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LA Times: Doctors are top source of prescription drugs for chronic abusers

You are not really thinking this through at all Asclepius.

The thing is, the majority of people who try drugs such as heroin don't become addicted. It is a fact that a certain amount do become addicted. Once a person is addicted, nobody wants to become addicted mind you, once a person is addicted, what is the best thing for them? Jail? Forced rehab? Murder? Suicide?
 
There are a bunch of new accounts that all seem to agree and have similar views to a person who I have hidden. I have never seen so many people sign up only to argue in threads with this person. Of course, I am a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. I was also the first person to mention pmoseman's excessive editing. Maybe her views are simply shared by a lot of people that have never bothered to come to a forum that is obviously unsuited to them and their views. I will not waste my time with trolls, though.
 
I think Asclepius means the choice to use non-medical drugs is not a necessary step to achieve good, or fundamentally important, but that the ability to make personal choice is intrinsically necessary, or good, in and of itself.
 
MDAO said:
I wonder if maybe most people in developing countries without ready access to opiates tend to rely on natural sources of endogenous endorphin production to deal with physical pain: hugging and other forms of close human contact, limited amounts of labor and physical exertion, comfort food, humor, religion, and shared communal beliefs that make one feel like a member of an exclusive club. I also wonder if people in developed countries who've gotten used to the ready availability of pharmaceutical opioids have at the same time, inadvertently, forsaken many of these natural sources of endogenous "feel good" brain chemicals, or have built societies that don't promote them for most people.
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OTOH, has anyone investigated socio-economic achievement (or your preferred quality-of-life metric) by chronic pain patients in opiophilic v. opiophobic countries?
 
*Asclepius*
aren't you a pain patient.. really how self righteous you are.. you get to use because of you pain but the rest of us dont get to use to treat our almants.. or is it you need a leash from a doctor and assume we all do to, or do you need to have someone tell you what is acceptable and right.. just trying to figure you out...

I think there is a clear system with different levels of licensing to use drugs.. those who need a mentor, those who need a babysitter, and those who can handle it all by themselves.. people should be monitored and be able to move or be moved through the different levels as needed. sorta like a class a,b,c drug licenses.
 
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opi8 said:
You are not really thinking this through at all Asclepius.

The thing is, the majority of people who try drugs such as heroin don't become addicted. It is a fact that a certain amount do become addicted. Once a person is addicted, nobody wants to become addicted mind you, once a person is addicted, what is the best thing for them? Jail? Force

I think about everything I type, where did I state that everyone would be addicted? I didn't, I was simply stating having every drug readily available with no consequences would create more addicts, I don't see how it possibly wouldn't. Also, those who would be trying heroin... I guarantee you most of them wouldn't be straight edge people jumping right to heroin. Probably most of them (not all...please read carefully) have used other substances which is why they would want to take a step up towards heroin.

Please don't assume I am just rambling on about things like a lot of people do. Also not sure why you are asking me about whats the best possible solution for those who become addicted from an open drug market... I simply stated all drugs available to all with no legal repercussions would simply be a way of a sort of natural selection to take place. Please read more carefully
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neversickanymore said:
*Asclepius*

Greenlighter aren't you a pain patient.. really how self righteous you are.. you get to use because of you pain but the rest of us dont get to use to treat our almants.. or is it you need a leash from a doctor and assume we all do to, or do you need to have someone tell you what is acceptable and right.. just trying to figure you out...

I think there is a clear system with different levels of licensing to use drugs.. those who need a mentor, those who need a babysitter, and those who can handle it all by themselves.. people should be monitored and be able to move or be moved through the different levels as needed. sorta like a class a,b,c drug licenses.
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I am not sure where you guys are getting any of this from, apparently nobody can understand the other side of these discussions. All I said was open drug markets with no legal reprecussions is IMO (mind you these are opinions, so please calm down) a very idiotic idea. As much as some may hate laws, there is a reason they are there. Without them there is anarachy and with that comes a lot of people acting idiotically. Humans are dumb, and need guidlines..... IMO... calm down
 
I dont want anarchy I just want a system of legal regulated drugs where addicts and users dont have to pay a fortune, go to prison, and end up working as slave labor while a country destroying, violence creating, black market which has shown to have no befit is exploited by sick greedy people.

Please consider editing out the greenlighter in my quote as i did not intend for it to be there is was just the result of copy and paste.
 
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neversickanymore said:
I dont want anarchy I just want a system of legal regulated drugs where addicts and users dont have to pay a fortune, go to prison, and end up working as slave labor while a country destroying, violence creating, black market which has shown to have no befit is exploited by sick greedy people.
I
Please consider editing out the greenlighter in my quote as i did not intend for it to be there is was just the result of copy and paste.
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Agree to disagree on this then, I personally have no quarrel with what drugs are illegal now except for weed. If your not dumb about it, you won't ever get caught as I have never been and a myriad of my friends haven't and we have done our fair share of illegal things. Those who get caught, bummer.. but that is life. I see this as a form of natural selection, and those people should learn from it. I do agree some punishments are way to harsh, no battle with you there.

P.S. no reason for assuming I am on a high horse or on a leash from a doctor just because of some of my opinions, I expected a little more discussion than accusations and name calling from a moderator
 
Sorry but life is how we choose to make it in our society. I think that the addictive potential of pain meds should exclude you from being able to have them.. They have "wreaked havoc" on the population and as you will not die from your pain, after all pain is really just a simple localized emotion, so as it poses no real threat to you then I say for the greatest good you should just deal with it.


Im cool as a cucumber.
 
neversickanymore said:
Sorry but life is how we choose to make it in our society. I think that the addictive potential of pain meds should exclude you from being able to have them.. They have "wreaked havoc" on the population and as you will not die from your pain, after all pain is really just a simple localized emotion, so as it poses no real threat to you then I say for the greatest good you should just deal with it.


Im cool as a cucumber.
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That's your response? Doing a 180 on saying you want regulated drugs to then saying I shouldn't have them cuz they wreak havoc on the population just because you didn't like my response is a terrible way to have a discussion. Since this is how you go about "being cool as a cucumber" I am done responding to you because I do not have pointless back and forths with those who don't want to be civil or listen and understand someones views who may be different than yours. I wish my pain wasn't there and I am currently trying to get off my pain medications, thank you. Pretending you know me is also.... soo cool..... like a cucumber. Good Day Sir.
 
Nothing like trying to brush past a uncomfortable unexamined truth. The reason i bring up the pain is that it really is just an emotion. but it seems to be given such a high throne compared to the other emotions. the other emotions are what other users and addicts use drugs to medicate. So im sorry if I seemed a little short, but im really kinda sick of some pain sufferers using their particular emotion as justification to use while all the time seemingly disregarding the justification of other, just as miserable, emotions that others want relief from. It really is so self righteous at times.

If pain patients can gt regulated relief for their ailments through the use of drugs that help then why is this not the case for people who suffer from just as awful and destructive negative emotions?

The response was not an attack against you.. it was just meant to help you see this from allot of others points of view.. from your reaction i think it worked. ;)

It is a good day indeed *Asciepius*
 
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pmoseman said:
Heroin use did not decrease in Holland, Switzerland, and Portugal, and you'll find that out when you attempt to track the sources for these claims.
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Heroin use has decreased in Switzerland since heroin-assisted treatment was instituted.

I couldn't find any info one way or the other for the Netherlands after a quick search. Portugal doesn't have HAT, but heroin use has increased there since drugs were decriminalized.
 
neversickanymore said:
Nothing like trying to brush past a uncomfortable unexamined truth. The reason i bring up the pain is that it really is just an emotion. but it seems to be given such a high throne compared to the other emotions. the other emotions are what other users and addicts use drugs to medicate. So im sorry if I seemed a little short, but im really kinda sick of some pain sufferers using their particular emotion as justification to use while all the time seemingly disregarding the justification of other, just as miserable, emotions that others want relief from. It really is so self righteous at times.

If pain patients can gt regulated relief for their ailments through the use of drugs that help then why is this not the case for people who suffer from just as awful and destructive negative emotions?

The response was not an attack against you.. it was just meant to help you see this from allot of others points of view.. from your reaction i think it worked. ;)

It is a good day indeed *Asciepius*
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I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your ignorant response (again) has left me baffled. You try and warp my words to make you seem like your intentions and remarks were justified by some false sense of purpose. There are all sorts of medications used for all sorts of ailments. Your ignorant to think that any substance that is mind altering will help with all ailments and using this as justification for using is dangerous talk as a lot of use of mind altering drugs can lead to further problems than the original problems. You need to be more descriptive and stop being so vague... and it is you that needs to step down from the pedastal.

How are you a recovery and support moderator? Done with this, now. Slander my words as you must to bring your self esteem back to the depths of vanity. I am now, done.
 
*Asclepius* said:
I know I said I wouldn't respond, but your ignorant response (again) has left me baffled. You try and warp my words to make you seem like your intentions and remarks were justified by some false sense of purpose. There are all sorts of medications used for all sorts of ailments. Your ignorant to think that any substance that is mind altering will help with all ailments and using this as justification for using is dangerous talk as a lot of use of mind altering drugs can lead to further problems than the original problems. You need to be more descriptive and stop being so vague... and it is you that needs to step down from the pedestal.

How are you a recovery and support moderator? Done with this, now. Slander my words as you must to bring your self esteem back from the depths of vanity. I am now, done.
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Hey we all need to recover from the damn drug war. <3

So why then would the use of drugs help a pain suffer recover?

Are you high right now, or just really irritated, cause that whole paragraph needs to be edited to make sense.. though i think I kinda got the jist.

Edit: but to really answer your question, I do whatever I can out of love and kinship for users and addicts, To me this means trying to help people who are struggling with drug addiction and also doing what I can to help end the drug war as it hurts and kills, utterly destroys countries and countless lives and families, without doing any good really at all.
 
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Regarding access to drugs: the fundamental unfairness here is that certain drugs are legally available for cultural/historical reasons while all others are prohibited. If I am one of the minority who finds great value in consuming a drug such as heroin or methamphetamine, but finds no such value in the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or caffeine, my only recourse is to (a) conform to a pattern of behaviour that betrays what I feel is right for myself or (b) break the law.

The truth is there is a minority of people who truly ARE NOT COMFORTABLE living in a way that follows conventional drug use patterns! Their situation under the current prohibition regime is analogous to that of the gay man under sodomy laws.

Does anyone still think it is okay to force men to sleep with only women (or no one at all), by threatening their freedom if they do not conform?

Everybody has sex. Western society has been quickly eliminating its repression of unconventional sexual activity between consenting adults, which is great.

Everybody uses drugs. But all societies have a long way to go when it comes to accepting unconventional drug use.
 
Neversickanymore, I think Asleepius (Waking Life) is saying that you are starting to talk gibberish.

People are prescribed drugs for painful emotions that are not "pain" itself. Depression is not pain and they would have medicine prescribed if satisfactory medicine is available.

Addicts are not medicating.

I appreciate the cry for personal freedom S.J.B. and if that was all there was to it, the choice would be an easy one to make. Unfortunately you have to consider a user's confused mental state and short-sightedness.

The reasoning for "the drug war" was that border security was an impossible task so enforcement had to be on the users.
 
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