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130mg of DOC alongside high doses of other psychedelics

S

sheekle

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
176
On another forum I frequent, a member took about 130mg of DOC, 1mg of AL-LAD, 1mg of 1P-LSD, some high dose of allyescaline, some high dose of 2C-C, and some cocaine and opiates, all in the middle of a benzo binge, and now he has to get the toes on one of his feet amputated from the vasoconstriction.


He woke up the next day after all these drugs feeling well aside from the fact that his feet were freezing, and was advised (by me) to go to the ER. They gave him well over 30 vasodilators over the course of a week in intensive care, and the original diagnosis of having to get his legs amputated went down to just the toes on one foot.

So, the moral of the story is, don't go eating half a sheet of DOC (and a bunch of other drugs), because the vasoconstriction might kill you, or at least make it so you have to get your feet chopped off or something.
 
I'd question the legitimacy of these claims...130mg of DOC, when an average dose is more like 2-4mg depending. Doesn't seem right on its own; let alone in that ridiculous mess of combinations.
 
I'm pretty sure Sheekle already posted about this in the mega thread. I think there were pictures...
 
Yup seems to be a true story....didn't hear about all the other psychs but it seems that over a span if 36 hours e ingested around 100mg of DOC
 
Well, over 36 hours is a little different (though still FUCKING OBSCENE!!!). I was thinking 130mg in one go....I'm still surprised one could survive that cocktail though :\
 
So, the moral of the story is, don't go eating half a sheet of DOC (and a bunch of other drugs), because the vasoconstriction might kill you, or at least make it so you have to get your feet chopped off or something.
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aw fuck you should have told me this earlier, now you've gone and ruined my fucking monday night, grr

but uh, yeah, seriously? this is "advice" on the same calibre of "don't play russian roulette with a clip loading semi auto", "don't put your baby in the washing machine", "don't slam your arm in a car door over and over", etc

(i think we can reasonably agree that benzodiazepines were the aggravating factor here... they do have a tendency to bring out compulsions in people sometimes)
 
why would you even do that

how is he mentally? that's a lot of psychedelics
 
People do crazy shit when they black out on benzos. My buddy gets 120 2mg kpins a month. After he takes the first one he ends up eating the whole bottle in two days along with a couple bottles of Evan Williams. If he had a sheet of doc laying around he'd probably eat it all too.
 
yeah, i just read the original thread that Bumble posted

what happened was realy different from what i understood from this thread, the guy had a lot of tolerance and the dosing was spread over two or three days, also he was doing etizolam all the time and stated he wasn't tripping hard at all, it was all fine and he was skateboarding all along

well, damn vasoconstriction
 
Tbh, the guy's saving grace might have been all the benzos in his blood--though it's a moot point because they also caused him to take the overdose in the first place.

In any case, this was talked about pretty extensively in the Big and Dandy. In fact it inspired a few pages of pretty high quality discussion about the relative safety profile of DOC.
 
Wow I only just found this thread now nearly a year later after the OD. Was curious how far the story spread so I googled it. Thanks [MENTION=153390]sheekle[/MENTION] for all his kind words and support throughout this terrible ordeal. I'd thought about coming over here and making an AMA thread about it but to be blatantly honest I find this site hard to navigate on my phone so I don't come here much at all to post, I come here all the time to read the B&D's though.
 
Zombi3 said:
Wow I only just found this thread now nearly a year later after the OD. Was curious how far the story spread so I googled it. Thanks [MENTION=153390]sheekle[/MENTION] for all his kind words and support throughout this terrible ordeal. I'd thought about coming over here and making an AMA thread about it but to be blatantly honest I find this site hard to navigate on my phone so I don't come here much at all to post, I come here all the time to read the B&D's though.
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Did you ever read the Big and Dandy DOC thread's discussion of your case?

It spawned several pages of discussion over the safety profile of DOC--although most of us agreed that your survival is itself a testament to DOC's safety, and that you were just an idiot (sorry ;p , and of course benzo binges can bring out tremendous idiocy in the best of us)--and even prompted the creation of another thread that I believe is stickied on DOC safety.

All water under the bridge for you now, I imagine, but likely interesting to read so much discussion about yourself.

For what it's worth, your case is rather valuable in that it's probably the best documented case of a severe overdose and it's symptoms and consequences that we have. There are a few known deaths from the drug prior to your case but facts in those cases were limited to coroner's reports of cause of death (respiratory failure in one, and anion gap metabolic acidosis in the other, I believe). So perhaps you can take some comfort in the knowledge that your misfortune has made a significant contribution to the protection of many others' wellbeing.

All the best to you! May I ask to what extent your toe amputations have affected your quality of life? Also if there was any evidence of ventricular remodeling or other cardiovascular consequences after-the-fact?
 
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It's worth mentioning both deaths and other hospitalizations occurred from DOC. Recently another user reported severe vasoconstriction resulting in an extended hospitalization from an estimated dose of 4mg of the substance.


treezy z said:
I might have posted this but don't even try and eyeball DOC. I did and the vaconstriction cut off circulation in my legs or something was 2 weeks in the hospital couldn't walk.
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treezy z said:
I was trying to eyeball 4mg
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This suggests DOX chemicals could demonstrate the same unpredictability as other hyper-selective 5HT2 agonist including the NBOMe chemicals. This hypothesis was previously mentioned in the The safety (or lack therof) of DOX chemicals discussion thread. With the other hyper-selective 5HT2 agonist 25I-NBOMe what happens is some people take the drug and survive unharmed. Other people die from normal doses. The determining variable differentiating these groups is something we haven't really defined well.

This I say with certainty, every life has an intrinsic value and all psychedelic users should stay safe.
 
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TheBlackPirate said:
It's worth mentioning both deaths and other hospitalizations occurred from DOC. Recently another user reported severe vasoconstriction resulting in an extended hospitalization from an estimated dose of 4mg of the substance.




This suggests DOX chemicals could demonstrate the same unpredictability as other hyper-selective 5HT2 agonist including the NBOMe chemicals. This hypothesis was previously mentioned in the The safety (or lack therof) of DOX chemicals discussion thread. With the other hyper-selective 5HT2 agonist 25I-NBOMe what happens is some people take the drug and survive unharmed. Other people die from normal doses. The determining variable differentiating these groups is something we haven't really defined well.

This I say with certainty, every life has an intrinsic value and all psychedelic users should stay safe.
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No, it does not suggest that. Paraphrasing "...don't even try and eyeball DOC. I did..." as "an estimated 4mg" is completely disingenuous, and extrapolating comparisons to the NBOMe class, based on this, is absurd.

Seriously. They are not the same. And you apparently needing to misrepresent what is literally a self admitted eyeballed dose of an extremely potent compound as anything BUT completely unreliable and irrelevant when making objective conclusions about said compound, is telling.
 
TheBlackPirate said:
It's worth mentioning both deaths and other hospitalizations occurred from DOC. Recently another user reported severe vasoconstriction resulting in an extended hospitalization from an estimated dose of 4mg of the substance.




This suggests DOX chemicals could demonstrate the same unpredictability as other hyper-selective 5HT2 agonist including the NBOMe chemicals. This hypothesis was previously mentioned in the The safety (or lack therof) of DOX chemicals discussion thread. With the other hyper-selective 5HT2 agonist 25I-NBOMe what happens is some people take the drug and survive unharmed. Other people die from normal doses. The determining variable differentiating these groups is something we haven't really defined well.

This I say with certainty, every life has an intrinsic value and all psychedelic users should stay safe.
Click to expand...
I was with you until you brought up the dose unpredictability thing again.

It's just not true.

The person in the example you cited above said he did eyeball his dose--and DOC is such a dense powder that it's quite likely that he could have had anywhere between 10 to upwards of 30 mg.

Moreover, DOx compounds have been examined in a clinical setting, so we know a few things about them. For one, they have around 100% bioavailability regardless of the method of administration. Differences only occur in the manner in which the drug onsets. For another, the drug has a very long half life, and moreover has an active metabolite (2-methoxy-5-hydroxy-4(X)-amphetamine) which plays an integral role in its subjective effects (it's less lipophillic, and thus the rate of its conversion from the parent compound controls the rate of systemic release of drug molecules from the tissue depots they rapidly establish upon entry into the body--this is also the mechanism behind the seemingly logarithmic dose response curve to DOx compounds.)
This is what breaks the parallel between DOx and NBOMe compounds: NBOMes are more potent than DOx, but are metabolized into a compound far less active than DOx (the equivalent 2c-X). This means that any quantity of NBOMe that isn't sufficiently rapidly to absorbed into systemic circulation will be rendered mostly inert. Especially when we're talking about snorting the powder (a frequent commonality among those who ran into issues with it)--assuming for the moment that some strategy was taken to ensure that such a small quantity could be accurately measured--much of the powder will be trapped in mucus and eventually swallowed and rendered effectively inert.

And finally, although intrinsic efficacy at serotonin receptors varies between individual members of the DOx class, they are with the lone exception of DOI not considered to be full agonists.
 
InterestingFACT said:
I was with you until you brought up the dose unpredictability thing again.

It's just not true.

The person in the example you cited above said he did eyeball his dose--and DOC is such a dense powder that it's quite likely that he could have had anywhere between 10 to upwards of 30 mg.

Moreover, DOx compounds have been examined in a clinical setting, so we know a few things about them. For one, they have around 100% bioavailability regardless of the method of administration. Differences only occur in the manner in which the drug onsets. For another, the drug has a very long half life, and moreover has an active metabolite (2-methoxy-5-hydroxy-4(X)-amphetamine) which plays an integral role in its subjective effects (it's less lipophillic, and thus the rate of its conversion from the parent compound controls the rate of systemic release of drug molecules from the tissue depots they rapidly establish upon entry into the body--this is also the mechanism behind the seemingly logarithmic dose response curve to DOx compounds.)
This is what breaks the parallel between DOx and NBOMe compounds: NBOMes are more potent than DOx, but are metabolized into a compound far less active than DOx (the equivalent 2c-X). This means that any quantity of NBOMe that isn't sufficiently rapidly to absorbed into systemic circulation will be rendered mostly inert. Especially when we're talking about snorting the powder (a frequent commonality among those who ran into issues with it)--assuming for the moment that some strategy was taken to ensure that such a small quantity could be accurately measured--much of the powder will be trapped in mucus and eventually swallowed and rendered effectively inert.

And finally, although intrinsic efficacy at serotonin receptors varies between individual members of the DOx class, they are with the lone exception of DOI not considered to be full agonists.
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There is no evidence that 2C-X-NBOMe's are metabolized to the respective 2C-X. In fact, the only study on metabolism to date found that 5-O-dealkylation is the major route of metabolism, the same route that you are invoking above for the DOX's. Thus, the parallel is not broken. However, it is not clear if the NBOMe dealkylation products are active. In the paper they suggest that differences in individual metabolism may underlie the selective toxicity of NBOMe's, since CYP-450s and glucuronosyl transferases show a great deal of polymorphism. That could be applicable to DOX compounds as well.

Chem Res Toxicol. 2016 Jan 19;29(1):96-100. doi: 10.1021/acs.chemrestox.5b00450. Epub 2015 Dec 29.
Metabolic Fate of Hallucinogenic NBOMes.
Leth-Petersen S1,2, Gabel-Jensen C1,2, Gillings N1,2, Lehel S1,2, Hansen HD1,2, Knudsen GM1,2, Kristensen JL1,2.

2,5-Dimethoxy-N-benzylphenethylamines (NBOMes) are very potent 5-HT2AR agonists. Illicit use of these psychedelic compounds has emerged in recent years, and several fatalities have been linked to their recreational use. In its [(11)C]-labeled form, one NBOMe (25B-NBOMe) was recently developed as a PET-ligand for clinical investigations of 5HT2AR ([(11)C]Cimbi-36). Herein, we have identified the phase I and phase II metabolites of 25B-NBOMe in pigs as well as in humans. We find that the primary route of metabolism is 5'-demethylation, followed by conjugation to glucuronic acid. Carbon-11 labeling of 25B-NBOMe in three different positions followed by in vivo evaluation in pigs and humans corroborated these findings.
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I documented my experience so well exactly for harm reduction communities like this place and shroomery (my home away from home). I absolutely take comfort in the fact that this story has led to others safety. Though I never intended to hurt myself of course, part of the reason I guinea pigged so many RC's is for harm reduction, not just to get high.

If you care to go back to the most recent posts in my shroomery thread you can see the final look of the amputation. At first I was left with stumps of all the toes on my left foot (right foot had no amputation at all thankfully) but just a few weeks ago i had all the stumps amputated because they posed a great risk to my very active lifestyle. I kicked a wall in my sleep and 3 bones punctured through the skin on my toe stumps. Knowing that this woul definitely happen again in the future from hiking, skateboarding o whatever I elected to chop off the remaining stumps. All the toes are gone right down to the end of the metatarsal at the joint, now instead of the end of the stumps being sharp I have on foot stump but all the bone against the skin are flat and smooth and no longer pose a risk of breaking through in the future while I'm hiking, or kicking walls lol.

What extent has this affected my quality of life? Well the answer to this could change because I have very extensive muscle, tissue, and nerve damage from my knees to toes. I developed compartment syndrome in my calves which is what caused the bulk of that. Right now other than terrible aches all that damage isn't effecting my life, but could complications arise in the future and affect my quality of life? Absolutely that could happen. As far as the actual amputation goes it has not affected nearly anything in my life. Surprisingly I can still walk, run, jump, stand on one foot etc.. I have skateboarded for over 15 years and I believe the insane balance I gained from that is the reason that some missing toes ain't slowing me down haha! The only thing it stops me from doing is standing on my tippy toes. I also have a prosthetic attatchment that I wear to replace my toes and while wearing it I don't even have a visible limp, you'd never know I was missing toes.

Sorry I don't know what ventricular remodelling is??? Is that like my veins remodelling themselves to new paths trough my feet? If so then yes they did that because my feet have fully regained excellen blood flow. It is, o so I'm told, as strongly flowin as it was before the accident! Am I at higher risk of this sort of thing happening again? For a little while yes, but my surgeon assures me with time I will heal up to the point that I would need to overdose again or something else equally stupid for my veins too collapse again. They don't even anticipate me to be at higher risk of blood clot or anything. This is largely due to my young age (25) and glowing health. I healed a lot faster than anyone anticipated. My diet and my active lifestyle, if continued, will keep my risk of complications very low. Mostly I will just need to deal with pain for a long long time. No blood thinners will be needed long term.

Sorry for the poor quality of the grammar and sentence structure and shit lol, I'm tired as shit due to some gnarly insomnia and should have written this when I was more attentive but yea insomnia, I had nothing better to do than waste time until I can maybe finally sleep lol.

I think sometime this week I will fin an appropriate sub forum here to make an AMA for my story. To get it all in one place. Until then feel free to ask any questions. I'm more than happy to answer everything as best I can in the interest of harm reduction and science. Thanks for reading.
 
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