The Big & Dandy Methoxphenidine / MXP / 2-MeO-Diphenidine Thread
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flyinggeorge
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Thank you for your concern, I am still not back to baseline but hopefully tomorrow I will be able to write up a comprehensive trip report. I can confirm that plugging MXP HCl is effective. I can also confirm that there is a definite hangover with this substance. My stomach hurts and my rectum is not too pleased either.
First Page Changes?
So this scenario repeats itself again I see. The hangover and opioid-like feeling and 'sickness' were present as well with my trials and I would think that these problems are also able to be discerned from past posts. I think tolerance and sensitivity to other substances likely plays a large role on how this acts to each individual and that is probably why I didn't dissociate as much as I was expecting to but more nodding out. I have had much experience with methoxetamine and that is probably why this doesn't react with me the same way it does others. HOWEVER I will still like to point out the commonalities between many experiences which I keep trying to get bumped to the first page.
1) Issues with redosing
2) Length of duration
3) Mental Confusion, Memory Problems, and Hangover
These are my biggest problems that I see with this however some throw amnesia in there which I have not experienced yet but do not want to as I know that requires a higher dose and thus longer duration and recovery time.
We are at page 17 can the first page be updated yet with the risks and helpful advice that has been posted thus far? I really think it is in the best interest of harm reduction and I don't know how many more stories we need of 'I took too much, felt off, missed an event' (or got hurt) before we decide there is a right time to update this. Not everyone is going to read the whole thread.
I have PM'd 2 mods about this and I am kinda surprised there isn't a better first page considering we just had a report where no scale was used for a compound that has apparently caused death and overdose.
Edit: H\
+?? It must have been +4-5 hours by this time. The experience is dying down, during the peak, I experienced many moments of visual darkness, similar to a "hole" on other dissociatives. Although at this point I am still highly confused and dissociated. Somehow I take another plugged dose at some point. I don't remember when, but I do remember doing so. My roommate asked if I was sure to which I for some reason agreed that I was. This was most likely a poor choice. I don't remember too much more of the experience. My roommate went to bed (It was like 4AM so that makes sense.) and I could not figure out if I had actually talked to him at all or if I was just imagining it. I spend the rest of the night highly confused and mostly laying down in my bed trying to sleep which does not come for a few more hours. At some point during the comedown I began to vomit. I don't know if the booster had something to do with this, but it was not much fun.
+?
I awoke the following morning just before noon and the room was still spinning. I threw up a few more times and eating seemed impossible all day. I don't suspect most people will have such a poor time with the day after as I have, if this chemical has any opioid effect, I think that is most likely where these negative side effects stem from. Every time I have taken an opioid/opiate the following day I spend sick to my stomach. The day before the experience I agreed to go to work the next day. I showed up and thought I could handle it, but began sweating profusely and threw up at work and was sent home. I laid down and slept for several hours and decided to write this up. All in all, I will probably try this again without a booster dose. And with a day to recover.
Be safe and have fun.
So this scenario repeats itself again I see. The hangover and opioid-like feeling and 'sickness' were present as well with my trials and I would think that these problems are also able to be discerned from past posts. I think tolerance and sensitivity to other substances likely plays a large role on how this acts to each individual and that is probably why I didn't dissociate as much as I was expecting to but more nodding out. I have had much experience with methoxetamine and that is probably why this doesn't react with me the same way it does others. HOWEVER I will still like to point out the commonalities between many experiences which I keep trying to get bumped to the first page.
1) Issues with redosing
2) Length of duration
3) Mental Confusion, Memory Problems, and Hangover
These are my biggest problems that I see with this however some throw amnesia in there which I have not experienced yet but do not want to as I know that requires a higher dose and thus longer duration and recovery time.
We are at page 17 can the first page be updated yet with the risks and helpful advice that has been posted thus far? I really think it is in the best interest of harm reduction and I don't know how many more stories we need of 'I took too much, felt off, missed an event' (or got hurt) before we decide there is a right time to update this. Not everyone is going to read the whole thread.
I have PM'd 2 mods about this and I am kinda surprised there isn't a better first page considering we just had a report where no scale was used for a compound that has apparently caused death and overdose.
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Mods are volunteer man, that's why, we've all got jobs and other things to do. But I agree with you. We're working on getting something together now. If you have a suggestion for what to add to the first page feel free to make it, we could use that or use it as a base.
To quote myself from earlier, I feel these type of statements are very helpful to put on the front page.
For those taking the plunge the first time:
"There are pretty much no alerts until about 3 hours in and then it is so subtle that you want to redose because you think 'oh, this must be about it, maybe more will help'... DON'T FUCKING REDOSE BECAUSE YOU DON'T FEEL SOMETHING UNTIL AT LEAST 3 HOURS IN IF NOT SOMETHING IN THE REALM OF 4-6 TO BE SAFE
Example of a suggested starting dose, compared to a higher dose that many mention in the thread. I would say this thing can be felt reasonably in the 25-50 mg range orally and maybe less. I would not advise first timers to take anything above 50mg for their first time until they get a feel for it and to work up slowly.
Gradually increasing doses by 10mg, or maybe 15/20mg higher than previous trials allows one to test the waters without going too deep.
THIS THING HAS A VERY UNIQUE DOSE/RESPONSE CURVE.
38 mg produced an understated example of this substance that manifested more fully at about 4 hours later to what I would say is the start of the peak though it is very hard to label a peak as the changes are so subtle. 38 mg orally did seem to take me out there a bit but there is not much in its profile I would say is similar to the same amount dosed of methoxetamine effects-wise.
This thing is moreso related to longer disso's like 3-meo-pcp but not as dopaminergic at low levels and not as stimulatory either.
I am going to try to try to peg a description for this thing if possible because I believe it would best be referred to as some other type of happening (other than a 'hole') as the experience is more of a cross between nodding, dreaming, and 'holing' - in that order.
To me this feels very very similar to an opiate but with an extended head-space. It is so hard to pin down a description for this feeling but the best I can do is say it is like a hydrocodone feel that decided to be stretched very far and zone me out quite a bit. There may be be a PINCH of overlap with methoxetamine type feel with this but it is much more similar to opiates at the 100 mg level which IMO has been the most pleasant trial thus far.
As with other previous trials, 2 hours seems to be the standard window for when things begin to start happening to the consciousness. By hours 4-6 I would say things start ramping up and going into the peak but I have not conducted enough testing to determine the role of food and dosage into this. Make no mistakes about it folks, this thing can be a burden to get on the right level. I am inclined to believe that a 'hole' experience is very much possible but I disagree with the terminology.
That being said, if others do not object the term, I would like to refer to the experience one becomes accustomed to as PHADED
I have also found that due to length of this compound I would only advise weekend usage which would be dosed early Sunday morning at the latest.
The reason I say this is because I found 100mg to be the 'sweet spot' for me[/I] and that a redose 18 hours or so later with 50 mg was enough to get back to the sweet spot. I will try to get this timing verified again but I did it 2 days in a row and I know that each of the 50 mg redoses were in a window of 12-24 hours of the previous dose although I want to say either 12 or 18 hours I am not confidently sure as the second redose kept going a bit too long and continued well over into monday after a dosing around noon.
The last statement may look like it is of little value but believe me if you do this multiple days in a row and dose closer than 12-18 hours, you are looking forward to a long comedown.
Hangover and opioid-like feeling and 'sickness' were present (as others also report) with my trials and I would think that these problems are also able to be discerned from past posts. I think tolerance and sensitivity to other substances likely plays a large role on how this acts to each individual and that is probably why I didn't dissociate as much as I was expecting to but more nodding out. I have had much experience with methoxetamine and that is probably why this doesn't react with me the same way it does others.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HOWEVER I will still like to point out the commonalities between many experiences:
1) Issues with redosing
2) Length of duration
3) Mental Confusion, Memory Problems, and Hangover
These are my biggest problems that I see with this however some throw amnesia in there which I have not experienced yet but do not want to as I know that requires a higher dose and thus longer duration and recovery time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^The above is what I think should be added to the front for now.
For those taking the plunge the first time:
"There are pretty much no alerts until about 3 hours in and then it is so subtle that you want to redose because you think 'oh, this must be about it, maybe more will help'... DON'T FUCKING REDOSE BECAUSE YOU DON'T FEEL SOMETHING UNTIL AT LEAST 3 HOURS IN IF NOT SOMETHING IN THE REALM OF 4-6 TO BE SAFE
Example of a suggested starting dose, compared to a higher dose that many mention in the thread. I would say this thing can be felt reasonably in the 25-50 mg range orally and maybe less. I would not advise first timers to take anything above 50mg for their first time until they get a feel for it and to work up slowly.
Gradually increasing doses by 10mg, or maybe 15/20mg higher than previous trials allows one to test the waters without going too deep.
THIS THING HAS A VERY UNIQUE DOSE/RESPONSE CURVE.
38 mg produced an understated example of this substance that manifested more fully at about 4 hours later to what I would say is the start of the peak though it is very hard to label a peak as the changes are so subtle. 38 mg orally did seem to take me out there a bit but there is not much in its profile I would say is similar to the same amount dosed of methoxetamine effects-wise.
This thing is moreso related to longer disso's like 3-meo-pcp but not as dopaminergic at low levels and not as stimulatory either.
I am going to try to try to peg a description for this thing if possible because I believe it would best be referred to as some other type of happening (other than a 'hole') as the experience is more of a cross between nodding, dreaming, and 'holing' - in that order.
To me this feels very very similar to an opiate but with an extended head-space. It is so hard to pin down a description for this feeling but the best I can do is say it is like a hydrocodone feel that decided to be stretched very far and zone me out quite a bit. There may be be a PINCH of overlap with methoxetamine type feel with this but it is much more similar to opiates at the 100 mg level which IMO has been the most pleasant trial thus far.
As with other previous trials, 2 hours seems to be the standard window for when things begin to start happening to the consciousness. By hours 4-6 I would say things start ramping up and going into the peak but I have not conducted enough testing to determine the role of food and dosage into this. Make no mistakes about it folks, this thing can be a burden to get on the right level. I am inclined to believe that a 'hole' experience is very much possible but I disagree with the terminology.
That being said, if others do not object the term, I would like to refer to the experience one becomes accustomed to as PHADED
I have also found that due to length of this compound I would only advise weekend usage which would be dosed early Sunday morning at the latest.
The reason I say this is because I found 100mg to be the 'sweet spot' for me[/I] and that a redose 18 hours or so later with 50 mg was enough to get back to the sweet spot. I will try to get this timing verified again but I did it 2 days in a row and I know that each of the 50 mg redoses were in a window of 12-24 hours of the previous dose although I want to say either 12 or 18 hours I am not confidently sure as the second redose kept going a bit too long and continued well over into monday after a dosing around noon.
The last statement may look like it is of little value but believe me if you do this multiple days in a row and dose closer than 12-18 hours, you are looking forward to a long comedown.
Hangover and opioid-like feeling and 'sickness' were present (as others also report) with my trials and I would think that these problems are also able to be discerned from past posts. I think tolerance and sensitivity to other substances likely plays a large role on how this acts to each individual and that is probably why I didn't dissociate as much as I was expecting to but more nodding out. I have had much experience with methoxetamine and that is probably why this doesn't react with me the same way it does others.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HOWEVER I will still like to point out the commonalities between many experiences:
1) Issues with redosing
2) Length of duration
3) Mental Confusion, Memory Problems, and Hangover
These are my biggest problems that I see with this however some throw amnesia in there which I have not experienced yet but do not want to as I know that requires a higher dose and thus longer duration and recovery time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^The above is what I think should be added to the front for now.
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Feel free to post all of my stuff I just posted on front page in a manner you see working best. I will have more to bring to the table this coming weekend I am assuming but I just feel like we should get something better up there to greet the uneducated masses before they have their own funerals and masses due to not reading much into this substance.
I would like to add some personal observations as well.
Methoxphenidine is indeed partially cross-tolerant with DRI stimulants. I have mentioned this in a separate thread a long time ago and then wrote it off to concurrent racetam use, but this proved to not be the case (or so it appears from long-time observations). Abuse of ethylphenidate/3,4-CTMP/MPA will make methoxphenidine loose its magic considerably (the dissociation remains, but initial rush of euphoric awe is diminished greatly).
Nootropics such as pramiracetam, on the other hand, can be successfully used to abort the trip if the need arises.
One intriguing side effect noted is post-trip nausea. It only manifests when the trip itself is over, which is pretty weird.
The tolerance is huge and does not seem to diminish even after month-long abstinence from dissociatives. It also translates to DXM and MXE, as would be expected. In fact, the dose required to produce desirable effects is so astronomically high that it precludes any further use of methoxphenidine in my case due to financial constraints.
It is a very unique and remarkable substance, but a great deal of caution is required with it - it creeps upon you slowly and can make you go completely insane without realizing it. Especially when combined with psychedelics (a sitter is a must!).
Methoxphenidine is indeed partially cross-tolerant with DRI stimulants. I have mentioned this in a separate thread a long time ago and then wrote it off to concurrent racetam use, but this proved to not be the case (or so it appears from long-time observations). Abuse of ethylphenidate/3,4-CTMP/MPA will make methoxphenidine loose its magic considerably (the dissociation remains, but initial rush of euphoric awe is diminished greatly).
Nootropics such as pramiracetam, on the other hand, can be successfully used to abort the trip if the need arises.
One intriguing side effect noted is post-trip nausea. It only manifests when the trip itself is over, which is pretty weird.
The tolerance is huge and does not seem to diminish even after month-long abstinence from dissociatives. It also translates to DXM and MXE, as would be expected. In fact, the dose required to produce desirable effects is so astronomically high that it precludes any further use of methoxphenidine in my case due to financial constraints.
It is a very unique and remarkable substance, but a great deal of caution is required with it - it creeps upon you slowly and can make you go completely insane without realizing it. Especially when combined with psychedelics (a sitter is a must!).
I agree with the cross tolerance to DRI stimulants (in my case amphetamine) and also see that it appears to do the same with opiates/opioids and dissociatiatives. This appears to differ on interpretation by the individual but I think it more of 'case of effects' differentiation where each individual is either too immersed in the experience to discern individual effects or does not have a sufficient background with other compounds.
In my case, there have been over a hundred trials (individually with each compound) with amphetamine, hydrocodone, and methoxetamine, I would say that I am versed enough to see how this thing reacts with me and can pick out such similarities and cross tolerances. From a structural standpoint it is very easy to see that there ARE similarities between the compounds I choose to reference.
Someone with more time would be able to show this and perhaps back me up but we have a phenethylamine backbone and somewhat of an opioid/opiate structure in there as well and then we can throw in the 'similarities' to methoxetamine which I see as being least similar to the above 2 examples. I think I may be the one to take over on the molecular comparisons of the compounds I compare them too so here goes...
Perhaps I will throw in my thoughts on how MXPH differs from MXE (since MXPH was, at least initially, advertised as MXE replacement. I do not concur, MXPH is a whole different drug):
-MXPH lasts two to three times longer than MXE. Both the comeup and the overall duration are prolonged. As blowjay wisely pointed out, do not fucking redose MXPH (I did, do not ask).
-MXPH tastes much worse so no sublingual administration here. Gelcapped and swallowed is optimal imho.
-MXPH does not produce MXE-like blurry visuals. To the contrary, it somehow makes everything seem more crisp and sparkly.
-MXPH is less moreish
-MXPH impairs motor skills to a lesser extent (but you still are very far out mentally nonetheless)
-MXPH never sedates me, no matter how high the dose (even at 700+mg), while high MXE doses typically require reclining.
-MXPH lasts two to three times longer than MXE. Both the comeup and the overall duration are prolonged. As blowjay wisely pointed out, do not fucking redose MXPH (I did, do not ask).
-MXPH tastes much worse so no sublingual administration here. Gelcapped and swallowed is optimal imho.
-MXPH does not produce MXE-like blurry visuals. To the contrary, it somehow makes everything seem more crisp and sparkly.
-MXPH is less moreish
-MXPH impairs motor skills to a lesser extent (but you still are very far out mentally nonetheless)
-MXPH never sedates me, no matter how high the dose (even at 700+mg), while high MXE doses typically require reclining.
Spot fucking on.
I agree 100% with what you say besides the sedation and motor skills part. I think you are moreso confusing sedation and anesthesia but this may be a user dependent effect. I also think that the effects on motor function is also user dependent, we can get more into this as it develops but I really think that we are getting somewhere with pinning down the effects profile. I am compiling a nice compilation of molecular illustrations to help get my own personal experiences out there to help others.
Thanks for the post man, great contribution!
So... starting with where Solipsis started on the first page and going from there, we will being with a nice pictoral that clarifies how I have felt it and why I believe I percieve its effects this way...
PER SOLIPSIS:
Diphenidine borrows features from PCP and MK-801, but structures of other arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine and MXE are also reflected considering the aromatic ring and distance to the amine function.
So diphenidine was not designed as an arylcyclohexylamine but a more general NMDA antagonist. The NMDA receptor apparently has various binding sites, and while diphenidine may not bind the same as ketamine/MXE or at sites they do, I think it is similar enough to PCP and MK-801 to suppose diphenidine binds to the PCP-site like those two do. So ham and others have a good point that simplifying SAR is not reliable or appropriate
edit: Sorry! actually that is not true, it is 3-MeO on MXE which is meta... but the numbering on the phenyl is the 2-position for this methoxphenidine making it ortho. Check the web for the difference between ortho/meta/para.
My point it, it doesn't seem like a strategy that is coming out of the blue - however marketing it as more MXE-like is indeed very presumptuous since it is only structurally true as far as we know.
END SOLIPSIS QUOTES
More on the way but I hope this can help as a start, Solipsis did all of the work on finding this contribution thus far but I have more to post which will help further...
PER SOLIPSIS:
Diphenidine borrows features from PCP and MK-801, but structures of other arylcyclohexylamines like ketamine and MXE are also reflected considering the aromatic ring and distance to the amine function.
So diphenidine was not designed as an arylcyclohexylamine but a more general NMDA antagonist. The NMDA receptor apparently has various binding sites, and while diphenidine may not bind the same as ketamine/MXE or at sites they do, I think it is similar enough to PCP and MK-801 to suppose diphenidine binds to the PCP-site like those two do. So ham and others have a good point that simplifying SAR is not reliable or appropriate
edit: Sorry! actually that is not true, it is 3-MeO on MXE which is meta... but the numbering on the phenyl is the 2-position for this methoxphenidine making it ortho. Check the web for the difference between ortho/meta/para.
My point it, it doesn't seem like a strategy that is coming out of the blue - however marketing it as more MXE-like is indeed very presumptuous since it is only structurally true as far as we know.
END SOLIPSIS QUOTES
More on the way but I hope this can help as a start, Solipsis did all of the work on finding this contribution thus far but I have more to post which will help further...
THE_REAL_OBLIVION
Bluelight Crew
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This is going to be a disaster. They're already naming the chemical "MXP" which people are undoubtedly going to associate with "oh this is like MXE, I can snort this shit all day and I'll be feeling good!"
Also, note that the dose was taken orally. How many people, even on this forum, take these chemicals orally?
Its going to flood the market. The vendor has it prominently displayed at the very top of their chemical list and describes it as such: "Methoxphenidine / MXP acts as a selective antagonist at the NMDA receptor and is also acts on the dopamine transport, inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine defining the compound also a (DRI dopamine reuptake inhibitor).
Based on this, it is useful to researchers for in vitro modelling of NMDA & Dopamine transport interaction. Researchers may also use MXP as a reference sample for their GC/MS, FTIR or NMR analysis catalogue."
I wouldn't touch it or diphenidine with a 10 foot pole.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
uhm, dunno which vendor you speak of, but the one I know of which has Diph and "MXP"(they don't call it MXP, just 2-methoxy-diphenidine) has been pretty awesome to me with everything I got from them, except that one time I requested MXE to be available after some careful review of Canadian law, turns out its legal, but they sold it maybe 2 weeks and said "don't worry something like it is coming diphenidine and 2-methoxy-diphenidine!" hmmm...I just wanna try MXE, got no access to K unless inside those topical creams with 5 ingredients like neurontin, amytriptyline, lidocaine, and some strong NSAID. The guy i know who takes 2 x 30mg hydromorph contins a day + 4 x 4mg dilaudid every 4 hours is scripted that thing to lower his opiate dose and it would be really retarded to try and get high from the K in there without overdosing on the other products.
Gah, I miss PCP powder so much (awol since 2009 around here).
Solipsis
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This is a forum, there is no chat. If you are still confused or have questions, please PM a moderator for example me by first clicking on my name and then choosing private message.
Haven't seen any PMs, not all mods are equally active or active in the same periods. Like Xorkoth suggested: we are human beings with lives, jobs, study, vacation etc. You could have tried other, more present mods if you are impatient.
It's not meant as criticism cause I fully support appropriate warning messages and I want to see people keeping from getting hurt sooner rather than later. Actually before checking this thread I started with a similar warning in the 3-MeO-PCP thread. And I just added one to the OP of this thread, slightly differently. I have experience with dissociatives including severe PCP-like types but not this particular one, so if you are still motivated help us out making the warnings as effective as possible. Please consider reactions / dosage suggestion etc other people posted about or suggested as well, not only your own response... all in all the most problematic reactions / experiences can be the most helpful to base our prevention on, those we want us all to avoid.
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