to take over from there after an hour or two or three) (that's the theory anyway).

Here's some links for the fun of it:

Zopiclone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nonbenzodiazepine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I wouldn't class them as "toys" either though. And they too have become a drug of abuse around these parts (people crush them up and snort them and for what reason is beyind me) (but I'm pretty sure @Zopiclone bandit will gladly chime in here! Lol!). Some find they leave a horrible metallic taste in your mouth (even the next day) (which I personally do find) but apparently it's brand dependent (it's not that bad though and certainly nothing that you cannot live with).

Ah you’re talking about Ambien, that’s the brand name out here. The generic name is Zolpidem. I’ve been taking it every day for nearly 20 years. More who knows. 10mg every night. That stuff is beautiful. I literally can’t wait til 9pm which is Ambien O’clock. It elevates my mood, makes me
Chatty (probably why I’m even posting this at 5am), and does wonders for withdrawal believe it or not. Goes PHENOMENAL with weed. That’s my sleep cocktail, along with a benzo and 2 somas. It’ll get the job done, boy.

 

[Shant]

They are far less addictive than benzos in my experience btw. I can go a day or two without em, I don’t notice a thing.

 

[Shant]

Ambien. That's right. Forgot about that brand name (very unlike me! Lol!).

Check this out for fun (go figure):

Sleeping pill may rouse coma patients

Paradoxically, the insomnia drug Ambien appears to temporarily restore more brain function in trauma patients, researchers claim

www.newscientist.com

But yeh. Sounds like you're WELL covered when it comes to getting a night's sleep! Lol!

Oh I wish that were true. Tonight I took 6 Ativan 1mg and 3 Klonopin 2mg. Plus the weed and Ambien. And here I am at 5:20am posting on forums. Lol...but I did recently switch to suboxone so I’m sure that’s part of it. Maybe I’ll just smoke more weed. What’s a man to do?

 

[Shant]

Well that was the plan anyway. I'm guessing here but I'm figuring that most that are "hooked" on these z-drugs are POSSIBLY more psychologically dependent than physically dependent (as is usually the case with benzos.). Like I said: I'm guessing (or surmising anyway).

I suspect you might be right. My addiction to them is totally psychological. Not to minimize that, psychological addiction is 10 times harder to beat than physical. But I can picture somebody becoming physically addicted at high dose ranges, like 30mg a day or more.

 

[Shant]

Ambien. That's right. Forgot about that brand name (very unlike me! Lol!).

Check this out for fun (go figure):

Sleeping pill may rouse coma patients

Paradoxically, the insomnia drug Ambien appears to temporarily restore more brain function in trauma patients, researchers claim

www.newscientist.com

But yeh. Sounds like you're WELL covered when it comes to getting a night's sleep! Lol!

Wow that’s crazy! It “activates dormant brain cells”?! Wtf!

 

[Shant]

Ha!

 

[Shant]

Something else that needs to be said about Ambien. It has the strangest side effects. One of them is amnesia. You have literally no recollection of what you did the night before. That CANT be good for your brain. I had a 12th grade vocabulary in the 4th grade, and god only knows what my vocabulary was by the time I got to college. Today? I forget words I’ve known my whole life. Happens weekly. And I’ll be telling a story and then instantly hit the brick wall and totally forget what I was talking about. I literally have to ask the guy I was talking to if he could repeat what I was just saying. It’s so embarrassing. Can’t help but wonder if it’s the Ambien, though there was also the 20 years of daily heroin smoking. I have no idea which to blame. Maybe both?

 

[Shant]

Great stuff as usual, bro. What are your thoughts on the prospect of doing permanent damage by taking this shit? I know im a full step slower than I was before drugs. And im only 43...too soon to be having these memory issues.