Opioids Kratom Mega Thread V.4

[Clutchingatstraws]

Sooo....


Not being the brightest light on the Christmas tree, am I correct in reading the last few posts as :


Kratom and 5-htp is a no-no
Kratom and Kanna is a no-no
Kanna and 5-htp is a yes
Kava and , oh ok I give up !!


I read it as some combinations work, some have little or no effect, and some can go tits up (which means not well).


I am so sorry for not understanding but simply from the list above (Kratom, Kanna, Kava, 5-htp and St John Wart) which combinations would work well for being either anxiolytic (I do understand that word) or giving the 'happy' feeling (euphoria, if you must give it a name).


Also, I just know I am going to start mixing my 2 threads together and wonder if it is possible for this all to be put into one thread, in a logical manner, without losing any posts from anyone?


I say that because my 'advise on Benzo for alcohol withdrawal' thread is becoming more like this thread with each day.

Is it possible for this to become a single thread or a blog perhaps? I don't know how to do that and there are some very well established bluelighters commenting here who could perhaps advise me?

With thanks,

Till later.

R.

 

[Moreaux]

I'm really hoping someone with pharmaceutical knowledge will answer your question Clutchingatstraws as I have questions myself regarding some of these combinations. I have some kanna I have been wanting to try, but am uncertain as to starting dose and whether or not it mixes with 5-htp, though discussing it's against rules to discuss dose some I'm more interested in whether it can be used with a low dose of 5-htp.

I think there is a better chance of that happening if your post remains in the "Other Drugs" forum as opposed to combining it with the post in "The Darkside". Would you mind if we left them seperate for a while to see if somebody answers? We can combine them later though.

In regards to kratom and 5-htp, I have never noticed any bad effects from the combination, however, I never took them at the exact same time. I have used kratom during the day, and then have used 100mg-200mg of 5-htp before bed.

The one combination I am certain you do NOT want to do is St. John's Wort with 5-htp. Personally, I would save the St. John's Wort for last as it's going to have the most interactions with other substances out of all of them as it's an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor).

If kanna is in fact an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor), I would be very careful about taking 5-htp with it, as it may cause too much serotonin to be present.

Kratom and 5-htp (<200mg) yes
Kratom and kanna ?
Kanna and kratom ?
Kratom and kava yes
kava and 5-htp yes

I'm not certain if you would want to mix kanna and kratom as both have stimulating properties, unless you did kanna in the morning and kratom later in the afternoon or evening.

Regarding strains, I don't think there is ultimately much difference between them, but white seems to be a little more stimulating than red. I would take white in the morning and red before bed when I was withdrawal from alcohol. I would also take 5-htp, kava, and melatonin right before bed and would get really solid sleep. If you try that combination, take it 30 minutes before wanting to fall asleep. It's surprisingly strong, and you will find you will stumble and slur your words if you have to still be up.

Regarding kava, make sure you get a quality brand. I don't know if they sell it in your area, but Gaia makes an extract that is very effective, and doesn't have ill effects on the skin. I have used some kava that causes a very itchy rash, that lasted for a few days. I don't know about you, but itching makes me very anxious and so it was counterproductive to taking kava for relaxation lol. Also I am girl, so skin problems on my face and neck do nothing to decrease anxiety.

DISCLAIMER: I have personally used kratom, kava, and 5-htp on the same day, for consecutive days, will no noticeable ill effects. I am giving personal experience, this is NOT based on science, so it is very possible it could be a harmful combination.

 

[I cup]

I've found the key to " toss n wash " is to keep your head back ..... Iced espresso or milk , head all the way back w/ a decent swallow sitting back there - small spoon full right on top of the liquid and swallow then chase ..... If you tilt your head fwd or anything to try and mix it or anything , the powder dust in your throat will gag ya' up good - keep that head back !!!
My decade run w opi's is all but dead in the water thanks to this stuff ...... Tried red , then white - now green Malay. and that's what is what finally jived w/ me - less than 2 weeks , no w/d and feeling better by far far than I have in years - like actually me again !!

 

[Clutchingatstraws]

Moreaux,

I am reading this at the point of going to bed, so not going to spend any time with a big answer other than to say thank you, what I have read sounds like sense and I will sleep on that and return later to comment more.

You really are very helpful,

R.

 

[morphine-dreams]

Kratom+5-htp should be ok. Kratom is primarily affects the mu opioid receptor although it has some stimulant properties as well. 5-htp is only a prescursor to serotonin, not a reuptake inhibitor. Kratom isn't an SRI either, so the chance of serotonin syndrome when the two are combined should be extremely low if not nonexistent. You did mention you're on nortryptiline though, which should not be used concurrently with 5-htp or st Johns wort. I don't know about kanna so hopefully someone else can comment on that. In general, anything that acts as an MAOI should be avoided while on an antidepressant and anything that increases the amount of serotonin in your brain should be very carefully researched for interactions beforehand.

 

[Oakstone]

Looks like kava, in some doses, can possibly work as an MAO-B inhibitor, so a combination of that and kanna might not be a good idea. Kava and kratom is a good combo, though. (Don't have any idea if it's a bad pharmacological combo, but I've never had any bad effects from it.)

 

[Shan0]

Be extremely careful. By using Kratom and being an alcoholic you're basically begging to become addicted to opiates like Kratom, or relapse on alcohol.

Stay safe.

Kratom isn't an Opiate. Your body dosn't convert it to Morphine. That being said your right about the kratom addiction being real. But you won't die from it like alcohol. IMO a much safer alternative if your going to do either of those which you will.

 

[Shan0]

How much did you drink per day?
Because it seems you kind of quit cold turkey?
Kratom will not prevent delirium and seizures.

It can definately reduce the chance though.

 

[morphine-dreams]

Kratom isn't an Opiate. Your body dosn't convert it to Morphine. That being said your right about the kratom addiction being real. But you won't die from it like alcohol. IMO a much safer alternative if your going to do either of those which you will.

An opiate doesn't need to be metabolized into morphine in order to be an opiate. Kratom contains alkaloids that are mu opioid receptor agonists.

 

[Shan0]

An opiate doesn't need to be metabolized into morphine in order to be an opiate. Kratom contains alkaloids that are mu opioid receptor agonists.

Ok but it isn't a true opiate. I wouldn't stigmatize kratom in that category, it's the reason why it's being banned and is banned in certain countries. Maybe if you used "opiate like" it would be more accurate.

 

[4meSM]

Never understood why people toss and wash, i just can't stand all that dry powder.
Disolving it in a small glass of water works much better IME, just stir well and drink it in 1-2 shots, you will barely taste it.

 

[Slow_Mobius]

Never understood why people toss and wash, i just can't stand all that dry powder.
Disolving it in a small glass of water works much better IME, just stir well and drink it in 1-2 shots, you will barely taste it.

Yep. Warm water works like a charm. I've found black tea to hide the taste really well

 

[Mycophile]

Never understood why people toss and wash, i just can't stand all that dry powder.
Disolving it in a small glass of water works much better IME, just stir well and drink it in 1-2 shots, you will barely taste it.

With the amount I take...12-14, sometimes even 18 grams in a dose, I don't think that method would work lol.

Washing the powder down with water has always worked fine for me.

Plus, doesn't the powder float to the top in water??

 

[Mycophile]

these days i dont even bother seeking certain effects from strains, i just mix all strains in one bag and take 5 grams..for me, it either gives me good effect or it doesnt..pretty much all kratom gives me nice pain relief but as far as giving you energy, i find you almost already have to be doing something in order for that to happen..i man, if you dose kratom, sit on your comp just waiting for it to kick in like a stimulant, its not going to happen..at least it never worked like that for me..

We've always differed there cause that DOES work for sure for me.

Of course, it may not always be a stimulant effect, depending on dosage and strain it may sometimes be a more mellow opiate effect, but either way, I don't have to do anything to intensify it.

But I've always gotten higher off it than you have.

 

[Alien47]

Sence your DOC was alcohol and that what your trying to get off of I would recommend kava because it feels more like alcohol so would probably work better but also none addictive so after your off alcohol going on without the lava should be easier because your body isn't dependent on it

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Ok but it isn't a true opiate. I wouldn't stigmatize kratom in that category, it's the reason why it's being banned and is banned in certain countries. Maybe if you used "opiate like" it would be more accurate.

Kratom is an opioid. Drugs that have an affinity for the opioid receptors are called opioid, while drugs that a derived from the Poppy plant are called opiate

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Kanna seems to be a SSRI, so I wouldn't combine it with other drugs (SSRIs in particular) that act on Serotonin receptors.
https://examine.com/supplements/sceletium-tortuosum/

Kanna appears to have inhibitory effects on the serotonin transporter (SERT) with an IC50 of 4.3μg/mL[8] thought to be due to its alkaloid content as one of them, mesembrine, has an affinity (Ki) of 1.4nM towards this transporter.[8]

 

[kleinerkiffer]

Regarding the kava:
From Wikipedia

Kava extract has been shown to potently inhibit a wide range of hepatic enzymes, suggesting a very high potential for interactions with many pharmaceuticals and herbal medications.
Several kavalactones (e.g.Methysticin and Yangonin) have been reported to induce activity of CYP1A1. Hepatoxicity has been reported in a small portion of previously healthy kava users, particularly of extracts as opposed to whole root powders.

Numerous kavalactones have apoptotic effects on various human tissues, which may be involved in some of the purported toxic effects of kava use

So I wouldn't use it too often, because of the possible hepatotoxicity.

 

[alexvolume2]

I'm a recovering alcoholic and take kratom daily now. I am quite addicted to it but I had to make a choice to get off the alcohol. Alcohol has a way too destructive effect on my life when I used it. As some know, I take phenibut as well. I certainly can't recommend phenibut though.

Kratom is less harmful, I really feel for you guys with that crazy blanket ban coming soon.

 

[alexvolume2]

Warm but not hot water works best to dissolve it as you stir, then chug it. It is so much easier than toss and wash, tastes less powdery, no choking. I put 10-15 grams in a half full bottle of warm water, shake it, then drink. It's so easy and portable. No one ever listens to me about this method though...