• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

12 step discussion thread Voice your opinions here!

I also can't believe I'm defending it ;) as I also had a horrible experience, but I cannot recommend NA over AA enough for those with problems more with drugs than alcohol. Some meetings are better than others too, so if you can get yourself to, definitely shop around, eventually you'll find one you vibe with.
 
I am actually working on a new program akin to NA and AA that will be very helpful. AA and NA have been around so long that there has been lots of advancements in the idea of recovery, and whether or not its a moral failing or a health issue.

Some of the ideas are good in NA and AA...especially step 12. Helping other addicts has made it easier for me to stay clean.
 
I am actually working on a new program akin to NA and AA that will be very helpful. AA and NA have been around so long that there has been lots of advancements in the idea of recovery, and whether or not its a moral failing or a health issue.

Some of the ideas are good in NA and AA...especially step 12. Helping other addicts has made it easier for me to stay clean.
That's really cool! I have often thought that someone could easily come up with a better program then some drunks came up with in the 1930s
 
I am actually working on a new program akin to NA and AA that will be very helpful. AA and NA have been around so long that there has been lots of advancements in the idea of recovery, and whether or not its a moral failing or a health issue.

Some of the ideas are good in NA and AA...especially step 12. Helping other addicts has made it easier for me to stay clean.


I agree reed with helping others. It helps me in return. I personally am not into ha but it's helped so many I can't bash it. I can tell all of you guys my problems but not to a room full of strangers. Just my personal preference. And I'm my own higher power :)
 
I highly doubt my blunt honesty would be appreciated at a meeting , a lot of people hate hearing the truth. I like when people are blunt and honest with me so that's how I am to others. No matter how hard it is I respect honesty even if it's something negative about myself. I lost the ability to "talk to people with kids gloves" years ago
 
@chef, that's awesome that you're considering an alternative group-style recovery approach. like CJ, i've thought often that "we" must be able to improve on the current models. let us know if you want any guinea pigs :D
 
I went to rehab in 2011 and followed a 12 step program. I have very mixed views on how effective this method is, especially in comparison to more modern programs such as Smart Recovery. Having said that, I did get into recovery, despite some misgivings about some of the steps, and the heaps of guilt and shame that the program drags you through.

But I think if people truly want to get into recovery then they should try whatever they think will work.

Sometimes you just have to use the bits that work for you and just don't bother with the bits that you don't feel are helping you. That is how I approached the 12 steps.
I do find the meetings are helpful, it is good to be in the company of recovering addicts, we all have some common ground to share and there is much support to be gained from our shared experience of addiction.

The 12 steps did help me in many ways and I am now a recovering addict, but in some ways I also found the program quite unhelpful, possibly even a little harmful.

The first step is to me, quite dis-empowering. Being kind of forced to admit you are totally powerless in the face of your addiction does rob you of the little power that you might still have, such as the power that made you decide to choose recovery over addiction - that is the addict exercising their power. I think it is more useful to try techniques that will build up your willpower and help you overcome cravings and temptations to use, rather than to knock you down into accepting powerlessnes, which is damaging to self-esteem. As addicts, we already have poor self-esteem and I think it is better to restore it to a healthy level than to destroy it further.

In total contrast, modern research on willpower has revealed it to be a bit like a muscle, and it can be strengthened through specialised excercises - this can be of enormous help in overcoming addiction and I prefer this approach. They didn't know this back in 1935 of course, but times have changed and newer approaches exist. Ultimately, I prefer to work on empowerment over accepting powerlessness.

Of course step one is a prerequisite to the subsequent steps in which the addict is then required to believe that there exists a higher power (God basically) that they must turn their lives over to. Personally, I interpreted this Higher Power in the way that I thought would help me the most. For me the Higher Power wasn't God but it was the collective power of a group of recovering addicts. That's what worked for me. I saw many young people walk out of rehab and straight back to their addictions because they did not believe in the whole "God" part of the 12 steps. It was tragic to see these young people, clearly distressed and struggling with this religious aspect, choose to return to the misery of their addictions because of this stumbling block and I regard these youngsters as being failed by the program. It is not 1934 now, it is the 21st Century, you simply cannot force religious views down unwilling people's throats. I still don't feel God had anything to do with my recovery, it was myself and the help and support of other addicts that really helped. I have appealed to God on numerous desperate occasions but never found it much help, though I totally respect the views of others who have indeed found it to be helpful.

Other parts of the steps I found difficult were those that involved wallowing in guilt and shame, such as having to admit all our faults and moral shortcomings. It's a rather negative approach and I would prefer something more positive - as addicts we need help rebuilding ourselves, restoring our self-esteem and improving our self-confidence, not the opposite. I got this more positive help from the recovering addicts I shared my time with at rehab and also from various exercises the therapists organised, which were supplemental to the 12 step program. I was a damaged, self-loathing, suicidal mess when I entered rehab and I dearly needed to find a way to like myself, to believe in myself, to find the good in me and to rebuild myself into a healthier, stronger person. I did do that, I was a changed person when I left rehab, but I didn't really get that from the 12 steps.

Finally I never did get any kind of spiritual awakening, I dearly wish I had, but nobody at rehab had one while I was there. I see people at NA and AA meetings who clearly have had such an awakening, they emanate the most amazing vibe and make great motivational speakers at meetings, so it is not just a myth.

In the end I will reiterate that people should try whatever works, be open minded, and if necessary interpret things in the way that you believe will help you the most. If one program has not helped your recovery then try another but don't give up.
I think nowadays the 12 steps are a little outmoded, but they they might perfectly suit the more religiously-minded addicts out there. There is not a single perfect recovery program that suits all addicts, but there is a greater choice than ever before and I urge all addicts seeking recovery to try whatever they think will work and give it their best shot. Never give up on recovery and I do believe it will happen.
 
The first step is to me, quite dis-empowering. Being kind of forced to admit you are totally powerless in the face of your addiction does rob you of the little power that you might still have, such as the power that made you decide to choose recovery over addiction - that is the addict exercising their power. I think it is more useful to try techniques that will build up your willpower and help you overcome cravings and temptations to use, rather than to knock you down into accepting powerlessnes, which is damaging to self-esteem. As addicts, we already have poor self-esteem and I think it is better to restore it to a healthy level than to destroy it further.

In total contrast, modern research on willpower has revealed it to be a bit like a muscle, and it can be strengthened through specialised excercises - this can be of enormous help in overcoming addiction and I prefer this approach. They didn't know this back in 1935 of course, but times have changed and newer approaches exist. Ultimately, I prefer to work on empowerment over accepting powerlessness.

. . .

Other parts of the steps I found difficult were those that involved wallowing in guilt and shame, such as having to admit all our faults and moral shortcomings. It's a rather negative approach and I would prefer something more positive - as addicts we need help rebuilding ourselves, restoring our self-esteem and improving our self-confidence, not the opposite. I got this more positive help from the recovering addicts I shared my time with at rehab and also from various exercises the therapists organised, which were supplemental to the 12 step program. I was a damaged, self-loathing, suicidal mess when I entered rehab and I dearly needed to find a way to like myself, to believe in myself, to find the good in me and to rebuild myself into a healthier, stronger person. I did do that, I was a changed person when I left rehab, but I didn't really get that from the 12 steps.

Finally I never did get any kind of spiritual awakening, I dearly wish I had, but nobody at rehab had one while I was there. I see people at NA and AA meetings who clearly have had such an awakening, they emanate the most amazing vibe and make great motivational speakers at meetings, so it is not just a myth.

In the end I will reiterate that people should try whatever works, be open minded, and if necessary interpret things in the way that you believe will help you the most. If one program has not helped your recovery then try another but don't give up.
I think nowadays the 12 steps are a little outmoded, but they they might perfectly suit the more religiously-minded addicts out there. There is not a single perfect recovery program that suits all addicts, but there is a greater choice than ever before and I urge all addicts seeking recovery to try whatever they think will work and give it their best shot. Never give up on recovery and I do believe it will happen.

This is so fucking cool. Certainly one of the most sagacious posts I've ever come across on BL that critiques 12 step based modalities to treatment and their underlying philosophy. I really couldn't identify and agree more.

For me, I really needed help believing in myself, that I could change. That I might have made bad choices and done other people and myself harm, but that I myself wasn't inherently or forever broken beyond repair.

What I really benefited from was a more nuanced understanding of what was going on, with the emphasis on the possibility of changing one's behavior for the better with effort and determination. Shame is the most useless of emotions, a surefire way of accomplishing nothing - which, for someone in their addiction, can actually be a death sentence.

So a programme focusing on personal growth above all else, positively and counteractively, is what I really needed. Some 12 step groups are like this, others are not. It's hit or miss, and sadly I seem to have encountered more of the not so empowering groups.
 
I highly doubt my blunt honesty would be appreciated at a meeting , a lot of people hate hearing the truth. I like when people are blunt and honest with me so that's how I am to others. No matter how hard it is I respect honesty even if it's something negative about myself. I lost the ability to "talk to people with kids gloves" years ago

On the contrary, I think your blunt honesty would be not just be welcomed but appreciated at most good meetings.

What people like or hate hearing and what people need to hear for their own good are often quite different things, so someone telling it like it is is not just refreshing but could be most beneficial.

I think you'd be an asset at most meetings, us addicts inevitably have to face some hard truths on the road to recovery, which just can't nor shouldn't be sugar-coated.

If that is your style I would urge you to try it out, most people would respect where you are coming from and it is certainly not a reason to avoid meetings, it's a reason to attend!
 
Yeah, I always wondered what the meetings north of the boarder from me were like. If you ever check out a meeting in Canada, let us know what it's like Jaa.
 
LOL, that sounds a lot like my experiences here in the states. Guess the situation isn't much different where ever you go when it comes to 12 step groups.
 
I was politely asked to not return. In all honesty though it was when I punched the cop out. I was only at the meeting to get a chip lol yes awful I know
 
Lol not banned just not allowed at that one anymore. I got the chip though :)
 
I don't agree with the core principles of AA/NA. I think most addicts have some measure of control over their addiction, for example, and I don't think that the mantra of "we are powerless over our addictions" is particularly helpful. Some people find success with that kind of program but it's not for me...it's pointless to try and embrace a program when you can't even agree with the most fundamental argument of said program
 
I am 100% behind your idea. I do beleive that sometimes being an alcoholic is a bit childish. Once you take responsibilities and grow up it becomes less of a problem.
 
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