RCs 2 years 3-MMC daily because of severe depression.Danger?Options?

[fatstep]

You said you'll die of a heart attack...not quite..that'd be the easy way out. Unfortunately chronic 5ht2b agonism causes usually PPH post primary hypertension...to make it simple you'll end up "drowning" and suffocate to death. Personally know someone this happened to bc of the fenphen debocale

 

[The King of Beans]

You said you'll die of a heart attack...not quite..that'd be the easy way out. Unfortunately chronic 5ht2b agonism causes usually PPH post primary hypertension...to make it simple you'll end up "drowning" and suffocate to death. Personally know someone this happened to bc of the fenphen debocale

Now you're worring me, lol (I know you were not referring to me but I also binged on 3-mmc and I surely ruined my heart. I have lots of sludge in my body and I get really short on breath)) Is this PPH you're referring to, curable if I abstain from further use? Is it too late for me? I did about 25 to 30 grams of 3-mmc maybe over the last year and a half or so. But I was doing it 3 + times a week for a while. I took mostly lower doses, but i always redosed too. So probably took at least 250 mg on the days I did it. I also abused methylone, 4-fa, and MDMA among many others. If I am going to drown, when will it happen? What if I reverse the disease, how am I going to suffocate, if I am not right now? I admit I am short on breath compared to before I ever did the drugs, but when I am on them I can barely breath at all. It's crazy. I can't believe I was dumn enough to ignore the warning signs...

Thanks

 

[fatstep]

The person I knew her main symptoms were lethargy, trouble breathing even after not much activity at all. I'm no Dr so I'm not about to diagnose u with pph over BL lol. If I remember right there were 3 specialists at the time who could treat it(2004-5) hers was at Duke University...luckily just a couple hours from where we live

 

[fatstep]

No cure btw

 

[fatstep]

No cure btw & fluid builds up in your lungs and you slowly suffsuffocate if I remember correctly. Incredibly painful and horrific way to die

 

[adder]

Hey again,

If you suffer from endogenous depression, then it changes your situation for sure. However, are you absolutely sure that your depression is endogenous? I'm asking this, because I've got a lot of experience with psychiatrists and with all due respect to some great specialists, there are a lot of psychiatrists who have absolutely no idea about what they do. One of my psychiatrists kept me on 6mg of clonazepam for a few years and she had no idea what to do about it, I was 17 when I first went to see her and as I look back, it's unacceptable for a psychiatrist to condemn a young person by continuously prescribing drugs that don't help at all and make matters worse very fast. I understand that you may have lost trust to all psychiatrists in general, but if you suffer from endogenous depression, you will need drugs to overcome it, so you will need a good psychiatrist that you will be able to fully trust.

Depression can't be easily fixed simply by elevating levels of dopamine or serotonin. Actually, I think there's enough evidence now that lowered levels of monoamines aren't directly responsible for depression, these may be secondary effects or they're simply just a part of the bigger picture. It's obvious why empathogens help you with your symptoms and why they feel better for you than plain stimulants like amphetamine. But these are no miracle drugs either, they may temporarily help you for one thing, but they're also making other things worse in the background. Also, tolerance to releasers like 3-MMC raises quickly and that's why you can't properly feel it any more. Your tolerance will also affect the effects of drugs with a similar pharmacology like 5-APB etc. Switching drugs is not a solution here even if you feel a temporary relief. Honestly, people suffering from depression may feel temporary relief from a variety of drugs. I used to suffer from both depression and social anxiety, and in my case opioids and benzodiazepines seemed to be miracle drugs, but eventually they only made everything worse. I'm not here to judge you or judge myself, what's done is done.

Even if you think now that SSRIs are useless for you, that may not be true. If your depression is endogenous, then you need some drug to help you correct the imbalance of neurotransmitters in your body. However, after so many years in depression it may not be enough. You'll most likely need to work with yourself to fully recover, because I can imagine that there are a lot of increasing problems in your life not directly related to your endogenous depression. I'd love to help you, I know your chaos and your hopelessness, but unfortunately I've been recently having problems even with writing a single message at one go. I took benzodiazepines for 9 years before I quit and for the last 10 months I'm in the spiral of good and bad periods of time, when the spiral goes upwards, I'm more than fine, at times I'm even euphoric without a reason and I can do a few things at once, but when it goes downwards, I can't even properly express myself. You need someone to be there for you any time you need them and sometimes I can hardly get up from my bed to go to a lecture. The recovery from this is a very long process and the withdrawal keeps coming back every now and then, usually it does when I think I'm doing all right. A lot of your problems may be caused by your long-time benzodiazepine use, actually I'm sure they are, and that's why it's essential that you start tapering down. However, I don't think you'll be able to quit benzodiazepines as long as you're addicted to stimulants, it's going to make benzodiazepine withdrawal much worse.

 

[Student76]

Well I have normally a very low bloodpressure.100/60.So with 300 mg 3 MMC it is 120/ 80
and with a very small dosage of a betablocker(bisoprolol)1,25mg my heart rate is 60 or 70.
The only problem are kindneys,and Liver or if toxic byproducts exist.


Someone with longterm 3MMC use ?

 

[Student76]

Hello adder thank you for the answer.

Yes I am absolutly sure it is endogen.At about 7 pm it comes in waves,and till midnight its extrem(like Knives in my head)
Without any reason.OK stress can trigger this.Then it comes fast.A sort of reaktiv depressiv.Very vegetativ typ of person.

I took,and take benzos since 5 years,here bromazepam,it is mood enhancing.Not like clonazepam which makes me more depressed.
Well I work know for 15 hours a week as pharmacist.So i can buy all meds,and tried all of them in the years.
But without 3 MMC 50 gramms a year I would lose my job.I helps in 2 ways.No depression,and I am friendly,not psychotic,and talking is easy.
I think the plus from serotonin that ritalin did not have counters psychotic symptoms.I don't know.Any Ideas?

I tried all SSRIs.Citalopram,Paroxetin,st johns.I react the following way to each substanze:
First my mood and motivation goes down(day 1-7) then I get suicidal and psychotic but very extrem.
Read Imminst forum.If someones brain reacts with suicidal thoughts to a drug immediatly stop this!

I will not quit Benzodiazepines.Why? do you really think Seroquel or Remergil or any sort of Neuroleptics are any better.
I think so who take SSRI,Seroquel and neuroleptics are almost dead.These are emotion blunters.No fun,no fear,no depression.No emotions at all.
for a few weeks ok,take same if something bad happens,but not for livelong endogen depression and a disorder where the time span of concentration is limited to 2 hours a day.

You can not cure this.Its a disease.I have reduced brain mass in different areas of the brain.Thanks to Xyladecor/ or hundreds of antibiotiks.

Any Advice?

 

[Shamanism]

What would you like to hear?

-That you are doing fine?
-Other RC's to take?
-Replacement phams?

It looks like you dismiss any advice when it conficts with your current intake regimen, so perhaps know what you would like to achieve before repeating the same?

I hope you find the alternative you are looking for, but this will probably include a period off 3-mmc, if you find it. So there are lots of factors here including your job etc. and I understand you have little trust in conventional medicine now, but you have to start somewhere. Perhaps make a list of your options and some kind of planning?

Also adders advice regarding benzos actually sounds pretty good. Why do you use them? Do you mostly use them for sleep or anxiolytic properties?

 

[The Happy Wanderer]

Have you ever tried lyrica? For me, it stabilizes mood and keeps down anxiety. Also, adverse effects are relatively mild for most and for many it is not addictive. You could also try ketamine, as you have access to all kind of drugs.
Of course, Ketamine has it's danger of addiction, too, but in your case it possibly won't be a worse option than your current regimen.
With a diagnosed endogenous depression you would most likely qualify for a study or maybe a doctor would even be willing to prescribe it off-label.

I just read that endogenous depression is caused by "abnormal behavior of the endogenous opioid system". Sorry if didn't see it, but have you ever tried opioids?

 

[Student76]

Hello.

Yes I tried Lyrica 3 times.Hm ketamin I find to dangerous to try.
Lyrica works well.But.If I take it in the evening(varing doses).I have deep morning depression.
If I take it in the morning than I can not sleep and have evening depression.
It reduces transmitters,Which docotors said I have a sort of brain power desease(reduced attention span)cronic fatigue syndrome.
Benzo diazpines I take since 7 years are bromazepam,which is losing from year to year its power to help me sleep,but relaxes my muscle tonus.

My be I look the therm endogenous opioid system.But opiods made me most time only nauseos,like a drunken on a ship.Thats not funktional.
I think with my betablocker propranolol and with regular checks of liver I go on with 4 x 100 mg 3 MMC.By the way 2 MMC ist only weeker,you mußt take 600 mg a day
an works not so much on dopamine,but the serotonin component is there.A litte less side effects.Only if 2015 3MMC is no more availible.
I have a german vendor,but he is very expensive.If I use 2 MMC i would need 100 gramms a year.Thats almost 2000 euro.And I am not rich:-(
I

 

[Student76]

I do not know why every single antidepressant,Tianeptine,Trizyklics,Mao,Tranylcypromin,Moclobemide,Sulpiride,Atomoxetine,Modafinil,Edronax,Venlafaxin,Paroxetin
endet all with the same Pattern.First week depression gets worse.I crash every evening if taken in the morning or the other way.
After 2-4 weeks there is more and more brain chatter going on.Running thoughts.And after one month I can wait to bekommen nearly paranoic,psychotic.
No clear thoughts,I feel almost like negativ schizophrenic.Perhaps I have a small tendence to this.But without meds this doesnt happen.
Only 3-MMC worked without getting schizo and no crash the next day nor evening.I can not explain this.Ritalin,amphet,Cocain,all cause psychosis,and schizo after a few days.
And I never Take Hardcore Neuroleptics because then for me thats more then death.Beyond death.The living dead.Thats the way I felt on risperdal,quetiapine,Clozapine usw.
Testet all.Crap.Thats for people how are truly schizophrenic and see things.And that without giving before Amphetamine.Because Ritalin and Amph. are known for causing
model schizophrenia if you have the genes.

Thanks

 

[Shamanism]

Not recommending, but if nothing else comes up just googling 3-mmc 100g turns op some good vendors offering 100gr for 1/4 that price. Dont add opiate to the equasion btw.. Benzo withdrawl can add panic/depression at night time. Tough one to taper but in long term only adds to your problems.

Also you inbox is full. If I were to take something like that I would make sure to have some days off in my schedule, read my previous post regarding nootropics.
I read your morning depression as not having had 3-mmc yet, when you get used to a stim, off moments seem extra dull some nootropics are ime a great alternative to stims for add and I use them on days I don't use d-amp. And I supplement with q10 and use a choline source and multi vitamin more frequent also on days I use my meds.

 

[The King of Beans]

No cure btw & fluid builds up in your lungs and you slowly suffsuffocate if I remember correctly. Incredibly painful and horrific way to die

Well guess what? I am going through that SAME thing right now. I am getting shortness of breath and dying slowly. I can feel it. And yes it's "painful" but not "incredibly" that is an exageration. I think burning alive or freezing to death would be far more painful (Even considering our defense, and your body would go into shock) but trust me, IT IS CURABLE. don't believe everything you read. Check out ANTISEPTIC DOROGOV STIMULATOR....cures all disease and was top secret. They used it only for top ranking officals, now it's supposedly only available for animals. I recommend anyone suffering from heart failure to look into this. ANYTHING CAN BE CURED, but you have to belive and have faith. And stay away from their deadly poisonous "treatments"


Why do you think I am still alive? I have been "suffocating" for a LONG TIME and I am getting better when I do the right thing. When I binge on RC's it mimics the heart failure symptom.

Thanks for your response...

PS- Also can i ask your opinion on Methylone? Is it as bad for your heart as 3-mmc? Or is 3-mmc worse? I KNOW MDMA is not that bad for your heart since I absued it for so many years and I am still here. So, hopefully methylone is safe compared to coke and 3-mmc. Please let me know your opinion. Is methylone a strong agonist on that 5-htp receptore (or whatever) that damages your heart?

 

[The King of Beans]

I do not know why every single antidepressant,Tianeptine,Trizyklics,Mao,Tranylcypromin,Moclobemide,Sulpiride,Atomoxetine,Modafinil,Edronax,Venlafaxin,Paroxetin
endet all with the same Pattern.First week depression gets worse.I crash every evening if taken in the morning or the other way.
After 2-4 weeks there is more and more brain chatter going on.Running thoughts.And after one month I can wait to bekommen nearly paranoic,psychotic.
No clear thoughts,I feel almost like negativ schizophrenic.Perhaps I have a small tendence to this.But without meds this doesnt happen.
Only 3-MMC worked without getting schizo and no crash the next day nor evening.I can not explain this.Ritalin,amphet,Cocain,all cause psychosis,and schizo after a few days.
And I never Take Hardcore Neuroleptics because then for me thats more then death.Beyond death.The living dead.Thats the way I felt on risperdal,quetiapine,Clozapine usw.
Testet all.Crap.Thats for people how are truly schizophrenic and see things.And that without giving before Amphetamine.Because Ritalin and Amph. are known for causing
model schizophrenia if you have the genes.

Thanks

I am not one to support daily 3-mmc use...that is what ruined my heart I think. I dont knwo for sure since I wont visit doctors (dont trust those fools) but it's obvious it was the 3-mmc....it happened during a 9 day binge. You've been LUCKY! But your time to die is your time. Nobody can change that. But I agree that THEIR Drugs are FAR WORSE. Legal drugs have been PROVEN to be far more dangerous than illegal drugs. They formulate their drugs to make you sick and die.(or turn into a zombie) that is obvious.

So, keep doing what your'e doing, until your body warns you not to. Then focus on curing the heart problems that the 3-mmc caused. Everything is curable. Trust in "god" and believe and nothing can kill you, until it's your time. That's what i did and I'm still alive to this day.

 

[Drum]

What would you like to hear?

-That you are doing fine?
-Other RC's to take?
-Replacement phams?

It looks like you dismiss any advice when it conficts with your current intake regimen, so perhaps know what you would like to acieve before repeating the same?

I keep repeating this. This thread will go on for a year easy, round and round and round. I have seen this before on other forums.

People give opinion and advice and the OP ignores the advice because it is not what he wants to hear. What is the point of this thread? It seems like an attention outlet for him. I am honestly bored with this, I have read his story now on 5 different forums, each forum he tells a different story of amounts taken etc.

Delusional, rambling.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

 

[fatstep]

You're not suffocating yet...thats at the end of the process and can take years for the disease to progress to that stage and actually it would technically be a syndrome bc it can't be cured besides having heart valve surgery which isn't exactly a cure just a replacement valve(s)...you may feel like it but once it truly starts it is literally one of the most painful deaths possible as its so slow. I've heard 2 of the leading Specialists for this say this and coming from first hand experience it was horrifying to see. I wondered at times what the ethics of just giving her a massive overdose of morphine were as she was ok with it to avoid further suffering & was already in hospice care so she had extreme amounts of morphine.

Imagine being stuck under water, the panic you experience, now draw that out over days instead of minutes and you'll begin to understand. Your entire body starts to be in immense chronic pain as you lose oxygen over time and it can't be replaced, on O2 or not once you're at the point where this all starts happening. Just horrible. I'd go get my heart checked if I was you

 

[《Plasticity》]

^ This, this, this. Pulmonary hypertension is a horrible way to die and what's even more fucked is that alot of the time the disease isn't even caused by valvular regurgitation ie. not resolved by a valve transplant. Once the disease develops, it's almost a guarantee that it will only get worse, even if you cease drug intake. In alot of these fenfluramine cases, it wasn't until months after stopping that symptoms started to develop followed by a steep decline in health. IIRC as much as 50% of these individuals died 3 years after symptoms developed. It begins to put a massive strain on your heart, ultimately progressing to right sided heart failure and pulmonary embolism. It is probably one of the worst things to die from, imagine slowly drowning but since your able to breathe in minor amounts of O² the drowning is just drawn out and delayed until you die...truely terrifying. Far worse than just a case of shortness of breath.

I'm gonna repeat what's already been said again, there is NO cure and the disease progresses even if you've been off the drug for years. Not everything can be cured, not all medications are "poisons", and even if the equipment to cure all diseases existed are you really gonna be able to get ahold of that? Why are you so against medications but you'll ingest a wide variety of unstudied, cardiotoxic stimulants in a heartbeat? Which essentially are poisons lol. I've been trying to help you but the message doesn't seem to be clicking. Go see a doctor before it's too late, if it's not already too late. There are people with early stage valvular heart disease and pulmonary hypertension with no symptoms so the fact that you say you've been experiencing them for some time means that damage has already been done.

Edit:

but that doesn't mean you can't cure it. I don't think like that, so I know I can get better if I do the "right" things.

Please, explain to me what the "right things" are and how denying the reality of a disease affects it's consequences? Do you not thing that a great majority of people fighting life threatening illness hold on to good faith? No amount of acorn extract or pinecones will reverse PAH, and you may choose to believe so and invest all your efforts into trying, but sadly it will likely end up in a hospital bed anyways, but with irreversible damage and a sealed fate .
-----
@Student - You keep saying that your not worried about heart diseasse because you take a beta blocker, that beta blocker doesn't do anything to prevent valvular heart disease and pulmonary arterial hypertension caused by 5-ht2b agonism, nothing at all, and may even be masking symptoms of heart damage. Like Drum said, it's getting a bit old reading around on every subforum to find a duplicate of this post filled to the brim with valuable, potentially life saving advice and you just peruse on by and fish for the advice you want to hear.

These people are trying to help you before you seriously harm yourself, and this is a harm reduction forum so your not gonna get people telling you to continue using or that your use is safe by any means, and we also can't provide you with a miracle cure for your mental health issues. As you've already found out, what works for others may not work for you which is why it's important to discuss and trial drugs that may work for you under a doctors supervision. Serotonin releasers are probably the worst class of drugs that I can think of to be used as a treatment for depression, and if you really do study pharmacology like you say you do you would know that. They're cardiotoxic (afaik all releasers are 5-ht2b agonists), hard on the body, and will make you unbelievably depressed and anxious when you stop.

I'm currently dealing with valvular heart disease caused by RC empathogens and it's not fun, and even quite fucking scary. Here I am losing sleep because tomorrow is the day I follw up with the cardiologist to find out to what extent I screwed up my heart as all I received during the echo was a confirmation of VHD "similar to that seen in fenfluramine and aminorex cases"... at 21 btw with a history not even close to this amount. Stop while your ahead and seek out help from a therapist. Maybe try and get on a benzo or something. I find it extremely odd that prescription stimulants give you psychosis but your able to get away with daily doses of something like 3-mmc but weirder shit happens I guess, all I know is that this isn't gonna pan out well if you keep this up. You might even wanna get your heart checked out to see if there's already damage that has been done. Don't be so naive to think that taking a beta blocker prevents damage caused by 5-ht2b agonism.

Sorry if this post is a bit rash but I don't think you guys understand the seriousness of this type of activity and/or the consequences to your actions, especially if ignored. I wish you both the best of luck, honestly and wholeheartedly

 

[The King of Beans]

You're not suffocating yet...thats at the end of the process and can take years for the disease to progress to that stage and actually it would technically be a syndrome bc it can't be cured besides having heart valve surgery which isn't exactly a cure just a replacement valve(s)...you may feel like it but once it truly starts it is literally one of the most painful deaths possible as its so slow. I've heard 2 of the leading Specialists for this say this and coming from first hand experience it was horrifying to see. I wondered at times what the ethics of just giving her a massive overdose of morphine were as she was ok with it to avoid further suffering & was already in hospice care so she had extreme amounts of morphine.

Imagine being stuck under water, the panic you experience, now draw that out over days instead of minutes and you'll begin to understand. Your entire body starts to be in immense chronic pain as you lose oxygen over time and it can't be replaced, on O2 or not once you're at the point where this all starts happening. Just horrible. I'd go get my heart checked if I was you

Well luckily, you're not me....lol but I am not kidding with you. Did you read my list of drugs I've done? I have done MDMA upwards of 500 to 1000 times if I had to estimate. So I already had problems before I got into the RC scene. You're right, it's a slow death....(but honestly you cannot compare it to drowning under water for weeks....that's insane. Obviously you are getting SOME air in, or you would die quickly, as you would under water. But I am not down playing it at all...it IS a form of suffering for sure.....)but that doesn't mean you can't cure it. I don't think like that, so I know I can get better if I do the "right" things. But do you have any idea if Methylone can cause that heart valve damage?

 

[fatstep]

^ good luck tomorrow/today however you meant it & if you feel up to it I'd like to know what happens at your appointment and which primary drug you believe caused this. Again good luck and thank you for sharing