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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

Should I like DOC if 2C-C is one of my favourite phens? Im new to any DOx substance and wondering if stocking up is a good or bad idea... I have years of experience with the classics and the more obscure psychs but never gave this one a try due to the long duration. Is it a good one for indoor solo tripping or is this more of a up and doing stuff with friends kind of trip?
 
You should like DOC if you are in to psychedelics ;) I guess it's similar in that they are both phens, but this is a dead-on hard psychedelic.

Wouldn't do this alone indoors, though hiking should be good. It's more of a duration thing than a stimulation thing, yet there is definitely some stimulation going on.
 
I might have posted this but don't even try and eyeball DOC. I did and the vaconstriction cut off circulation in my legs or something was 2 weeks in the hospital couldn't walk.
 
The Hypnotist said:
I know what you mean...I have too a long list...I had this for a while, you won't regret it.

Just 2 tips. Have benzos and 2 days for resting afterwards.

I know price discussion is not allowed, just want to say that was the cheapest and probably longest hit I ever got. Just ridiculous.
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That it is I'm still sitting on a gram from 2011 (i got for free ;-)l not pink though. I don't think I will ever finish it. I don't know if I will ever use it again honestly. The residual stimulation is way too much for me. And 18 hours visuals is alot to deal with. Not to mention that it makes me very forgetful. I can't talk to people nectar I forget the word on the top of my tounge which is awkward as hell.
Good for festival's but to me it eye candy. No insights or creativity IMO. Doc is like taking 25b nbome and methamphetamine simultaneously
 
headfuck123 said:
Im new to any DOx substance and wondering if stocking up is a good or bad idea...
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You choose... In the jam band scenes people aren't happy taking DOX. The negative response people get misrepresenting DOX results in those people never going back after the experience. People prefer the great effects of genuine LSD. This partially results from the fact DOX has an undesirably long duration and partially results from the fact DOX chemicals cause potentially fatal side effects as well.
 
Damn I'm fine now but it straight up killed someone's legs in that thread, look like a corpse.
 
headfuck123 said:
Should I like DOC if 2C-C is one of my favourite phens? Im new to any DOx substance and wondering if stocking up is a good or bad idea... I have years of experience with the classics and the more obscure psychs but never gave this one a try due to the long duration. Is it a good one for indoor solo tripping or is this more of a up and doing stuff with friends kind of trip?
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DOC is a way more powerful psychedelic than 2C-C, but it has similarities in body feeling (more energy though). DOC is extremely enjoyable for me, and feels good, but it is certainly a bigger commitment and will make you straight up trip for a long time.
 
I think it's a testament to the safety of DOC that the person in that thread escaped with only some amputated toes. 100mg is an obscene amount of material and with its slow clearance and tendency for tissue deposition and homeostatic compartment kinetics with its active metabolite (thus causing a non-linear integral of clearance) it would keep exerting vasoconstrictive effects for longer than a week.

Even though that case scared some people, it was proof in my eyes that DOC is a relatively safe drug. That's a dose that should have killed. It didn't, because DOC is a partial agonist, and can only achieve submaximal contractility at saturation. The restricted blood flow was enough to cause damage over time, but not enough to cause serious acute injury. You'll notice in his report that his trip lasted several days, and he didn't seek medical attention until several days after his trip had (mostly) ended. Now his abuse of benzodiazepines probably spared him some of the worst of the acute effects, but he still went about a week enduring proto-gangrenous symptoms before seeking help... And didn't even lose his legs.

I consider a 2.5mg dose of DOC to be an appropriate, safe but strong, tripping dose. Some of you who go much higher than that simply have harder heads than I. But many of you probably also have stuff from an impure/less-potent batch. 7mg--a dose I've seen several people report taking--is not a safe or sane dose, and the people who have reported "average" effects at 4 or 5 mg are clearly working with an impure product.

If this person took 100mg, that's a 40x overdose. A 40x overdose of 4-aco-DMT or a 2c-X would be 800-1000mg. I would not want to see what happened to someone who experienced that. And those are inherently more metabolically labile and easily excreted than a DOx. And while LSD has withstood the test of time as a safe drug even in huge (i.e.
40x 100-200ug = 4-8mg) overdoses, I would frankly not be willing to put it to the test. And I would trust the recent wave of lysergamide analogues even less: I have a feeling LSZ could be quite lethal in that dosage range.
--
And by the way, it's insane to even consider eyeballing a drug like this. You live and learn, I guess, but I don't know why this was something you had to learn the hard way. It's impossible to accurately eyeball a 2-3mg dose of *any* substance, but DOC also happens to be an incredibly dense powder: I would estimate that ~40mg of DOC would take up the same volume as ~5mg 4-aco-DMT. So luck wasn't on your side, I suppose. But to be honest I have some trouble feeling sympathetic for you, for suffering the consequences of such a reckless action. Be happy that you were only handling DOC and therefore got away with just a trip to the hospital. If you had been attempting to eyeball an NBOMe, or a potent stimulant like desoxypipradrol, or a fent analogue, you'd probably be dead right now. And if you'd been attempting to eyeball a potent benzo like flubromazolam or clonazolam, or a potent dissociative like 3-meo-pcp, you'd have probably spent a week in a fugue state and possibly ended up dead/in jail/in a psychiatric ward.

(Ah.... I remember all the phenazepam disasters...)

----And this is in no way an indictment of people who are upset to get DOC on "acid" blotter. *Of course* they should be upset. For one thing, they were lied to. For another, it's different strokes for different folks. And different tools for different tasks: a long-acting, physically demanding, super-visual psychedelic speed is simply not interchangeable with LSDs slightly-manic but generally contemplative and (relatively to DOx) short-legged character. And then there's the fact that DOx blotters are traditionally dosed far higher than they should be, in order to induce the come up a little more quickly and thereby seem more "acid-like"--which coupled with its metabolic resistance and non-traditional elimination and compartment kinetics means extending the already-long trip far more substantially than an equivalent dose increase of acid. Bottom line is that no one should be taking a DOx on blotter unless they prepared it themselves or bought it from a reputable vendor, and certainly no one should be able to expect to drop on DOC at 7 or 8pm and be in bed by 5am... No they'll be up and awake through most of the next day.
 
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Great points, I made the example in another thread using 2C-E. I agree, 2.5 to 3mg is a safe, strong dose. So 100mg is 33 to 40 times that amount. Now imagine a safe but strong 2C-E dose, 18mg. a 40 times overdose of that would be 720mg, which I would imagine is anything but safe. Imagine mescaline... let's say 400mg for a safe but strong dose (which may even be a bit low). 40 times that amount is 16 grams. I am nearly positive if you took 16 grams of mescaline amputated toes would be the least of your concerns. In fact, you'd probably no longer have any concerns at all, since you'd be dead.

I think what gets people with DOC/DOXs is that the dose is so low, and some people are idiots, and 100mg of a powder isn't a lot. But used responsibly, that is to say, with scales AND liquid measurement to divide error, and using good dosing levels, you don't need to worry any more than you do with any psychedelic. Okay maybe there is a little more risk than 4-sub-tryptamines or LSD, but the safety margin is still more than good enough. Anyone being responsible with DOC is not ever going to ingest anywhere near 100mg.
 
xorkoth said:
great points, i made the example in another thread using 2c-e. I agree, 2.5 to 3mg is a safe, strong dose. So 100mg is 33 to 40 times that amount. Now imagine a safe but strong 2c-e dose, 18mg. A 40 times overdose of that would be 720mg, which i would imagine is anything but safe. Imagine mescaline... Let's say 400mg for a safe but strong dose (which may even be a bit low). 40 times that amount is 16 grams. I am nearly positive if you took 16 grams of mescaline amputated toes would be the least of your concerns. In fact, you'd probably no longer have any concerns at all, since you'd be dead.

I think what gets people with doc/doxs is that the dose is so low, and some people are idiots, and 100mg of a powder isn't a lot. But used responsibly, that is to say, with scales and liquid measurement to divide error, and using good dosing levels, you don't need to worry any more than you do with any psychedelic. Okay maybe there is a little more risk than 4-sub-tryptamines or lsd, but the safety margin is still more than good enough. Anyone being responsible with doc is not ever going to ingest anywhere near 100mg.
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qft!
 
If you're asking me I was trying to eyeball 4mg but eyeballing being what it is it could have been 4-5 times that much
 
Well that's the risk of DOC illustrated right there, people who don't take care to use safe procedures and end up in the hospital due to eyeballing an uneyeball-able chemical.
 
Xorkoth said:
Well that's the risk of DOC illustrated right there, people who don't take care to use safe procedures and end up in the hospital due to eyeballing an uneyeball-able chemical.
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Yeah I'm sure it's safe, would be good if it was better known that it's dangerous. Like I said I come from LSD and mushrooms prior to all this RC shit hitting the scene, neither particularly dangerous physically. At this point I know psychedelics aren't universally benign physically.

On a side note: Maybe make the OP pop out a little more where it says DOC safety thread, like IMPORTANT: READ HERE FIRST. It doesn't jump out. Then maybe someone else who is only doing minor research regarding dosage and such won't be foolish like me.
 
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