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psychedelic enlightenment my experience

i agree with murphy about insight meditation being most excellent. the rest of the discussion not so much
 
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Ismene said:
Such as?
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How many rock stars are actually happy? Fame sounds like a nightmare to me and history seems to back me up on that. How many "behind the music" episodes are about how well adjusted and content the subject is?
 
willow11 said:
Why must it be a psychedelic? I do not see why people wish to denigrate psychedelics by claiming they are the same or basis for many world religions.
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all primordial religions started with psychedelics, are inextricably linked to psychedelics; not what most of us think about what religion is, but what used to be religion before christianity burned the witches and with them the botanical knowledge -i don't think psychedelics can give us more than good insights, but that's what religions are about at the end of the day, at least good religions ought be... they can't do it for you, so at the end of the day, you can't avoid the hard work to realised your vision

"Ritual priesthood and sorcery coexisted for a long time without open conflict in many different spheres: the basileus of the Greek civil religion coexisted with the hierophants of numerous mysteries, Confucian mandarins with Buddhist and Taoist saint, rabbis with prophets.

War begins when a sect -originally connected with archaic communion trances- demands to administer natural religion as well as the prosaic or civil one. That has already happened in Brahmanism, were the old "soma imbibers" later begin to defend an an ecstatic cult. But this can be observed with greater clarity in Christianity, a mystery cult based on banquets of wine and bread, when the Mediterranean basin had already celebrating flour as a symbol of Eleusis and wine as symbol of Bacchus for more than a thousand years.

In its more ancient forms, Eucharistic ritual demanded prior fasting -as other pagan mysteries did- and after several days of bread and water, a single glass of wine has the efficiency of several. Such was the Eucharistic in the Coptic branch, the most vital Christian sect until it was condemned as a monophysite heresy.
Many cups found in Roman catacombs, some inscribed "drink in peace", also suggest that the original rite may have given rise to the "boisterous feasts and drunkenness" condemned by St. Paul (Galatians 5:21), nourishing attitudes oriented -according to the apostle- toward "carnal actions, such as fornication." At the end of the third century Novitian, one of the church fathers, criticized the disorderly love of wine observed among his peers:

"they get drunk upon rising in the morning, as if this was a way to sacrifice to the Maker. And not only do they run to the places of enjoyment, but they carry within themselves a place of permanent enjoyment, since their joy is provided by drinking."

The surcease of rigidity, the "relaxation" introduced by inebriation, had been one of the pagan's gifts from Dionysius, accepted as well by the Old Testament. But now it became necessary -as St. Paul says- to liquidate all stimulus toward a "relaxed behaviour." That gave rise to rigorously abstemious sects, such as the Encratis, Tatians, Maricionites, and Aquarians, to whom drinking was a mortal sin; according to their traditions, when Lucifer fell from the heavens, he united with the Earth and produced the grape. Lucifer and Bacchus become the same person, or -in other versions- are father and son.

Formalization of the Eucharistic rite began by reducing fasts to a mere symbol, only later to reserve wine only for the priest. This allowed retention of the nucleus of all natural religions -which is partaking in food and drink of the god- while discarding at the same time the substances that provoked an intense psychic trance.
Instead of a trance, what is demanded is the wish to believe -in sum, pure faith. Even though the senses themselves may not have noticed a before-and-after difference upon ingestion of the blessed host, faith will consummate the miracle of having the god inside in physical form.


This turn of events required erasing any point of comparison, any communion not based on auto-suggestion. All other mystery rites in the Mediterranean swiftly became "dealings with Satan".
God was no longer to have any vegetable mystery or multiplicity; it was to be one, and transcendent, in the same manner as the authority of the faith itself.

Not only were the magical and religious uses stigmatized; all inebriation implied guilty weakness. Euphoria, whether positive (by providing contentment) or negative (by relieving pain) constituted an end in itself for the pagan. Euphoria is simply therapeutic, healthy. The Christian faith, however, desired a considerable measure of affliction, since pain was welcome to God as long as it "mortified the flesh": that which didn't relieve momentary pathologic states was seen as unworthy flight from the misfortunes affecting human beings.

Condemnation of euthanasia was added. Each person's life was now not his but God's, and he who shortened his life for whatever reason committed a mortal sin. The goal of a timely death, the "mors tempestiva", was as censurable as its less harsh agents, called by the old pharmacists liquidators, or "thanatofores".

In summary, nothing could hurt the pharmacologic tradition more. A few innocent applications, for temporary and localized illnesses, were nothing compared with the temptation of euphoria as an end in itself, added to the threat of orgiastic cults, hedonism, and euthanasia.

These principles were soon to obtain legal force. And edict of Emperor Valentinian decreed the death penalty for celebration of "nocturnal ceremonies" or mere participation in them, a measure that implies declaring illegal any mystery rite of the ecstatic type. In the year 391, Bishop Theophilus incited the burning of the library at Alexandria, causing the disappearance of 120,000 volumes, and after that, the number of archives and texts destroyed is incalculable. Pagan knowledge -especially that related to drugs- was considered contaminated by witchcraft, while St. Augustine declared that scientific inquiry itself constituted an "unhealthy curiosity." Succesive councils decreed that drug sellers be exterminated or else sold as slaves. The Frankish King Childeric declared in an edict that the use of "diabolic plants" was treason to the Christian Faith, and Charlemagne defined opium as "the work of Satan." By the tenth century -when the church and the state formed a unity without fissures- the use of drugs for therapeutic purposes could be a synonym for heresy. The best-prescribed pharmaceuticals at the time were Egyptian mummy and ground horn of unicorn, although the indulgences sold by the clergy were considered much more efficacious, followed closely by holy oils, and holy water and candles. The pharmacist was a magician, and magic was forbidden.

Meanwhile, Europe had gone back a millennium. Plagues in the homes and fields, catastrophes, privileges, barbarism, and continuous confiscations were added to invasions by Vikings, Magyars, and Saracens to produce a rapid feudalization. Many villages were abandoned; others became isolated; forests took over large extensions of land; agriculture and cattle husbandry did not produce a surplus capable of sustaining true commerce; the mining, metallurgical, and food industries collapsed; communication became impossible or too dangerous."

From "A Brief History of Drugs: From the Stone Age to the Stoned Age", by Antonio Escohotado http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Drugs-Stone-Stoned/dp/0892818263"

.....to truly scape from the dark ages, we must re-activate our relationship with psychodelics. To increase empathy we must...
 
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I've taken decent doses of acid, shrooms and 2ci but never had a spiritual experience on them. The only spiritual experiences I've had were on dissociatives like PCP, 3-MeO-PCP and methoxetamine, and even salvia in a different way. The incorrect perception of yourself is literally destroyed as you merge with the universe, reaching IMO satori or enlightenment. This is why dissociatives are also known to kill phantom pain, because it is corrective in the perception of yourself (you are absolutely not who you think you are - you are everything). Having no knowledge or bias of buddhism prior to this, it inevitably changed me and made me an aspiring zen buddhist.

There was one time where I combined the two, I had IM'd an M-Hole dose (40mg for me) of methoxetamine while peaking on 2ci. I thought I had died and felt the infinite love that is God. I would not recommend it though without a sitter, as when I came back out of the M-Hole I was completely delusional and thought I became reincarnated/a God wanted to kill myself to go back. Gnarly shit.
 
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sorry, but the buddha restrained himself like crazy. he used to practice mortification for 5 years: this was his practice: to simply lay there without any sensual desires, or anything. look it up. he discovered the way to enlightenment with the jhanas after year of letting go of any thing a human being normally does. AKA sensual desire.

its very naive to believe he ate a psychadelic drug and found the path that way. I see that kind of argument as a way to legitimize the addiction most of us have with psy and the research of pleasant sensation with psy that we dont know how to trigger any other way.

what we do all the time with our lives? looking for pleasant experience with the use of our body and senses and with the help of the world. this is totally opposite of buddhism where you begin to be self reliable for your happiness and get a independence toward our addiction toward pleasure with the senses.

Did he ever took a psy in his life, maybe, but its impossible to have gain so much insight with a psy experience.


I think therence mckenna gave to a monk dmt, and fater his experience he smiles and said it was the mind. but he didnt found enlgihtenment didnt he.

seriously, some of you may think monk are ridiculous, but they are not. they are practicing something that is very real and that no drug can induce. You cannot make your mind think wholesome thoughts all the time with a drug, its with diligent practice, contemplation and tranquility meditation that you will be able to understand and see what your mind is and then be able to change it. it takes a lot of practice. a practice to change the way your mind thinks will not be overnight, and yes psy helps, but after a psy trip, eventually most of our problems comes back.


max_freakout said:
The main clue is what happens immediately after he eats the magic rice
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murphythecat said:
I think therence mckenna gave to a monk dmt, and fater his experience he smiles and said it was the mind. but he didnt found enlgihtenment didnt he.
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I think you mean the old Ram Dass tale that he gave his "master" 900 mics and the master just sat there as if nothing had happened. Apparantly someone else who was there says the monk palmed the LSD and pretended he'd taken it to impress Ram Dass. Then to impress 3 other students who thought if you ate the ash of the masters fire you had visions, he put the LSD in the ash. 3 more satisifed customers! :)

Certainly anyone who took 900 mics for the first time wouldn't be able to sit there calmly with no effect. Even the physical effect alone would have him up and moving around.
 
I'm not saying that story is true, but someone with years of meditation experience could certainly handle a powerful psychedelic experience "as if nothing happened." Especially stimulation, which would present absolutely no problem for someone used to controlling their own body rather than the other way around. Although I doubt they'd be able to see through the visuals at that dose.
 
the ram dass incident is another story.

therence mckenna did gave a monk dmt.
Ismene said:
I think you mean the old Ram Dass tale that he gave his "master" 900 mics and the master just sat there as if nothing had happened. Apparantly someone else who was there says the monk palmed the LSD and pretended he'd taken it to impress Ram Dass. Then to impress 3 other students who thought if you ate the ash of the masters fire you had visions, he put the LSD in the ash. 3 more satisifed customers! :)

Certainly anyone who took 900 mics for the first time wouldn't be able to sit there calmly with no effect. Even the physical effect alone would have him up and moving around.
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I was listening to this tonight, and couldn't help to think about this thread.

Ayya khema was a theravada monk. give her 30 minute of your time and she may explain all about purification in meditation, insight, the meaning of mindfulness, the division between mind and body, the uncontrolled mind of ours and the mind that always try to entertain itself vs the purity of a mind that isnt wanting/hating/desiring/ thinking every minute of the day and the practice one needs to do each and every moment to get there.

http://www.dharmaseed.org/talks/audio_player/334/7621.html

Indeed, psy shows you that our thoughts and actions are insane and we must discard them because we have inside something much more blissful but for me, after every psy experience, my thoughts patterns comes back and my mind goes back to thinking all the time (or almost) and do the same action/thinking that my psy trip specifically told me to avoid.
 
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murphythecat said:
the ram dass incident is another story.

therence mckenna did gave a monk dmt.
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I don't think he did. Terence was always very dismissive of buddhism, he once said "It's all very well to sweep the ashram for 60 years telling yourself you'll reach enlightenment, it's something else entirely to get there in 20 minutes".
 
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