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☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

Xorkoth

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Yeah it does, but ketamine seems to be the worst, since the dose is so high compared to the others. I wouldn't worry about it too much, but just be wary, don't binge on it, and if you feel bladder discomfort or pain, stop using it entirely. It is hard on your kidneys though so be aware of that. But occasional use shouldn't be too bad.
 

higherconciousness

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Oh man, I'm so sorry. :( That right there is exactly the reason why everyone should be testuing every new batchthey get from a vendor, even if they've used that vendor before. And start with an allergy test. I admit I do not always do this myself, but your experience really drives home the need.

Sorry for your loss. ♥️
Yeah I did not expect an amphetamine to be sold as fentanyl, but here we are. I believe the only reason I’m alive is because I was on suboxone so perhaps my tolerance prevented me from dying. Up to 20 other people died from this single vendor.
 

higherconciousness

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I hope the vendor faced repercussions from that, that's terrible.
This actually happened in 2016, though it feels like last year and the trial is still ongoing. One of the cops involved in the case was dirty so he might get not even face time in prison. It’s maddening.

Since the incident I’ve been in great physical shape but my kidneys are scarred from failing. I’ll just be careful and try not to binge.
 

Bare_head

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There has been talk of some other arylcyclohexylamines to cause similar problems but the dose for those is lower than k. The burn test is a good one with k if you dont have reagents.

Blood red is the colour of the residue it leaves behind after heating up on foil.. something really dark/black or yellow/white isn't what you want for ketamine. There is some info in another thread but may put ur mind at rest as to its actual ketamine before trying to buy it/sniff it
 

polarthedog

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i used dxm everyday for a lose to a year at doses between 400-1000 mg a day, I’ve been using it lately at doses of at least 60 mg a day, if I wanted to go to the doctor to get periodic testing some to see if I’m causing organ damage, what tests should I ask for?
 

LucidSDreamr

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Damn I didn’t know ket could cause this type of damage and I just ordered a considerable amount. A few years ago I was sent fentanyl instead of 4-fa. It killed my girlfriend and left me in a state of kidney and liver failure. As such, I’m concerned that I might be more susceptible to these pernicious effects.
That's awful
.may I ask how fent caused kidney and liver failure? Was it result of an overdose and being unconscious or dead for a while or how exactly does fent do that? I didn't think fent was hard on organs.

I am OP and I will tell you that during my worst bladder pain flares the bladder became so swollen that it causes nephritis (I think) where the kidney basically gets backed up with water amd the kidney hurts.
 

LucidSDreamr

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i used dxm everyday for a lose to a year at doses between 400-1000 mg a day, I’ve been using it lately at doses of at least 60 mg a day, if I wanted to go to the doctor to get periodic testing some to see if I’m causing organ damage, what tests should I ask for?
Medicine is not advanced enough to detect early stages of many types of damage. The only definitive test for bladder damage is to have them stick a tube with a camera up your dick and view the inside of your bladder (cystoscopy). Highly painful and they won't do the test unless you have been in chronic pain and uti tests are all negative.

You basically won't know until you start noticing changes in urinary function followed by pain
 

LucidSDreamr

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Hmm... that does not sound pleasant. I think I could do it if it wouldn't be near impossible or probably very expensive to arrange.

Just to play devil's advocate though (and to find a reason to keep on rationalizing my addiction 😉), or actually partly out of wanting to just understand better... I DO seem to recover. I do not experience any symptoms of cystitis for more than a few days of the few occasions that mild, and nonetheless of course extremely concerning, bladder awareness has occurred.

Typically, the more frequently I abuse dissociatives, the slower the recovery (longest was I think 5-7 days after a sustained period of ketamine, DCK and a few others for about a week). But most recently after a solid 6 months of abstinence, they faded far sooner, and took longer to develop (first time round I was essentially just binging for days, but taking the odd day off which is usually when I'd expect the bad stuff to start... this time round I had a full week in between sessions). This to me points to SOME recovery, even if arguably not complete recovery... I'm sure if I'd made that 6 months into a year, after which maybe I'd have even got past the grip that dissos seem to have on me, the bladder reaction, if any, would have been even less. What does this mean?

Obviously EVERYTHING I've described still means I am now at risk. But equally, is there recovery of some sort occurring, or is this just an illusion? What's recovering, and what isn't? I know you said you have little interest in digging up science papers for people but I'd really appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction.

As I've said your pattern of symptoms. Is exactly how mine began. Slight pain pressure and increase urged to piss for a day or two after using. It would go away then my bladder would feel totally normal again until the next time I used. This went on for a year.

Just because you stop feeling pain does not mean the damage magically healed and your bladder is as good as new. You simply just stop feeling pain.

IC is far more studied than KC, but at least at this point they look amd are treated the same by doctors and there even may be a biomechanistic similarity in how they damage the bladder (immunological response and cytokine storm type of responses happen and cause damage which some study shows K can catalyze).

There are forms of IC that are classified as purely inflammation in nature (camera inside the bladder shows no damage to inside of bladder). Yet the bladder itself is inflamed causing pain. Other forms of IC show ulcers and glomerulations inside the bladder wall upon viewing.

What might be happening is that after you use...your bladder becomes irritated and inflamed. It hurts then the swelling goes down. Repeated trauma like this combined with literally eating ulcers into your bladder wall layer will result in longer lasting episodes amd permanent dysfunction if use continues. How much can you use till you reach the point of no return? It's different for different ppl.

Where to find studies and scientific papers? I cited many on the first page of this thread. Start there in Google scholar and just keep searching topics.

To give a crude analogy, Trying to fix your K bladder with supplements and tea I would imagine is like trying to fix repeated spine trauma amd overuse with ice and anti inflammatory. Will it help? Maybe yes. Is it enough to override the extent of damage of repeated intense insult that will lead to herniated discs and serious damage? No.
 
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higherconciousness

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That's awful
.may I ask how fent caused kidney and liver failure? Was it result of an overdose and being unconscious or dead for a while or how exactly does fent do that? I didn't think fent was hard on organs.

I am OP and I will tell you that during my worst bladder pain flares the bladder became so swollen that it causes nephritis (I think) where the kidney basically gets backed up with water amd the kidney hurts.
I’m not a 100% about how my liver began to fail but since I was totally passed out and on the ground compressing my leg for 16 hours I got rhabdomyolysis. Once my kidneys started to go all of my organs subsequently began to fail. I almost lost my left leg due to compartment syndrome. The swelling was so severe I almost needed fasciotomy where they filet my leg open to reduce swelling.

I was on constant dialysis and required blood transfusions. I never knew such pain could manifest itself. I was in the hospital for 3 months, bed ridden for 8 months, and it took me a nearly a year to begin to walk again.
 

LucidSDreamr

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I’m not a 100% about how my liver began to fail but since I was totally passed out and on the ground compressing my leg for 16 hours I got rhabdomyolysis. Once my kidneys started to go all of my organs subsequently began to fail. I almost lost my left leg due to compartment syndrome. The swelling was so severe I almost needed fasciotomy where they filet my leg open to reduce swelling.

I was on constant dialysis and required blood transfusions. I never knew such pain could manifest itself. I was in the hospital for 3 months, bed ridden for 8 months, and it took me a nearly a year to begin to walk again.
That's a harrowing story. I hope you are now free from residual chronic pain and mental trauma.
 

higherconciousness

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That's a harrowing story. I hope you are now free from residual chronic pain and mental trauma.
It was a nightmare. The doctors and my family didn’t tell me that my girlfriend died for month because they thought the mental strain could further worsen my condition and kill me.

I’m glad to say now that I’m in the greatest shape I’ve ever been. I do have some nerve damage in my left leg and arm, but nothing too serious. I still struggle with the fact that I feel somewhat responsible for my girls death. My psychiatrist says I have PTSD, but I’m not sure.

I just got 3.5 g of ketamine. I tend to use it at night and sniff anywhere between 200-300mg. I think I’m starting to build a slight tolerance. Initially 150mg would send me flying. I just started using it a few weeks ago so I’m sure it’ll take longer before any bladder complications arise.
 

LucidSDreamr

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It was a nightmare. The doctors and my family didn’t tell me that my girlfriend died for month because they thought the mental strain could further worsen my condition and kill me.

I’m glad to say now that I’m in the greatest shape I’ve ever been. I do have some nerve damage in my left leg and arm, but nothing too serious. I still struggle with the fact that I feel somewhat responsible for my girls death. My psychiatrist says I have PTSD, but I’m not sure.

I just got 3.5 g of ketamine. I tend to use it at night and sniff anywhere between 200-300mg. I think I’m starting to build a slight tolerance. Initially 150mg would send me flying. I just started using it a few weeks ago so I’m sure it’ll take longer before any bladder complications arise.
It's takes a while for bladder issues to manifest yes. But check out one of the articles on the first pages of this thread I posted. Ketamine also damages the liver, and you said you have liver damage so that's a risky situation it seems.

Clinical use of Ketamine for chronic pain results in liver injury:

https://rsds.org/wp-content/uploads...liver-injury-following-ketamine-treatment.pdf

Doing a little ketamine for your first time might be fine. But we are drug addicts. And if you're anything like me, dissocistives we're my favorite. While they never caused physical addiction like opioids the mental obsession and outright love and religion I developed with this classs of drugs is what led to an addiction that eventually lead to the damage.

I wasn't even addicted in the sense that I used daily, just that I was so enamored with dissociatives that they became a major staple and drug I always returned to over and over again.
 

higherconciousness

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It's takes a while for bladder issues to manifest yes. But check out one of the articles on the first pages of this thread I posted. Ketamine also damages the liver, and you said you have liver damage so that's a risky situation it seems.

Clinical use of Ketamine for chronic pain results in liver injury:

https://rsds.org/wp-content/uploads...liver-injury-following-ketamine-treatment.pdf

Doing a little ketamine for your first time might be fine. But we are drug addicts. And if you're anything like me, dissocistives we're my favorite. While they never caused physical addiction like opioids the mental obsession and outright love and religion I developed with this classs of drugs is what led to an addiction that eventually lead to the damage.

I wasn't even addicted in the sense that I used daily, just that I was so enamored with dissociatives that they became a major staple and drug I always returned to over and over again.
The alure of Dissociatives is strange. It’s not like other substances I’ve been addicted to. They’re definitely one of my favorite classes of drugs, but it’s draw can become overwhelmingly seductive. How do you usually use ketamine? I used to IV and IM ket, but I’ve been done with needles for quite some time.
 

LucidSDreamr

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The alure of Dissociatives is strange. It’s not like other substances I’ve been addicted to. They’re definitely one of my favorite classes of drugs, but it’s draw can become overwhelmingly seductive. How do you usually use ketamine? I used to IV and IM ket, but I’ve been done with needles for quite some time.
My main way of using MXE and K was IV. Often mixed with oxy 30mgs when it was MXE.

I stopped IV use altogether st one point after two friends died of heart and blood infections.

After that I used mxe rectally alot as this was the best ROA for holing in psychedelic experience. When I used mxe as a stimulant in low doses I used intranasal as the effects were quite different nasal vs rectal (less wonky..more just like a stimulant)

With K is was only intranasal after quitting IV.
 

nepalnt21

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it apparently applies to all, but i think is mostly associated with ketamine (because of its prevalence? or because of the massive dose involved? i dunno, speculating)

anyway, what i am wondering is how the hell should i know if my bladder does weird things? my body does all sorts of weird things (they really need to give us a how-to manual at the hospital), and i only started paying attention to my bladder after i started taking dissociatives and read this stuff.

is there a way to tell for sure? i poke and prod around, and i dunno if my bladder is even there lol (at least i know it's not in pain)

_______________________

also, found this


if this is a fibrosis thing, and it indeed has the same mechanism as other fibrosis things, this antibody treatment might be interesting
 

Bare_head

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You will know when ur urinary tract hurts passing urine. Always drink plenty of fluids after use. Not seen this about fibrosis reversal thanks for the link will check it out
 

Xorkoth

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i used dxm everyday for a lose to a year at doses between 400-1000 mg a day, I’ve been using it lately at doses of at least 60 mg a day, if I wanted to go to the doctor to get periodic testing some to see if I’m causing organ damage, what tests should I ask for?

DXM isn't an arylcyclohexylamine so it doesn't seem to share this urinary/kidney damage, though I don't know if it causes other kinds of damage. Best thing you can do is go to a doctor to get blood work/a checkup and see if anything is off.
 

telepathetic

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Just btw, to anyone new to ketamine - this sort if damage is from pretty extreme abuse. I used to abuse >5g a session every couple months, and now use ~1-2g once a month for half a decade with no issue to speak of.

Its like the difference between someone who drinks a six pack vs someone who drinks a liter of vodka, and its effects on the liver.
 
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