RCs 2 years 3-MMC daily because of severe depression.Danger?Options?

[Student76]

Hello!


Sorry im not from the U.S. but Sweden.So may be my english is not the best.

I am a chemistry student and 29.I was diagnosed with ADD(not ADHS) because I only can work or concentrate for max.
2 hours a day.

Here in Sweden you have 2 possibilities.Methylphenidat or Amphetaminsulfat(Racemic).

So first the doc tried methylphenidat dosing up to 40 mg retard.
This was ok for 2 weeks,then my thoughts startet running a million times and I became psychotic,and I startet to crash bad.
Next was Amphetaminsulfat up to 60 mg a day.There was almost no crash but 14 days later ich became psychotic again.
He wanted to combine this with a strong neuroleptica (Risperdal) and I said no.So I had to leave him.
Then I started Smoking which helped and clonazepam 2mg a day for better sleep and anxiety.
After 5 years of clonazepam i started to have a sort of severe rebound depression every evening.Antidepressiva of all kinds,and
neuroleptics did not help.I am not bipolar and if I reduce clonazepam my depression lifts,but no sleep,extrem anxiety and ADD.
I dont know why but clonazepam helped my ADD alot the first years.But know ist the cause of my depression.



I then read in a swedish forum about RC research chemicals.
I first tried 4-FA amphetamine,2-FMA,2 FA but always the same pattern 14 days later i became psychotic.


Then I tried a few cathiones.And there I saw a possible solution.
I never tried Mephedrone 4-MMC but here in sweden 3-MMC is legal.So I tried this one.
I bought a micro scale and made 100 mg capsules.This was the beginning.I take about 5 x100 mg every 4 hours
and my ADD is gone without any psychotic symptoms or crash the last 2 years.

I did liver checks and kindney,so far they are ok.I do trink lots of water.But I do not know the long term risks.
Someone said to me, in 2 years I will be dead,an my brain will be extremly damaged because this one is like MDMA ( Serotonin-Releaser)

I do not take 3 MMC for any party only just 100 mg 4-5 times a day to funktion normally. I am not extra happy or so.
But now 2 years later if I want to skip a day or two ,this is not possible because my body is feeling like sickness,vertigo,weakness
and only can lie on the couch if I do not take the drug.

So I don't know what to do.If i go on taking 3-MMC what will or can happen.Is this like a SSRI withdrawal or much worse?
If someone here has any advice i would be very grateful.Or someone has taken research chemical and can tell me
if it's extremly dangerous for me.Especially 3-MMC.I know some are neurotoxic but I don't know which ones.
At the moment I have a job in a laboratory which I will lose immediately without 3-MMC.


I don't know why I had each time a psychotic break with methylphenidate and amphetamine.
SSRI also did not work(the brain fog was much much worse).After 3 to 4 weeks on sertralin,citalopram or paroxetine I also
get extremly suicidal.
Trizyklica like amitritilyne I also had to try 8 weeks long before I got the methylphenidat, with the same reaktion.
And with something like Seroquel or Risperdal i feel like I am not alive anymore(more brain fog then with SSRI)
I crash my car the next day,in work everything doesn't funktion because i only want to sleep 18 hours a day + the extreme weight gain.

So I really dont know.Perhaps my liver an kidneys are nearly dead(i have to go to the toilett about ten times a day)
and often in the Morning before I take this 3 MMC I think how long I still will be alive.But without 3MMC I'm in
a deep depression and severe ADD and can not funktion,this problem I have since childhood.
And zyban was to weak.It helped at 600 mg,but only for 5 month,then stopped working.Well I tried almost everything.

I have lots of allergies,in childhood I took about 100 antibiotics because I always had viral infections every 4 weeks.
That was perhaps the trigger.I dont know.The beginning was in school class Nr.5.
There was a massive change in type face and I could not follow what the teacher told us.

Perhaps someone has any information about how toxic this chemical is to the body and
what a dopamine/serotonine releaser can do to the brain if you take it lets say 5 or 10 years daily?
A drug use on a german forum said to me I should try 5mg MDPV every day instead of 3-MMC? is this an option?


If someone has expierience with 3-MMC or MDPV long term would be great.
I would be greatful for every help.Without 3-MMC i would have killed myself 2 years ago.But side effects are becoming more
and more a problem.Kidney pain,heart,bloodpressure.Opiates did not work like tramadol or valoron.


Thank you very much



Sjögren

 

[Kepz]

Oh my god please stop using 3-mmc. Your consommation is absolutely insane. Please stop doing that.
Cathione like amphetamines are extremely toxic.
Try reducing the dose progressively, what about 2*100mg /day for 2 weeks then one a day for 1 week then STOP THIS SHIT !

Ur brain must be really damaged ... but I really hope for you it's not.
Take care of yourself, drug are not a game, you can live without it .. Eat well, fruits and legumes everydays, lot of bananas and Redbull both contain B6 vitamins wich helps for the serotonine releasers.
You will probably, well for sure, be depressed and in a bad physical/mental health but even if it last for months, you have to continue without any med. But valium (diazepam) would help you a bit on this phase of sevrage.
Take care

 

[sekio]

If you have a psychotic break after using amphetamine continuously, then you are using too much or you are not sleeping/eating properly.

As Kepz says, using 3-mmc on a daily basis is not healthy for you, it is functionally similar to using MDMA, cocaine, or methamphetamine every few hours... of course you will feel lethargic when you stop! 3-MMC releases serotonin, norepinephrine, & dopamine. Long term use is not healthy, it increases blood pressure and depletes monoamines in the brain, and probably causes reduction in serotonin and norepinephrine-using axons in the brain. This will gradually recover over a long period of abstinence though.

You basically need to take somewhere between 3 days and 2 weeks off from work, and rest and recover your body and mind. Stop taking the drug entirely, you will not die, but you will probably sleep for 48-72 hours, and then eat a humongous meal. The nice thing about amphetamines/cathinones is there is no risk of e.g. seizures or delerium with sudden withdrawal, just irritability and decreased energy.

 

[ddhats]

You have to stop or cut down I think you know that. I've had a problem with taking too much 4-mmc for years, but I'm lucky unlike you in that I feel great once it's out of my system. So I can do exercise, eat healthily and get my body back to something approaching normal before indulging again. So all is not lost!
Surely you must be able to seek some treatment and explain to a doctor your problems? They will likely give you more drugs. But at least they have been medically tested. Please do not carry on self medicating on research chems that no one has done any proper research on. As you are clearly aware, it's potentially dreadful for your body unlikely to end well. you have to stop at some point.
I'm not going to go into the various ways out of the depression and anxiety you're suffering, as I'm lucky to not have suffered this myself properly. Also there are lots of health threads on this site about getting your body clean. If you can manage this you'll feel so much better physically that hopefully it'll help with your anxiety/depressive problems.

The good news is it's probably not too late. The body is great at repairing itself and if I'm sure if you could just stay off this stuff for a while your body (and hopefully mind) would thank you for the respite. I know the comedowns from 3/4-mmc are dreadful and make a lot of people feel very depressed and paranoid so once you're over this stage hopefully you'll see some improvement. But luckily they don't last long once you've had some sleep. Also, and I could be wrong about this, but when I manage to stay off any cathinones for any period of time my body seems to revert to normal pretty quickly. I'm more than ten years older than you, but when I'm off the 4-mmc I can play competitive football and go for runs and cycles. So far it doesn't appear to have caused lasting damage (I hope), though I know it can't be good for my heart for example.

All the best for a full recovery, but seriously try and take a break from this shit. I have first hand experience of how bad it makes your body feel after overdoing it on cathinones, including mdpv and 3-mmc as well as 4-mmc and at the levels you're talking about you are certainly overdoing it.
Good luck.

 

[Student76]

I will not stop.You understand nothing.Bupropion for example ist not harder for me on the heart than 3MMC.I study pharmazie in sweden.
There is research of serotonin and dopamin releaseres for Severe depression.
What do you think of 6 APB? look the moleküle is a part of citalpram,so is MDMA a part of Paroxetine.

I do not think if quality is pure,that 3 MMC is more evil than risperdal,dexis,and Paroxetine i took 10 years.Sorry.
Here we already have 2 MMC,for me it works equal.So this will not be classified as narcotic until 2020...The industrie and laws are bad.Only if you cant patent substanzes,you have to ban them as narcotics.Very sad.Ok there are many which misuse them for party and to be high.But if you really want 4 MMC or Methylon.No problem.
There is the dark internet.you can get everything,from france,zyprus,and so on.There are hundreds of suicides on paroxetine and sertraline each year.And a few death from rcs.Well first I would ban SSRIs and Neuroleptics.Those destroy only emotions thats all.No normal feeling any more.
I only look for people with a Brain disease.I do not misuse these rcs for fun.

Sorry

 

[adder]

I will not stop.You understand nothing.Bupropion for example ist not harder for me on the heart than 3MMC.I study pharmazie in sweden.
There is research of serotonin and dopamin releaseres for Severe depression.
What do you think of 6 APB? look the moleküle is a part of citalpram,so is MDMA a part of Paroxetine.

It's actually you who misunderstands basic chemical principles, your thinking is completely wrong from the perspective of a chemist or a pharmacologist. You posted a similar thread in N&PD or it was moved there and someone has already explained to you why your thinking is wrong giving an example.

Both toluene (methylbenzene) and phenol (hydroxybenzene) are derivatives of benzene, but they are not benzene, they're different compounds and they differ in both physical and chemical properties. For example the methyl group in toluene changes electronics of the benzene ring and as a consequence toluene is more reactive than benzene. Phenol (hydroxybenzene) is even more reactive than toluene due to the nature of hydroxy group as a substituent. There are some similarities among compounds from the same class but they're not physically or chemically the same.

Amphetamine and 4-methylamphetamine differ only by one small methyl group, but in terms of their pharmacological action it changes a lot. While amphetamine is mostly a noradrenaline and dopamine releaser, 4-methylamphetamine is a noradrenaline, dopamine, and serotonin releaser. You can't compare two compounds like you compared paroxetine with MDMA or citalopram with 6-APB. Your thinking is fundamentally wrong here, if you were right, then why would we trouble ourselves to synthesize complex compounds if we could just take the most basic parts of their molecules and use them instead?

By extension of the law of definite proportions or the law of constant composition, which is one of the basic chemistry laws, every chemical compound is unique.

The good news is it's probably not too late.

The bad news is it's impossible right now with Anja's present attitude. At the moment she's her worst enemy.

 

[Drum]

You have lost touch with reality, in your own world this seems like a good idea, and you will continue to consume 3-mmc daily.

Dude listen to me, I got caught up in psychosis and had delerious episodes from only a couple of nights a month usage (2-3g) You are taking tonnes of this stuff a month, without a doubt you are nto in touch with reality, you need to STOP. You need to understand that it can take months, if not years to fully recover from these chems. WITH TOTAL ABSTINENCE

My last 'binge' was 9 months ago, let me tell you I was dysfunctional and a wreck for most of those 9 months. I experienced;

-Brain fog
-mental confusion
-short term memory loss
-loss of thought
-headaches (pressure)
- Eye aches (pressure)
- no emotion (happy/sad/anger/humour/excitment)
-no enjoyment of life or hobbies
-no social urge
- slight manic episodes
- no libido (no sexual lust, urge, fantasy)
- no orgasim, or very weak.
- Muscle burn and aches all over
- circulation issues

something was not right with my brain and body, but guess what ? healthy eating, fresh air, exercise and 9 months on I am about 80-90% recovered. I look back and I scare myself, 6 months ago some of my thinking and thoughts were crazy, but at the time I thought they were reasonable and real.

YOU NEED TO STOP AND GET HELP. YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING BUT YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.

 

[endotropic]

I will not stop.You understand nothing.Bupropion for example ist not harder for me on the heart than 3MMC.I study pharmazie in sweden.
There is research of serotonin and dopamin releaseres for Severe depression.

What do they teach you about chronic cardiac 5-HT2B stimulation in your pharmacy courses in Sweden? Because that's what you're doing when you use 3-MMC, or any other serotonin releaser chronically.

Someone already mentioned fenfluramine in your other thread. I'm sure your familiar with what happened with the fenfluramine/phentermine mixtures formerly used for weight loss, how users experienced mitral valve overproliferation leading to a damaged, leaky heart essentially. You can't feel that process happening, but if you keep using serotonin releasers every day like this one day you'll probably need a new heart valve.

 

[Student76]

Hello endotropic.

I know it is a risk to use 3 MMC daily.For me it is at this time the best antidepressant ever.I used Bupropion/Wellbutrin and it also is a cathinone
and I had heart palpitations,but only a small effekt at 600 mg.SSRI,Strattera,Risperdal,Ritalin,Amphetamin,Lisdexamphetamin,Maos,Trizykliks,all had no or effect or I got worse.I use a low dose betablocker.1 mg Bisoprololo and I have no proplems with bloodpressure or heart palpitations.
I think 3 MMC will be BTM in the near future so my use time is limited to my be 5 years.I do lots of jogging,and are a member in a fitness club.
I drink lots of water and try to eat healthy.Before this i was almost dead,suicidal and an zombi thanks to neuroleptic,ritalin,and SSRI combo from different shrinks.

Do you have any advice?Perhaps 5APBD or 6 ABP is better low dose daily.Methylone was to strong,to many side effekts.MDPV like Ritalin.Im am looking for someone here with knowledge.Shrinks only learn books and if you dont react like moste people to meds then they throw you out or get angry.

Thank you endtropic!

Perhaps if you have an advice write me a email or PN.I dont like to discuss my mental problems in a forum where most people use drugs for party.

 

[Student76]

Hello Drum.

Thanks for advice.Read my answer to endotropic.
No I have not lost touch with reality.I have endogene depression since 12,and ADD.My be because of lots of Antibiotics or Some toxic environment in our house as I
was a child(Xyladecor,Lindan,PCP) The docs had no idea.

I got caught up in psychosis and had delerious episodes from Ritalin and SSRI therapie for 2 Years.Then I only wanted to die.
Tell me what you mean with binge?I have no high,only no depression on 4 times 100 mg a day.I have no psychosis,the day after or on 3 MMC.I had bad psychotic episodes with all
kinds of Amphetamins and Ritalin,also Strattera.I think you have a different brain then mine.


I have not:
-Brain fog
-mental confusion
-short term memory loss
-loss of thought
-headaches (pressure)
- Eye aches (pressure)
- no emotion (happy/sad/anger/humour/excitment)
-no enjoyment of life or hobbies
-no social urge
- slight manic episodes
- no libido (no sexual lust, urge, fantasy)
- no orgasim, or very weak.
- Muscle burn and aches all over
- circulation issues

This all I had on the prescribed meds from shrinks.So I do not know what future will bring.Perhaps you are right.
But my opionin is if a brain reacts with psychosis the next day after,like ritalin and amphetamines for me,then its the wrong substance for "YOUR" brain.

I am not DELUSIONAL.I only want to feel normal.No severe depression in the morning(like knives in your head) and a concentration span for 2 hours a day,the rest brainfog.

But thank you for warning.I know it is dangerous.But with the meds before I would have ended my life 3 years ago.
At this time I am alive again.

Thank you

 

[Student76]

Thank you adder!

Perhaps you can help me.It looks to me you have a lot knowledge.I do not know everything.

You wrote.Then why would we trouble ourselves to synthesize complex compounds if we could just take the most basic parts of their molecules and use them instead?
Well the thing is there where lots of triple reuptake inhibitors in tests.The probleme is they can all be misused if you up dosage.Because of this they only sell
substances with no abuse potential. Thats my question.There are many studies on pup med,with serotonin releasers(ok the heart problems)but they are very effectiv and
help where SSRI or Trizyklik and Maos do not.I tried every med.I read the release potential from 4 MMC was 8:10 for Serotonin:Dopamin.
For 3-MMC it is 3:10.I think I need dopamine most,and a little Serotonine.But you cant do that simple combine an SSRI with Ritalin or Amphetamin.
Thats never the same I think.
I learned that all transmitters like Serotonin and Dopamin are coexistent in the synapse.If you up Serotonin,then Dopamin is going down and so on.
There has to be an equilibrium or you only feel like your emotions are killed.We call all antidepressants emotional blunters.No fear,no fun,no depression.You feel nothing.

If there is a real problem,for example someone or your parents died than its ok.But if that is endogen and everything else is ok thats an other problem.
I had endogen depression since childhood and Add.I think because of lots of Antibiotics or some toxic environment in our house as I
was a child(Xyladecor,Lindan,PCP) The docs had no idea.
I got caught up in psychosis and had delerious episodes from Ritalin and SSRI therapie for 2 Years.Then I only wanted to die.
Neuroleptics like Risperdal made all worse.I would not be alive any more.But 3 years are 3 years thanks to 3 MMC.

If you have any ideas?what do you think of 5 APBD or 6/5 APB low dose,lets say 10-30 mg a day?MDPV was like ritalin.2-MMC i tried was similar,but the dopamin compond was much lower so i had to take much more.Or do you think 3 MMC is the less harmfull substance?

I think your knowlegde is very good.So if you want to PN me or Email [email protected] i would be very grateful.I dont want to discuss normally mental problems in a forum in which most use drugs for party.But I try to find answers shrinks cant give me any more.

Thank you

Anja

 

[endotropic]

Do you have any advice?Perhaps 5APBD or 6 ABP is better low dose daily.Methylone was to strong,to many side effekts.MDPV like Ritalin.Im am looking for someone here with knowledge.Shrinks only learn books and if you dont react like moste people to meds then they throw you out or get angry.

Thank you endtropic!

Perhaps if you have an advice write me a email or PN.I dont like to discuss my mental problems in a forum where most people use drugs for party.

I understand not wanting to talk about your mental health on a public forum, but you shouldn't assume everyone here uses drugs just to party. I know for a fact that a lot of people here started using drugs to self-medicate some health issue, just like you.

I'll send you a PM so we can talk some more.

 

[Student76]

Well if you like to discuss here in the forum thats ok.
OK I did not know that here a people with health issues.Normally I thought these are on depression or ADD forums.
I thought bluelight is forum for people taking drugs for party and having fun.

Thank you for sending PM Anja
I am in the 8th semester Pharmazie now.And the problem is to studie you can this by working half a day.
But what then?Doctors said i never can work.So only sit at home and life from health care?is that a life?

Thanks Anja

 

[Jesusgreen]

Hi, giving this a quick read it's clear you're a little mistaken on a few things - don't take that badly, no-one, no matter whether they have 20 PHDs in various pharmacological studies or are just your average person on the street can comprehend every single part of everything. It seems you're learning quickly in your studies and I can see where the idea for using 3-MMC came from, the concept itself makes sense, you are achieving a temporary increase in serotonin and dopamine, similar to say a combination of Wellbutrin and an SSRI. However the issue is that 3-MMC, rather than being a reuptake inhibitor like SSRIs and Wellbutrin, is primarily a monoamine releaser like Methamphetamine, MDMA or 4-MMC, rather than being primarily a reuptake inhibitor.

What does this difference mean? Well it's actually a pretty huge difference. Reuptake inhibitors cause down-regulation of your serotonin and dopamine transporters but over a long period of time and so it's safe to administer say SSRIs or Wellbutrin over a long period, and while it will cause changes to your brain chemistry, these changes are gradual. With releasers the situation is the opposite, changes happen very quickly. Using MDMA, 4-MMC or 3-MMC for just a week causes changes similar to weeks or even months of use of SSRIs or Wellbutrin. I am 100% certain that now even when on 3-MMC you're actually left with lower dopamine and serotonin levels than you had before you started your experiment, 2 years of 3-MMC could be equated to probably half a lifetime spent on SSRIs or Wellbutrin in terms of the down-regulation you'll have experienced.

Also 3-MMC, like 6-APB and similar chemicals is a 5HT2B agonist. 5HT2B agonists are *very* cardiotoxic, so daily use does a huge amount of damage to your heart. I honestly think I'd be more comfortable using Cocaine every day for 2 years than I would be 3-MMC, and that would certainly be a crazy idea, so that should give you an idea of how crazy what you're doing is in terms of the damage done, the damage is a very real concern and I'm glad that you've made it this far with few if any largely noticeable symptoms. But I'd highly advise you stop and revise your experiment now before it's too late.

If you really want to look at self-medication, I can understand that. I too am not really a big believer in Amphetamine or Methylphenidate (Ritalin) being solid candidates for prescription stimulants, and while I think Wellbutrin (Bupropion) is pretty solid I'm also not a fan of SSRIs after seeing the addiction and damage my mother has suffered from them over the years. Still, self medication is no easy feat, remember doctors are not just relying on their own years at University but on countless 100s and 1000s of people who've studied these things before them, so they have a solid knowledge of what they're doing, much more solid than any one given individual, and so you're taking a very big risk taking matters into your own hands.

If you must though, and you're adamant about it, I'd recommend looking at pure reuptake inhibitors that are *not* releasers like 3-MMC is. If you think dopamine is your area of concern, then look at Prolintane. It's an NDRI like Bupropion/Wellbutrin but stronger and more effective, and also proven very safe even for use by the elderly. I've not tried Prolintane itself but I've tried a couple of very very close analogues that had similar pharmacology and they were great "every day background drugs", they did not cause me to be over-stimulated, but they improved my mood and made me function better, without any noticeable side effects like increased heart rate, loss of appetite etc that one would experience with say Amphetamine or Methylphenidate.

Again, I'm one individual, so my response can only cover so much, but I have to echo the other responses in this thread that your experiment is very dangerous and you're doing yourself a lot of damage even if you haven't got to the point of experiencing the side-effects yet, trust me, there is already plenty of damage done, both to the heart and to your serotonergic and dopaminergic systems. The good news is this is all reversible with time off from 3-MMC. Take a break for a while, and then spend some time reconsidering if self-medication is a good idea, and if so what the best option is. 3-MMC is not a good option in the long run, please trust me on this, I'm okay with self-medication when it's done right, while many on this forum would disagree and say it's never okay - I see the value in it, *IF* great care is taken and you know what you're doing - but self-medication with 3-MMC is something that will only do you FAR far far more harm than good. Take a break for a while before you decide what to do.

Please do this. I say this as someone who comes from a similar mindset and has at first hand seen the damage 3-MMC has done to people too. There are many better options than 3-MMC if you must do this, but either way you need some time off for your serotonergic and dopaminergic systems to up-regulate and return to normal function.

Best wishes and if you need someone to talk to about all this or want any more advice feel free to drop me a PM

 

[Student76]

Can you for sure tell me that If I take a betablocker like 2.5mg bisoprolol and my bloodpressure is 120/80 and I have no heart problems I will for sure damage my heart?
I used 20 mg Amphetamine racemic here in sweden and 20 mg methylphenidat for 3 years,then psychosis.If I take today only one ritalin I get psychotic,but not on ritalin,the day after.Yes they gave me ritalin and SSRI or Bupropion an SSRI.Horrible.

The crash every evening was horrible.And if I took them longer than 2 weeks I had racing thoughts,and was totally psychotic.Not with 3MMC 500 mg(5 x100mg) a day.I normally could not tolerate Pharma meds longer than 4 days.Then i am suicidal like hell.I imm inst someone told me if you take SSRI and you get sucidal more and more from day to day then you have to stop.
I think for some people cathinones are milder on the brain.I read the release is 3:10 (Serotonin/dopamine),4-MMC was 8:10.
Bupropione/Wellbutrin lost its effect at 600 mg after half a year.(had also heart problems on it).Strattera made me psychotic,and modafinil depressed in the evening as ritalin.Risperdal,Remergil,Trizklica,all neuroleptics.Zombi drugs.A living dead I call it.
As I studie pharmazie a can get every med (Not cocain;-)) I tried pure,more for the ego I think.Not mine.S
o i think perhaps I will destroy my heart( I smoke also) but I lived a life for a few years.The life without 3 MMC is nothing,2MMC is a new one here in sweden, and almost the same effects a little less motivation.But same effects on heart an kidneys.I am an almost autistic person.No interest in people or anything.With pharma meds the psychosis thing,and they made my depression worse.
I also am dependent on benzodiazpenines (nitrazepam 5mg) since 5 years,thanks to shrinks.

Well I think there could be lots of medications that would be more helpfull.But you can't patent them,and Pharmaindustrie is not interessed in helping people.Only big bussiness(Money).

Paroxetin for example,a part of it is from MDMA.Citalopram.A part of it is 5APB.Well the rest of them ist from Amphetamine.They modified the molekules that you can not abuse them any more.But then you will not have a true antidepressant.Only a thymolepticum.Something that blunts emotions.No joy,no depression,no emotions.Befor studying I thought meds help people.Most do not.We have no medicine that cures.Only symptomatic medicine.Thats poor.

If you have a real life problem(ex. someone died) ok then take them for a few month.But if its a brain disease and endogen,than pharmaindustrie has nothing to offer.
They are banning every substanz ex.4MMC because of abuse.I think the few people who died on it are nothing compared to the thousands of suicides each year on antidepressiva.
Read Sertraline and Paroxetine.But well they are testet on animals and so must be good.I learned most shrinks follow only a schemata learned in unversitity, the DSM.
Each new shrink you go to , another med you get in 5 minutes.Well If you say no thank you,they throw you out

I am looking here for someone who took 3 MMC longterm or 5/6 Apb and has still good health.I do not take this to get high,after a year daily,the 3 MMC works still.From were do you take your informations,expirience?i find if i do not take 3 mmc the symptoms are those of SSRI discontinuation.Brain zaps,weak.
But the way it works is i can more read,talk,work,concentrate.And have a normal mood.Not maniac or psychotic.I do not know why,no psychosis no racing thoughts. Methylone for example was bad for me.Depression afterwards.So MDPV ,also 2 FA, or 4 FA(psychosis on 10 mg).MDMA is to strong and there is no pure source for me.Prolintan was extremly weak.But again was a little depressed in the evening.Nothing I could live a live,almost as coffee.
I think after so many strong meds prolintan is to weak.


You wrote:

Also 3-MMC, like 6-APB and similar chemicals is a 5HT2B( i Know this ) agonist. 5HT2B agonists are *very* cardiotoxic, so daily use does a huge amount of damage to your heart. I honestly think I'd be more comfortable using Cocaine every day for 2 years than I would be 3-MMC, and that would certainly be a crazy idea, so that should give you an idea of how crazy what you're doing is in terms of the damage done, the damage is a very real concern and I'm glad that you've made it this far with few if any largely noticeable symptoms. But I'd highly advise you stop and revise your experiment now before it's too late.

Do you think a betablocker can block this?if i take 2,5 mg bisprololo I have a normal heartbeat.If not massiv palpitation or
one time a pulse of 200 and this for 4 houres.Well then I began using bisprolol,since then it never happend.
Cocain(in pharmacies for doctors on surgeries for the eyes)
I tried 500 mg cocain.Hm I would say its a ego drug.Not like 3MMC.Almost like Ritalin only shorter duration.Bigger ego,concentration.I can not get it any more in pure form.
But I did not want to talk to people on cocaine.On 3 MMC I am talkative what i need if i have to sell medcations in a pharmacie.I think i also need Serotonin,and mostly dopamin.
Ok methylon was great,much better than 3mmc,but extrem sideeffects.I would say 10x more aggressive on the heart,kidneys than 3mmc.So i think of the 5/6 APBs or 5MAPB.
Very low dose.I dont know.What would you say? Or say 3mmc only 100 mg a day
And 10 mg of the apbs as a combo? I dont know.If you have questions?Do you also have a
Sort of mental problem?or why do you want to help me?I think i am not going to get very old.But still time is left.And what if you take neuroleptics,SSRI,Ritalin?
I think you are beyond dead.Like a living dead.Thats big pharmazie.

I know you only want to help me.But may brain was destroyed as a child.I think over 100 antibiotiks or that I lived in house with Xyladecor(LINDAN,PCP).Doctors do not know.
Dont you think when the brain reacts with psychosis to a substance than structural damage is going on?I read studies Ritalin reduces the brain mass in children.
Some said I should be stupid and my IQ nearly 0 after 3 years and 100 gramms 3mmc.But I find I remember things better then the years on SSRI and Neuroleptics.
Well I know its a dangerous way.Perhaps I die a view years later with cardiac valve damage.Without betablocker it would not work,extrem palpitations.I dont know.I hope,thats all i have.

Thank you
Anja from Sweden.
My english is not the bestsorry if many mistakes;-)

 

[Drum]

I'm sorry to say this but this guy is nuts. He takes 3.5g of 3mmc weekly. 14g per month. 182g of the substance per year.

He needs to stop, he is delusional, he thinks that all of this makes sense and is OK? 14g intake per month is going to cause adverse mental problems. Large amounts of drugs alters your perception of 'normal'.

I read your ramblings on over 4 different forums, the same stuff, the amount of stuff you take. I have an idea for you, come off it all. yes it will be tough but millions of people have gone through tough times, it may take 1 year + but I guarantee that you would start to recover and heal, but you cannot see that now because you are caught in this cycle. If your chemistry and pharmacology is so great, then why don't you recognise that daily use of 3mmc will actually be leaving your dopa/sert system in a much worse place?

Why ask for peoples opinions on the danger and other options then ignore them ? it will go round and round in circles, you choose to selective listen to what YOU WANT TO HEAR. Again your mind is not right.

My opinion are above. Come off the 3mmc. its not an option if you want to be here in good health in 5 years time.

 

[The King of Beans]

If you want to protect your liver, take Milk Thistle and other liver protectors daily. Eat raw Radishes. They are a good treatment for Cirrhosis, so you being a healthy liver, this should protect you. I am still alive and I think I've had cirrhosis for 20 years (or something serious) I have liver breath and believe me, you DONT want this. Toxins dont leave your body and you'll have to cut down on the dope. If I did it as much as you did, I'd be dead now I'm sure. So, protect that liver at all costs! It can and wil regenerate but once it gets cirrhotic, it stops regenerating the scarred tissue. Cirrhosiss can be cured, but it takes upto 20 years to cure it. And hydration is the key to curing it. There is one site online you can find this info. I trust it because I drank lots of water over the years.

I'm sorry to say this but this guy is nuts. He takes 3.5g of 3mmc weekly. 14g per month. 182g of the substance per year.

He needs to stop, he is delusional, he thinks that all of this makes sense and is OK? 14g intake per month is going to cause adverse mental problems. Large amounts of drugs alters your perception of 'normal'.

I read your ramblings on over 4 different forums, the same stuff, the amount of stuff you take. I have an idea for you, come off it all. yes it will be tough but millions of people have gone through tough times, it may take 1 year + but I guarantee that you would start to recover and heal, but you cannot see that now because you are caught in this cycle. If your chemistry and pharmacology is so great, then why don't you recognise that daily use of 3mmc will actually be leaving your dopa/sert system in a much worse place?

Why ask for peoples opinions on the danger and other options then ignore them ? it will go round and round in circles, you choose to selective listen to what YOU WANT TO HEAR. Again your mind is not right.

My opinion are above. Come off the 3mmc. its not an option if you want to be here in good health in 5 years time.

Well, he is ADHD so he wants to take something for it. But yeah I agree, he should be taking FAR less and not doing it every single day. Just accept the ADHD on your days off. I did.

 

[The King of Beans]

Hi, giving this a quick read it's clear you're a little mistaken on a few things - don't take that badly, no-one, no matter whether they have 20 PHDs in various pharmacological studies or are just your average person on the street can comprehend every single part of everything. It seems you're learning quickly in your studies and I can see where the idea for using 3-MMC came from, the concept itself makes sense, you are achieving a temporary increase in serotonin and dopamine, similar to say a combination of Wellbutrin and an SSRI. However the issue is that 3-MMC, rather than being a reuptake inhibitor like SSRIs and Wellbutrin, is primarily a monoamine releaser like Methamphetamine, MDMA or 4-MMC, rather than being primarily a reuptake inhibitor.

What does this difference mean? Well it's actually a pretty huge difference. Reuptake inhibitors cause down-regulation of your serotonin and dopamine transporters but over a long period of time and so it's safe to administer say SSRIs or Wellbutrin over a long period, and while it will cause changes to your brain chemistry, these changes are gradual. With releasers the situation is the opposite, changes happen very quickly. Using MDMA, 4-MMC or 3-MMC for just a week causes changes similar to weeks or even months of use of SSRIs or Wellbutrin. I am 100% certain that now even when on 3-MMC you're actually left with lower dopamine and serotonin levels than you had before you started your experiment, 2 years of 3-MMC could be equated to probably half a lifetime spent on SSRIs or Wellbutrin in terms of the down-regulation you'll have experienced.

Also 3-MMC, like 6-APB and similar chemicals is a 5HT2B agonist. 5HT2B agonists are *very* cardiotoxic, so daily use does a huge amount of damage to your heart. I honestly think I'd be more comfortable using Cocaine every day for 2 years than I would be 3-MMC, and that would certainly be a crazy idea, so that should give you an idea of how crazy what you're doing is in terms of the damage done, the damage is a very real concern and I'm glad that you've made it this far with few if any largely noticeable symptoms. But I'd highly advise you stop and revise your experiment now before it's too late.

If you really want to look at self-medication, I can understand that. I too am not really a big believer in Amphetamine or Methylphenidate (Ritalin) being solid candidates for prescription stimulants, and while I think Wellbutrin (Bupropion) is pretty solid I'm also not a fan of SSRIs after seeing the addiction and damage my mother has suffered from them over the years. Still, self medication is no easy feat, remember doctors are not just relying on their own years at University but on countless 100s and 1000s of people who've studied these things before them, so they have a solid knowledge of what they're doing, much more solid than any one given individual, and so you're taking a very big risk taking matters into your own hands.

If you must though, and you're adamant about it, I'd recommend looking at pure reuptake inhibitors that are *not* releasers like 3-MMC is. If you think dopamine is your area of concern, then look at Prolintane. It's an NDRI like Bupropion/Wellbutrin but stronger and more effective, and also proven very safe even for use by the elderly. I've not tried Prolintane itself but I've tried a couple of very very close analogues that had similar pharmacology and they were great "every day background drugs", they did not cause me to be over-stimulated, but they improved my mood and made me function better, without any noticeable side effects like increased heart rate, loss of appetite etc that one would experience with say Amphetamine or Methylphenidate.

Again, I'm one individual, so my response can only cover so much, but I have to echo the other responses in this thread that your experiment is very dangerous and you're doing yourself a lot of damage even if you haven't got to the point of experiencing the side-effects yet, trust me, there is already plenty of damage done, both to the heart and to your serotonergic and dopaminergic systems. The good news is this is all reversible with time off from 3-MMC. Take a break for a while, and then spend some time reconsidering if self-medication is a good idea, and if so what the best option is. 3-MMC is not a good option in the long run, please trust me on this, I'm okay with self-medication when it's done right, while many on this forum would disagree and say it's never okay - I see the value in it, *IF* great care is taken and you know what you're doing - but self-medication with 3-MMC is something that will only do you FAR far far more harm than good. Take a break for a while before you decide what to do.

Please do this. I say this as someone who comes from a similar mindset and has at first hand seen the damage 3-MMC has done to people too. There are many better options than 3-MMC if you must do this, but either way you need some time off for your serotonergic and dopaminergic systems to up-regulate and return to normal function.

Best wishes and if you need someone to talk to about all this or want any more advice feel free to drop me a PM

Hi Jesus,

What do you think is more cardiotoxic....3-mmc, methylone or 5-mapb? And where would MDMA fall if you had to rate these on a scale? (Like which one is the most toxic to the heart and which one is the least) And I dont knwo if you saw my thread, but based on that, do you think I can reverse my issues if I stay off the dope? I get minor breathing problems just from doing a small dose of 3-mmc sometimes now (this never happened before)......thanks...

STUDENT- I think all my heart issues got started on the 3-mmc binge. So I HIGHLY RECOMMEND to avoid that shit on a daily basis. Trust me, through experience, student. You've been lucky so far! Don't push it!

I'm gonna keep it real with you though....3-mmc is NOT going to damage your brain nearly as fast as daily MDMA use would. That's just obvious through experience. I did 3-mmc quite a lot too and I never got depressed from it at all. But the heart is just as important (Actually MORE) than your brain health. You can live depressed and dumb...you can't live without a heart. And your heart contains your soul too..

 

[speedballs_over]

Because of this: "At the moment I have a job in a laboratory which I will lose immediately without 3-MMC."

I'm going to suggest something different than what most have said. And I think you will agree, don't stop immediately. In the interest of harm reduction, HR being about more than more healthful drug intake, it is also about the other areas of your life. You need to maintain the path of education you're on, or maybe make a few adjustments, you know - continue to live your life. Don't disrupt it unnecessarily. We'll get to making changes in a few paragraphs.

This for today and tomorrow. Looking down the road though, I strongly agree that RCs for self-medicating is possibly quite harmful.

I also believe it reckless to suggest from afar any specific damage has been done to your body or mind. Maybe, and if so that's really bad, but you've tried most common and some uncommon prescription drugs and they do not work as well as 3-mmc. It makes sense to me, but it's not a solution, you know that, or you wouldn't be reading this reply.

Ok, so this much we do know, you're best when you take 3-mmc and a beta blocker. Otherwise life is intolerable. Correct?

Now, here's what I suggest. Stop diagnosing and treating yourself. This is a mistake many health care professionals make - trying to both treat and self-examine your emotional issues.

Take all your knowledge and experience and try to contain it for awhile, don't try to apply it to yourself so much. Our if you can't do that, try reading everything you've written here as if it were written by a person you didn't know asking you for advice. My point, stop looking at yourself and trying to both to figure out what the problem is and trying to fix it too by self-prescribing.

Here's the difficult part, you must find a competent physician or perhaps a entire team of them.

Meet with the physician(s) and give them a written, complete, objective review of your situation from birth to today. Be objective, don't guess at what caused this, a good physician is going to want to focus on the more relevant facts. Ask the physician to talk with you, to go over all this info you've compiled. Become active in your professional therapy - that's where to put all this effort - into a journey led not by you, rather by a physician with you sitting beside them. Engage the physician if you can to take your unique case on as a challenge you'll collectively seek to conquer.

I believe first the physician is going to try to get you off the 3-mmc but probably will also want to be begin other medications right away. This is where it would become appropriate for you to give your opinion, suggesting a different drug than what they pick, or suggesting a time off everything to allow yourself to settle at a baseline state of being without any substances. I realize doing that would require a lot of support, as you wouldn't be able to do much of anything. These are suggestions, only you know the fine details, so don't discard all of what I write if a part of it conflicts with your situation.

My point here is, be active in your health care but stop trying to be your own doctor. Sure many, possibly most of us here self-medicate. But many of us also have come to understand that's become a bigger problem than our baseline defects which were thought we'd taken good care of and resolved.

I believe that's where you are today. You understand a lot. You know you're mentally ill, that's good, you're understanding your condition. Not that's where I'd urge you to stop -with the self-diagnoses.

Just once more, maybe twice (better - as many times as it takes) try again to work with a prescribing physician, this time with them being fully informed of your trials with mmc, cocaine, and all the other drugs you've tried, prescribed and "recreational". See if by giving all your history including your success with 3-mmc & a beta blocker. Don't leave out any facts, mention the importance of using that beta-blocker, you may not know if that info is of importance to the physician, so give them everything.

See if in a few months or years you're not much better off. Yeah, you might loose some time, have to stop school for a bit, whatever - it's got to be done. In your own self-interest I feel this to be your best bet for a lasting, healthy lifestyle.

If in a few years nothing is better you can always return to trying endlessly to treat yourself. But for now, give up trying to control everything about your mental and physical health. Give up control but remain fully engaged in your care.

And for the love of god, get with a cognitive behavioural therapist asap to work on anxiety, depression and the fall out from your drug use, among other things - CBTs can be of as much, or more help than medications.

This is my take. I'm not a physician. But I give a shit enough to write a decent reply. I'll get slammed by some (probably those that don't read everything I wrote) for not being more alarmed by you RC use. I am very concerned. But reacting by panicking and stop taking what's worked for you for two years is possibly very risky because of the nature of these types of drugs - they best not be abruptly stopped in situations like yours. But it also must stop asap.

Best wishes.

 

[Student76]

Hello



Thanks.I have days where I take only 200 mg others 500mg depends on how much work or stress i finally have.
Well if after konsuming about 100 gramms over 3 years,if brain damage is really that bad,why can I still write and read books better then without drugs(3MMC)
Yes I made an abi of 1.4 and finally managed all 3 exames for pharmazie,and am know a pharmacist.But only with the help of 3 MMC.
Yes I have seen about 7 shrinks,specialist for ADD and more.They only said the disorder is a low brain performance and gave me ritalin,amphetamin and SSRI.
but they all made me suicidal and psychotic after a few weeks.Then you tell me
Your brain fog and depression didn't start overnight so they won't go away overnight( i had that also as a child,and years of meds made it worse) but if you find any kind of improvement in six months then there's a lot of hope for you, you don't need to rely on cathiniones just to feel normal for the rest of your life, and you're only exacerbating the core problem.My be.But I don t see any way to cure my problem without meds.Sorry this is my realty,Brain disease.My be betablockers will not work for ever against heart problems,but there are no studies.I am from sweden but would be anonymous.

Answer:
Have you considered that constant use of drugs (be it prescription ones or not) might be at the core of your depressive symptoms? No one likes being dependent on a substance in order to be able to function normally. It makes you feel weak and useless, or like a zombie. There's better ways out there to treat depression than with drugs, especially research chemicals, and ones that are highly likely to be dangerous for you in the long run at that. Actively try and do regular exercise, eat healthy.

I eat healthy,fruits,and so on,make sport,fitness,cardio.Use Vitamin D and go to a tanning studio.
That all helps a very small little bit.
Yes first was only the disease that i was mentally most time of the day in a fog.Then came Ritalin and Amphetamines.Afters this depression and psychosis occured.
Well I know your opinion.But I have 99% pure 3MMC and after 3 years of taking it,my brain works not much slower.My IQ is the same,but I am alive.
I use and used benzodiazpines Clonazepam 4 mg a day,this helps me sleep.Know for 12 years.They dull much more my brain IQ than 3MMC and I think they are more evil.

Well one thing I have learned.Buproion, or ritalin with an SSRI like Citalopram worked a few month.Then 600mg Wellbutrin and 40 mg citalopram did nothing and brain fog returned.I tried all,Remergil,Trizyclics,Sulpirid(poop out 2 month later),Lithium,All SSRIs,Strattera,Modafinil,Maos all the pharmaindustrie had to offer. But nothing worked like
3 MMC for me.So yes.If I want to do days without it,its like you miss a pill of an SSRI.Brain zaps and you feel very weak and ugly depression returns.

So if you can not tell me something like 3MMC which works simulatan on Dopamin and Serotonin then I will take it on til I die with an heart attac.
I learned in universitity that all transmitters have a sort of equilibrium and coexistens in the synapse.So if you only throw one like with
SSRIs in the match thats bad.These are no antidepressants but thymolpetics,meaning they dull your emotions,no love,no hate,no depression.But no real live.


If you have any ideas what RC else I can take than tell me.
I tried 2 FMA.2 FA.4 FA.MDPV,Methylone and so an.Only crash or psychosis like ritalin and amphetamines.So any advice?

Anja