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UK Ketamine Thread v.2 - shortage or not?

Actually many of my best DMT trips have been during drunken states. Often that is when friends have gotten the urge. It just blows the alcohol to shreds and rockets you to dimensions of ineffable realities. Crazy shit. But better let the ket heads have their thread back. I can waffle on about DMT for days.
 
Still slightly OT, but did you ever try MXE consumer? I've not had Ketamine, but MXE is a very special substance which can provide pure psychedelia as well as alienesque dissociation depending upon dose.
 
Nope i completely missed that particular bandwagon. Was offered it at a couple of doofs but was flying on acid so declined. I just dont know if disso's are my thing but i must say i never heard anything but good things about mxe. The one i wish i had tried was mephedrone. I missed that bandwagon too. Was offered that as well but was suss on it being labeled plant food. Shit happens.
 
I actually find ketamine and DMT to be fairly different qualitatively, once you look past the obvious surface similarities (highly immersive experiences, profound effects on the perception of self). As much as i love ket, I'll happily admit DMT is even more powerful for me; more vibrant, more impossibly intricate, more shocking and revelatory. The thing is, ketamine is a lot more recreationally accessible. If I could toke breakthrough doses of DMT on a whim, without the initial nervousness or the occasional panic response in those moments after dosing, Iike some kinda super strength psychedelic whippet, I'd probably be more that way inclined too.

The thing I loved about MXE so much was that it seemed to marry the dissociation of ketamine with a distinctly psychedelic and empathogenic vibe that wasn't too dissimilar to DMT. It also had more overlap with DMT style visuals. I remember one occasion where I had been up all night doing high dose MXE and probably overdid it a bit, but quite a few hours had passed since last dosing and I was still getting colourful DMT style visuals of a jester every time I closed my eyes. After a while, it finally 'calmed down' a bit, and when I closed my eyes I could simply see the room I was in as if my eyelids were invisible, but there were these weird black statues everywhere. This actually started to get slightly scary as I started to think I'd caused some permanent change in myself I wasnt ready for, but I loved the utter madness and extraordinary-ness of it all.

A final note, DMT + dissociative combo... That really shows how different the two are for me because the experiences don't just stack on top of each other, but rather exaggerate and perpetuate the effects of each other in a really synergistic way. Kinda like the dissociative takes the breaks off the psychedelic.
 
Without being a ketamine expert having had only the one experience the big difference that stands out between ket and DMT is the word recreational. You will never hear the word recreational used by anyone who is experienced with DMT. The experience is far too full on, profound and mind/ego/belief shattering to be classed as recreational. It is the great psychedelic rocketship to realms beyond our imagination.

I imagine ket holes have some of this, the immersion etc but i wonder and OM kind of confirms that it is a completely different experience. The thing i cant get past is the ubiquitous nature of dmt. The molecule is literally everywhere. In plants, in animals and hell we even make it ourselves. WTF is with that. Why is such a powerful and life changing molecule everywhere? Shulgin was puzzled by it and so are I and many others. The only answer i can offer is that it helps create or is a vital part of the fabric of reality. That to me is the primary difference between it and ket, lsd etc. No other such molecule is so widespread in nature that has such powerful effects.

Waffling ( or is it whattling ;) ) on about DMT again * slaps face *
 
I hate to be a party pooper, but I often wonder if it isn't more likely that the presence of DMT in mammals is not simply that it exists in trace amounts as a precursor or byproduct of the biosynthesis of serotonin or another related neurochemical, and that it doesn't actually serve a useful evolutionary function. I am less sure of why it is present throughout the plant world, but given that it is a relatively simple molecule composed of elements that are fundamental to the natural world, I think the actual explanation is probably a lot less romantic than "it is a vital part of the fabric of reality". I think it is remarkable at revealing aspects of consciousness that would be difficult or impossible to experience otherwise, and these experiences do seem to temporarily shift the paradigm of human thought in a way that seems to reveal truths about the self and consciousness that are usually inaccessible..... buuuuut DMT is so powerful and otherworldly compared to other psychedelics that it often seems hard to bring anything tangibly relatable back from the experience, other than "wow, so this is a thing that exists".

In regards to ketamine being a recreational thing, I think there are two things you could mean by that. Of course, there is the use of lower doses in party settings, which is undeniably recreational use and something that DMT doesn't provide at any dose. What I was referring to though was more simply the fact that the k-hole is a lot more appealing that breakthrough DMT simply because by the time I am deep in a k hole, I have already gone through a process of gradual detachment from my normal associative thought process and fear in the normal sense of the word would actually be pretty hard or impossible in that state, at least for any prolonged amount of time. But I'd still say the hole is only "recreational" in a very niche way that would appeal to people that seek these intense altered perception type experiences, much like with DMT. I reckon even the most serious spiritual seeker type users of DMT probably have to admit that deep down, they seek these types of experiences because they are really fucking fun and interesting.

There is definitely a lot of value in manning up and facing your inner self head on with high dose psychedelics that actually increase associative thought rather than the other way round... but imo that doesn't invalidate the value of the dissociative hole, which is a fascinating anomaly in the possibility of human conscious experiences that is quite distinct from DMT hyperspace.
 
ordinary mind said:
I hate to be a party pooper, but I often wonder if it isn't more likely that the presence of DMT in mammals is not simply that it exists in trace amounts as a precursor or byproduct of the biosynthesis of serotonin or another related neurochemical, and that it doesn't actually serve a useful evolutionary function. I am less sure of why it is present throughout the plant world, but given that it is a relatively simple molecule composed of elements that are fundamental to the natural world, I think the actual explanation is probably a lot less romantic than "it is a vital part of the fabric of reality". I think it is remarkable at revealing aspects of consciousness that would be difficult or impossible to experience otherwise, and these experiences do seem to temporarily shift the paradigm of human thought in a way that seems to reveal truths about the self and consciousness that are usually inaccessible..... buuuuut DMT is so powerful and otherworldly compared to other psychedelics that it often seems hard to bring anything tangibly relatable back from the experience, other than "wow, so this is a thing that exists".

In regards to ketamine being a recreational thing, I think there are two things you could mean by that. Of course, there is the use of lower doses in party settings, which is undeniably recreational use and something that DMT doesn't provide at any dose. What I was referring to though was more simply the fact that the k-hole is a lot more appealing that breakthrough DMT simply because by the time I am deep in a k hole, I have already gone through a process of gradual detachment from my normal associative thought process and fear in the normal sense of the word would actually be pretty hard or impossible in that state, at least for any prolonged amount of time. But I'd still say the hole is only "recreational" in a very niche way that would appeal to people that seek these intense altered perception type experiences, much like with DMT. I reckon even the most serious spiritual seeker type users of DMT probably have to admit that deep down, they seek these types of experiences because they are really fucking fun and interesting.

There is definitely a lot of value in manning up and facing your inner self head on with high dose psychedelics that actually increase associative thought rather than the other way round... but imo that doesn't invalidate the value of the dissociative hole, which is a fascinating anomaly in the possibility of human conscious experiences that is quite distinct from DMT hyperspace.
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Extremely eloquently put, Mr.Mind - and I reckon you're bang on the money...
 
I wasn't meaning to denigrate the experience of ketamine or the hole or saying DMT > Ketamine.

I believe all experience is intrinsically of equal value. The value of an experience, any experience is given by the experiencer and they are the sole judge.

My belief about the role DMT plays in our reality is just my own formed from my own experience and of others. The ubiquity of the molecule in nature is unique for any psychoactive substance in my perhaps limited knowledge. Its not just in a few plants but just here in Australia in at least thousands in extractable quantities let alone a mere presence in which case the numbers could be far greater. I know of no other "drug" that this is the case for. It certainly is thought provoking.

Anyway back to the ket thread.

Have i said i found it horrible? ;)
 
Ketamine always gives me a sense of existential terror whenever I take it, like I don't know if i'm alive or dead and have absolutely no concern for my own safety. I get really clear and brutal thoughts in my head about what it feels like to die in certain ways (probably subconscious fear) I really vividly imagine having my head slowly crushed or a nail slowly put through the back of my neck, or being electrocuted. I really get no pleasure out of it whatsoever, and always wish I hadn't after. "Regretamine" as a friend of mine called it. A guy i know had part of his bladder removed too as a result of several years high use, it scare's me more than any other drug i've had!

As for DMT I think a lot of people can end up wasting the stuff, the only time I had a proper hit was when it was put in a vaporiser (i'd tried it a few times before that though only got really mild sensations by comparison and I didn't realise how intense it could get), I also had to inhale and hold it in several times in a row, by the third inhale the room I was in started getting tesselated, as though it were made up of pentagon's and had a greenish tint to everything.. Then by the 5th draw (with no air breaths in between) the PC my friend had playing some space game just errupted with colours flying up the walls and I had 5 minutes of just insane unimaginable action going on in a still room.. It was as though I could see sound, radiation and other otherwise phenomenon's the human eye can't see. After that I remember the first thing I said was "I feel amazing! though i might need an ambulance" Inhaling the stuff was vile.
 
consumer said:
Without being a ketamine expert having had only the one experience the big difference that stands out between ket and DMT is the word recreational. You will never hear the word recreational used by anyone who is experienced with DMT. The experience is far too full on, profound and mind/ego/belief shattering to be classed as recreational. It is the great psychedelic rocketship to realms beyond our imagination.

I imagine ket holes have some of this, the immersion etc but i wonder and OM kind of confirms that it is a completely different experience. The thing i cant get past is the ubiquitous nature of dmt. The molecule is literally everywhere. In plants, in animals and hell we even make it ourselves. WTF is with that. Why is such a powerful and life changing molecule everywhere? Shulgin was puzzled by it and so are I and many others. The only answer i can offer is that it helps create or is a vital part of the fabric of reality. That to me is the primary difference between it and ket, lsd etc. No other such molecule is so widespread in nature that has such powerful effects.

Waffling ( or is it whattling ;) ) on about DMT again * slaps face *
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Well I love the fact Ket has no natural precursor, is totally man-made, a made up drug as Chris Morris would say. And remind me not to do drugs with Predator Vision.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
Well I love the fact Ket has no natural precursor, is totally man-made, a made up drug as Chris Morris would say. And remind me not to do drugs with Predator Vision.
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I dont care whether a drug is natural or synthetic. I just find it really interesting that DMT is so prevalent in nature.
 
The first few times I did K I really didn't like it but I persevered for some reason. I still occasionally take it and don't like the experience. The times it most blows me away is with MDA, had some mind blowing experience with it.

I had a very death themed K experience a few years ago where I felt like I was in the mind state of someone about to die, as in me preparing for death. It really affected me and was a recurring dream for over a year. It was positive in the end though as it has helped me face up to death and I think It has caused me to be living life more to the full now.

DMT feels more magical. I always feel quite elfish when I take tryptamines if that makes any sense, especially Mushrooms and DMT. Like my sense of myself gets altered to a elfish cartoony persona.

I did K and DPT once. I ended up in the garden at night passed out on the wet grass for half an hour.
 
tried some rock salt looking k ket last night and wasnt impressed but didnt have alot of it only maybe 70-100mg of it and i still have a high tolerance to the stuff so no doubt if i had a bit more im sure i woulda got to where i wanted to be :) anyone else seen this rock salt type ket?
 
You mean cube shaped crystals? It was the first stuff I tried can remember it being nice once I had got used to ket.
 
consumer said:
I dont care whether a drug is natural or synthetic. I just find it really interesting that DMT is so prevalent in nature.
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Hey I just like winding up hippies (not you) with their "these mushrooms are so much more natural than your LSD maaaaan"

Fuck all natural about ketamine and its still a winner. A big winner. Ask John Lilly. Oh, you can't.
 
Rocky stuff is everywhere now. Some friends do not rate it as highly but I think this is just due to it not being crushed properly or recooked. I would say for IM this stuff is top as it's pure and beautiful looking, but for party usage it's a lot of hassle compared to the sugary stuff that was around before. It takes ages to crush, still wont be crushed right - unless you recook, and the crystals explode everywhere.

Also if you do not recook the rock stuff you are far more likely to get k cramps if you binge. So get a small amount of cold water, in a frying pan (a few ml), add the k (what doesn't dissolve in a few seconds is cut), heat the pan till it simmers but doesn't burn, take the pan and place it on a bowl/plate of cold water and scrape up the results. It makes k less harsh on the body and cleaner in effects. So I retract my 'frying pan days are over' statement.

It's a lot better than the small grainy shard stuff or the weak s-isomer but just does not give any real OBE/CVE if you've a tolerance. Anyone know what is up with the rice shard stuff? It looks the part but is just not potent, it doesn't look cut but would appear so in effects compared to the rock/sugar stuff.
 
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