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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids A question about methadone.

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I'm a big fan of methadone maintenance and the clinic system in the US where you start with observed dosing at the clinic six days a week and after every 90 days of good behavior and clean UAs you move up the takehome schedule and after two years a goodie-two-shoes can be going in every four weeks to give a UA, see their counselor, and walk out of there with 27 bottles. AFTER TWO YEARS.

Because of the corona-mania and corona-phobia a few of the states have asked for and received permission from DEA to move anyone with a clean UA up to every going 2 weeks (13 bottles) or every 4 weeks (27 bottles) way ahead of the schedule and guess what's gonna happen. Plenty of methadone takehome bottles and Suboxone tablets will be hitting the local economy and even if a person wouldn't ordinarily be selling their doses, we're seeing the fastest economic collapse in world history with up to a third of the working population thrown out of work because of the fake-news corona hoax. But the suffering is real and this is only the beginning of the hard times. If you had a job and could buy your opiates on the black market maybe that'll become more difficult. Maybe you'll look into the opiate treatment programs and clinic system for methadone and buprenorphine. Well, they've made treatment more accessible, and for methadone it's a huge change.

DEA Diversion Control FAQ

Under the old rules in place since 1970, after 90 days a person starting methadone maintenance can apply for one additional takehome (in addition to the Sunday and holiday takehomes for when the clinic is closed). Under the new rules a person with just 90 days of good behavior and clean UAs and a counselor backing them can apparently (leaving it up to the clinic) get as much as a 14-day supply and be going every 14 days. All you need now seems to be a minimum of 90 days and, theoretically, you could be getting the 13 takehome bottles every two weeks that it took me 15 months to earn, 90 days at a time, with clean UAs and a counselor who was backing me at the staff meeting when it came up for discussion. Now they're leaving it up to the individual clinics to divide their compliant patients (meaning clean UAs and following all the rules) into two categories, 14 doses and 28 doses. Wow.

Anyone interested ought to check out the Reddit /methadone https://www.reddit.com/r/Methadone/
 
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wow, I really did not know how a methadone clinic worked, I can understand why strict control, I think I am lucky to live in Argentina ... I started with methadone yesterday and the pills are being given to me by my mother, 5mg pills and they gave her many of them 40 pills to be exact, I don't feel like methadone is recreational, I really wouldn't take something spit out from someone else, but I also don't judge if anyone wants to inject that
 
It makes me feel better, it takes away my withdrawal, but I don't feel it produces a pleasant euphoria, maybe it's just me, but I don't see how someone would buy this to get high
 
Nicocastillo7 said:
Does someone from here find methadone recreational?
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Kind of. At first it was just a free substitute to heroin that kept the withdrawals at bay. But milking the system to get higher doses of methadone resulted in a recreational effect. But like anything else, it doesn't last and eventually turns round to bite your balls off.
 
The people who get a high from this, if they had to compare it with another opioid, what would it be?

I don't know, it makes me feel good, but I have to smoke weed with it to feel something "more" besides it gives me some nausea and marijuana helps me with that, and it's rare, I've used other opiates like oxycodone and morphine and I never had nausea like with methadone, I haven't vomited, it's just mild nausea but I haven't noticed with other opiates
 
I love methadone. One of my favorites and ive tried everything. I was once on 380mg/day for a while.

I'd take it over most opioids, particularly if we are talking about non IV administered opioids. I don't inject anymore so methadone is king for me. Haven't had it in years. The only problem with it is the slow onset, which it makes up for with its long duration.

I havent had it in 10 years. Maybe its not as great as i remember. I have a feeling is that I'd love it even more these days. That said the withdrawal is 2 months of pain.
 
negrogesic said:
I love methadone. One of my favorites and ive tried everything. I was once on 380mg/day for a while.

I'd take it over most opioids, particularly if we are talking about non IV administered opioids. I don't inject anymore so methadone is king for me. Haven't had it in years. The only problem with it is the slow onset, which it makes up for with its long duration.

I havent had it in 10 years. Maybe its not as great as i remember. I have a feeling is that I'd love it even more these days. That said the withdrawal is 2 months of pain.
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I am on methadone maintenance at this time, a very low dose, they are supposed to increase it in a week, if I take it for 3 months (last month reducing)
would I abstinence when it reaches 0?
 
Nicocastillo7 said:
I am on methadone maintenance at this time, a very low dose, they are supposed to increase it in a week, if I take it for 3 months (last month reducing)
would I abstinence when it reaches 0?
Click to expand...

I don't understand your question, you'll have to restate your question, or digame en español (i speak relatively good spanish, portuguese and italian).
 
negrogesic said:
I don't understand your question, you'll have to restate your question, or digame en español (i speak relatively good spanish, portuguese and italian).
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Me dice que el retiro es un dolor de 2 meses, por lo que dijo mi doctor estaré tomándolo durante 3 meses, el ultimo mes seria de reducción, una vez que mi dosis llegue a 0 el ultimo mes... sentiría abstinencia? o después de reducir progresivamente esto no ocurriría?
 
Nicocastillo7 said:
Me dice que el retiro es un dolor de 2 meses, por lo que dijo mi doctor estaré tomándolo durante 3 meses, el ultimo mes seria de reducción, una vez que mi dosis llegue a 0 el ultimo mes... sentiría abstinencia? o después de reducir progresivamente esto no ocurriría?
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Absolutamente vas a sentir abstinencia (probablemente por menos de 2 meses), pero depende de las cantidades. ¿Cuánto estás tomando? En un sentido, más rápido es mejor, porque cuanto más largo, más difícil. La pregunta es, ¿Qué vas a hacer después? ¿Estas listo para eso?

Para ser claro, no estará enfermo durante dos meses si solo lo ha estado tomando durante 3 meses, pero lo sentirá, no será indoloro
 
negrogesic said:
Absolutamente vas a sentir abstinencia (probablemente por menos de 2 meses), pero depende de las cantidades. ¿Cuánto estás tomando? En un sentido, más rápido es mejor, porque cuanto más largo, más difícil. La pregunta es, ¿Qué vas a hacer después? ¿Estas listo para eso?

Para ser claro, no estará enfermo durante dos meses si solo lo ha estado tomando durante 3 meses, pero lo sentirá, no será indoloro
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Estaba pensando en usar kratom luego de terminar el mantenimiento con metadona, la verdad que es desalentador saber que sentire abstinencia luego de esto porque es la principal razon por la cual eh recaido multiples veces, pero sera una abstinencia completa y aguda? O solo algo molesta? Estoy tomando 10mg al dia, quiza aumenten hasta 20 o 30mg y luego disminuyan durante un mes o un mes y medio hasta llegar a 0
 
Nicocastillo7 said:
Estaba pensando en usar kratom luego de terminar el mantenimiento con metadona, la verdad que es desalentador saber que sentire abstinencia luego de esto porque es la principal razon por la cual eh recaido multiples veces, pero sera una abstinencia completa y aguda? O solo algo molesta? Estoy tomando 10mg al dia, quiza aumenten hasta 20 o 30mg y luego disminuyan durante un mes o un mes y medio hasta llegar a 0
Click to expand...

Con esas cantidades no será muy grave, el kratom ayudará, recomendaría 4 g 4 veces al día disminuyendo .5 g por dosis por día. Detente después de una semana.

En muchos sentidos tienes suerte, me duelen los huesos cuando pienso en la abstinencia de dosis altas de metadona
 
negrogesic said:
Con esas cantidades no será muy grave, el kratom ayudará, recomendaría 4 g 4 veces al día disminuyendo .5 g por dosis por día. Detente después de una semana.

En muchos sentidos tienes suerte, me duelen los huesos cuando pienso en la abstinencia de dosis altas de metadona
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Supongo que tengo suerte de que la dosis sea bastante baja y que pueda obtener alivio de eso, supongo que el diazepam juega un papel importante tambien junto a la metadona..
Tratare de conseguir el kratom durante estos meses hasta que la metadona termine, aca en Argentina no se consigue
Sobre lo que preguntaba del uso recreativo, ayer unas horas despues de mi dosis de metadona fume algo de marihuana que me regalo una amiga de su cosecha y senti un fuerte efecto opiaceo durante todo el dia luego de eso, ahora entiendo jaja
 
Nicocastillo7 said:
It makes me feel better, it takes away my withdrawal, but I don't feel it produces a pleasant euphoria, maybe it's just me, but I don't see how someone would buy this to get high
Click to expand...
Nicocastillo7 said:
I am on methadone maintenance at this time, a very low dose, they are supposed to increase it in a week, if I take it for 3 months (last month reducing)
would I abstinence when it reaches 0?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but what you describe is called a methadone-assisted detox if they have you on a very low dose with 5 mg tablets you said, and it lasts three months with the last month tapering down.

That's not methadone maintenance, which is a long-term thing where the patient can stay on it forever as long as they follow the rules of the clinic.

Your mom had 40 of the 5-mg tablets but you didn't say what your daily dose is. If you're feeling nausea then you're almost surely taking more than 5-mg a day.

What happens after they take you up to, what level?, and then down to zero in a few months? Most probably you'll be back to feeling the same lack of happiness that made you seek out opiates in the first place. There is essentially no scientific basis for using methadone for short-term detox. Searching the English internet for Argentina's laws or framework for methadone maintenance came up with nothing for me. Maybe you don't have a legal framework for MMT in Argentina and all they can do is this short-term medication assisted detox.

In the US ever since the early 70s a person who enters the clinic system can stay on as long as they want. If they decide to taper down they can do so and most clinics will let a person go down to as little as 10 mg a day, and they can stay at that low level as long as they want and even change their mind and go up again as long as they have a counselor backing them they can get takehomes or go back to daily attendance if they want which is essential if they want to raise or lower their dose, which is very problematic is a person is getting a sizeable number of takehomes.

In the 70s there was a lot of research showing that methadone at daily doses up to 40 mg was a very effective antidepressant and antianxiety medication. It could be that the benefits you are feeling from those 5 mg pills are exactly that.
 
somnilicious said:
I hate to say that I have been on both ends of this transaction more than I would like to admit. I find it hard to believe that anyone who has spent anytime around a methadone clinic hasn't seen or heard of this practice.
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If it wasn't in a prison or jail, maybe you saw it in a movie or a TV show. The same place where they have people injecting toilet water.

Or maybe it's a class thing, socio-economic status, what have you. Maybe we're living in very different worlds.

The methadone clinic I attended for several years, reaching 13 takehomes after 15 months, was for most of that time self-pay only, no Medicaid or any health insurance accepted. Everyone there was paying $250/month out of their own or relative's or friend's pocket. That made it a very nice place and it's also close enough that it'd be possible to walk there and back every day. The plkace became a real shithole when after it was the last holdout in town resisting the Medicaid expansion and being forced to take Medicaid clients, they started taking patients who had no money, no job, etc. etc. That's when it went downhill really fast. Very very few maybe none of those Medicaid patients were getting earned takehomes, Most of them were on SSI, the federal welfare system for disabled people who haven't worked long enough to be on SSDI. So the clinic went from almost everyone there either working or being on SSDI to the very poor including a good number of homeless people. But for most of that time I was going in only once every two weeks so maybe that stuff was happening and I didn't see it. Cheeking the liquid methadone and then going into the toilet to IV it right there in the clinic. It makes no sense to IV a mixture of saliva and Methadose when the oral bioavailabity is almost 100%. Maybe only a person who would be IVing plain toilet water would add the saliva-methadone to their shot is my guess. Maybe if it's a person you have sex with who shares some of their cheeked dose with you by a long kiss, but that's the limit of my imagining.

There were plenty of times that people would walk out of the clinic with the paper cup holding their dose that they palmed and just walked out with. If a person bought some of those paper cups and practiced palming them, they could be pretty easily diverting the liquid methadone in a paper cup, which would be worth a lot more than their saliva. The nurse pours the cup and like a bartender she'll add more tap water if you like before pushing it under a plastic window and you stand there sipping it and there's a trash bin on your side of the wall for you to throw the cup in but that trash bin isn't in full view of the nurse so you could palm your dose and throw something in the trash and nobody would notice. The nurse has to take that trash and pour bleach over it before throwing it in the dumpster, which they started doing while i was there because people were stealing their trash from the dumpster.

Me taking the cup out with me was sometimes inadvertent because you could stand there and drink it slowly while chatting with the nurse and then just turn and walk out holding the cup in plain view or hiding it depending on whether there'd be a crowd of people waiting in line who could see it. The only real intentional subterfuge I saw there was a guy who rigged up a bladder full of fake clean urine for his UAs. They didn't see him using the bladder but he failed the UA because it didn't have methadone metabolites. They test both for methadone and a methadone metabolite and it tested positive for methadone because he spiked the fake urine with some of his takehome dose, and instead of a total fail, they told him he had to submit a new sample which he didn't expect would happen so he wasn't wearing the bladder and so he failed for being dirty for opiates and benzos and amphetamines three strikes and so they pulled his takehomes because of that one dirty UA after the semi-failed suspicious UA.

So there was some value in being clean for the UAs besides earning takehomes in being able to sell your urine to the less fortunate. Or banking your own urine from a prior time and bringing it in the clinic with you every day. So the bodily fluid being trafficked in was more urine than saliva at that clinic. The dosing was always observed or at least mostly observed, but the giving of urine for UAs was usually done in private after they gave you a bottle to piss in and unlock the toilet door. They'd do an observed UA if you miss two or more days of clinic attendance or if they have another reason which could be just about anything if they suspect you of bringing in urine like that guy with the bladder. So it was pretty easy to substitute old urine for fresh because they didn't have the capability to measure its temperature.
 
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It's far easier to abuse than the pill itself. I am not sure I understand the question but to me it's seems rather useless. So bottom line, you can take methadone however you want. If you aren't homeless that's the best way to go during this whole Pretzel-19. Everything can be infected. But don't over-think it. Relax
 
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