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1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one

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^ Well yes because the pyrrolidine was causing very nasty pyrolysis products to be generated for smokers

No question it's compulsive in terms of continuing use once started, but in terms of general-purpose "addiction" you might even say it's non-addictive. Can't ever recall any physical-type cravings
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Things don't need to exhibit physical symptoms of withdrawl to be classed as addictive. Gambling & sex can cause addiction yet have no physical symptoms of withdrawl. Equally stimulants can cause a psychological addiction without any noticable physical signs of dependance; MDPV has a obvious sign of psychological addiction in the compulsion to redose despite knowing that you shouldn't - if that's not addiction then I don't know what is... The fact that there's no long term craving for it just means it's another dimension of psychological addiction
 
fastandbulbous said:
^ Well yes because the pyrrolidine was causing very nasty pyrolysis products to be generated for smokers



Things don't need to exhibit physical symptoms of withdrawl to be classed as addictive. Gambling & sex can cause addiction yet have no physical symptoms of withdrawl. Equally stimulants can cause a psychological addiction without any noticable physical signs of dependance; MDPV has a obvious sign of psychological addiction in the compulsion to redose despite knowing that you shouldn't - if that's not addiction then I don't know what is... The fact that there's no long term craving for it just means it's another dimension of psychological addiction
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Well spoken. :)
 
SWIM agrees that MDPV is special to those who develop an affinity for it. It is also true that long term addiction is absent. Like methylone, it wears off when the substance does. With MDPV, that can sometimes be a long time.
SWIM has learned to pre-weigh doses of 20 mg, that way SWIM cannot overshoot. SWIM practically would take a bump out of the vial once SWIM would get started and could go through a lot in a night. However, preweighing gives SWIM a reality check before things get out of hand. SWIM is pretty much out of this stuff, and also misses it...
 
It takes a while to learn this substance MDPVagrant. I didn't like it until I tried it at least 6 times, and still don't like it at too low a dose. It has some of the euphoria of meth, but is more focused on sex. This is another reason some do not like it - unless the opportunity presents itself, it does not feel sexual. Once the opportunity is there, however, it really kicks in.
MDPV is addictive the way cocaine and meth are - once you hit the desireable level of effect, it demands that you maintain it. Whereas with methylone this is almost impossible to do for long, MDPV can be maintained for really long periods of time as long as enough physical and mental stamina and MDPV are available. I do not feel like this is a physical need, or there would likely be more of a withdrawal afterwards, but the definition of physical versus mental withdrawal is unclear. If physical means there is a biochemical need for a chemical which in its absence causes physiological symptoms, then all drugs would have physical withdrawals by virtue of neurotransmitter changes. For me, physical withdrawal is dope sickness or delerium tremens. YMMV, though, and I can only speak from personal experience.
 
I agree that it's a slippery slope. All addictions are physical since every behavior has a complex cascade of biochemical substances and reactions associated with it. It's like nature versus nurture in anthropology. Are we all genetically programmed to behave as we do, or are we formed by our impressions after starting out empirically at the point of exiting the womb? Some lean in one direction, and some in the other, but the question remains the same. At what point does psychology dominate decisions and behaviors instead of biology? The answer is that they are probably both in some way involved. By this notion, all addiction has a physical and psychological component. By the current wisdom of the day however, a physical addiction holds a physiological consequence. That is why cannabis is not considered physically addictive. It sure as shit has a strong psychological consequence upon stopping chronic use though, which no doubt has a biochemical basis in the sudden decease in cannabinoid receptor saturation.

I agree that physical and psychological are meaningless designations, but they are being used in a popular context rather than for their true meaning. Someone can compulsively use a drug even when they don't like the high because they perhaps are trying to attain what they want, and just keep falling short (MDPV makes me feel that way a lot!). You could call that psychological...

Sorry for getting off topic, but just so you know I do not disagree with you in principle and it does boil down to semantics...
 
?

Not to get off topic, but is there any recreational use for MDPV, besides the sexual MONSTER it turns you into?;) (like thats a bad thing)=D

Thanks.
 
MDPVagrant said:
There may be even more to it -- I was told the impurities were not water soluble, so methods of admin that involve(d) dissolving in h2o (particularly with filtering) may have avoided them altogether.
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I'd really appreciate any advice on how a person with no chemistry skills (or lab equipement) might clean up a batch of the MDPV that is suspected to contain pyrrolidine. Thanks in advance. NB: I know fastaandbulbous mentioned something about this but that was for IM use as I recall.

A friend has quite a bit and would like to experiement with the various routes of administration (besides oral) but is concerned about the hazzards due to this impurity.

I'd also be intereted in comparisons between MDPV and Desoxypipradrol from those experienced with both.

PS: MDPVagrant as someone who has just read this entire thread from start to finish, methinks your friend might be wise to resist tryinging MDPV again!
 
nunyabiznis71 said:
I'd really appreciate any advice on how a person with no chemistry skills (or lab equipement) might clean up a batch of the MDPV that is suspected to contain pyrrolidine. Thanks in advance. NB: I know fastaandbulbous mentioned something about this but that was for IM use as I recall.

A friend has quite a bit and would like to experiement with the various routes of administration (besides oral) but is concerned about the hazzards due to this impurity.

I'd also be intereted in comparisons between MDPV and Desoxypipradrol from those experienced with both.

PS: MDPVagrant as someone who has just read this entire thread from start to finish, methinks your friend might be wise to resist tryinging MDPV again!
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I had a thread about cleaning up MDPV on ADD a while back (I took a hiatus from the electronic world for a bit), so I'm not sure if it's archived or what. If I remember, the gist of the conversation was that if that level of pyrollidine impurity remained in the final product, then it was probably a byproduct of the synthesis and very hard to remove, otherwise the lab probably would have done so.

Basically, there's nothing you're going to do with kitchen chemistry that can clean it up. That's what I was told. Someone may have had a brain storm since then. :) Stick to snorting it. :p
 
The pyrrolidine is a hazard for those who wish to smoke this substance... I remember a thread to getting it out, and the conclusion was as Obyron mentioned - it is unlikely that any more can be removed if the lab couldn't get it all out to begin with. This stuff is not trivial to make, and if someone has the skill and resources to synth it, it is unlikely that they would skip a purification step.
This stuff is a lot like crack when smoked; best just not to smoke it - rectal admin kicks in almost as fast. Oral is pretty fast too and lasts longer - most who smoked the stuff ended up using it up a lot faster (probably because of breakdown of some of the product). I tried smoking it a few times prior to the warning about the pyrrolidine, and it was a nice rush, but not worth it due to the short duration of action. This is a stim which works well when it builds on itself. Unlike psychedelics, in which the attack dose really determines the trip rather than the boosters, with MDPV it all adds up and you can slowly build the high up as you want it then keep dosing to keep it there as long as you want to.

As far as MDPVagrant's theory is concerned, I don't entirely buy it. I think the urge to redose is still mostly psychological from chasing the pleasant effect. There is probably much variation in this respect from one person to another, but to me the dynamic is similar to using cocaine.
 
jah said:
Not to get off topic, but is there any recreational use for MDPV?
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continued self-administration of MDPV until there is no more seems to have proven quite recreational in and of itself for a rather few users...

BOOM! ouch...thank you Sir, may i have another? BOOM! and so forth...
 
enough so that I didn't believe it when told desoxypipradrol was a dopamine reuptake inhibitor
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Why not, there are several research papers detailing the mechanism of action in quite a lot of detail?
 
If the bit about dopamine release in the reward centres = physical addiction then that means gambling is physically addictive (as it causes the same thing to occur), yet how can something that doesn't involve administration of a drug like substance be physically addicting?
 
nanobrain said:
continued self-administration of MDPV until there is no more seems to have proven quite recreational in and of itself for a rather few users...

BOOM! ouch...thank you Sir, may i have another? BOOM! and so forth...
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You always tickle me just the right way, Mr. Brain 8(


The MDPV drains much too quickly, even with occasional use (I suppose thats to be expected, though, when those occasions span multiple days)
 
MDPVagrant said:
Everyone's sorry Nanobrain's rats reacted badly to MDPV, but for some reason he keeps regurgitating it ad nauseum (verging of ad-snoozum... his posts lack content/intelligence and it's time to stop paying attention).
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um, where have i ever intimated that me rats had a 'bad' reaction? perhaps your perspective on my missives is a tad obscured by this apriori assumption, which BTW you alone seem to share, my dear Mr Vagrant.

alone seem to share, i kinda like that, hmm.

what the ratties did report is that one would be foolish in trying to overestimate the sheer power and insidious nature of this substance on the bodymind. there have been only several pharmacologicals, LSD first and foremost, which led to profound, all-encompassing changes in these rats and MDPV is one of them, for worse or better.

thankfully, the Heckylated Dr Benzene picked one with a wide therapeutic index for initial unleashing on the unsuspecting collective morphogenic dopamine reserves.
 
MDPVagrant said:
Great, enjoy the conversation you alone seem to share... I hear it can be a 'benefit' of lots of extra dopamine. As for me, I'm through wasting time.
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promises promises, are you perchance a politician? ;-) and about the selfsharing, i was talking 'bout you, sir.
 
Well thank you the Heckylated Dr Benzene for such foresight and such an interesting compound. What lifetime changes do you mean, nanobrain?
 
Have I slipped out of ADD and into the Lounge?

It's bad enough that this forum has turned into "Discussion of the Abuse of Chemicals with Long Fancy Names" lately, but this is just plain ridiculous.
 
mr Vagrant, this is neither about you nor me, yet i prefer my rodents' private communiques stay that way, thank you.

back on topic, the compound in question was certainly not devoid of recreational properties, in fact, it was more entertaining than any other stimulants the rodents were exposed to. and this is consensual opinion of not just me rats alone - a small, but albeit trend-indicative experimental group, n ~20, discounted for confounds.

as far as the psychological mechanism of action, unlike that of any other stimulant sampled, i would describe it as removing altogether that lag between putting intent into action.

herein lay the Machiavellian charms of MDPV - and the potentially dramatic consequences that come along with understanding what Will to Power implies.
 
it was labeled as a hydrochloride. i am also well intrigued by the stated question about the pyrolysis byproducts of MDPV.
 
New question, and I doubt I'll get any conclusive answers, but what the hey!

Does anyone have any experience with mixing MDPV with shisha in a hookah bowl? I'm sure all the warnings of smoking it apply, and am not ignorant to it.

Would it's solubility properties be of concern? Would the (potential) products of pyrolization be insoluble in water? Since MDPV is, and if these are not, seems like a bad idea to use a water pipe, rather than just smoking it straight.

Has anyone smoked it in a bong?

Also, I'm somewhat concerned that if I start smoking it that it may ruin other methods of ingestion for me (either from such a positive experience or such a negative one, as seemingly witnessed throughout this thread.)

Thanks!
 
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