• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest Posting RulesBluelight Rules
  • Bluelight HOT THREADS
  • Let's Welcome Our NEW MEMBERS!

The Small & Handy 4C-D / ARIADNE Thread

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
The Big & Dandy 4C-D / Ariadne Thread
(further discussion in N&PD)

Well, this has become available, and I got some. I was very excited to try it since until now it's only been a rather vague entry in PIHKAL, but a friend of mine who tried it said they got some great emotional effects from it. I tried it yesterday at 50mg + a 25mg booster (all orally), and I wrote a little report. It was very enjoyable, mild, but it produced a really pleasant state of grace, somewhat entactogenic. The most notable aspect was the intense sense of ease and peacefulness I experienced.

I posted the TR here. Also I'll quote it:

4C-D/ARIADNE, 1st trial, 4-8-2019

Recently it became possible to acquire two compounds that had previously only been known as entries in PIHKAL. One of those is BOD, and the other is 4C-D (2,5-dimethoxy-alpha-ethyl-4-methylphenethylamine), nicknamed ARIADNE (one of his "classic ladies") in PIHKAL. Since I am a shameless drug nerd and collector, I had to acquire these two rarities. What follows is the account of my first trial with 4C-D.

3:00pm (T+0:00) - Ingested 50mg of 4C-D HCl. The rationale for this dose (after a small allergy test of 2mg with no effects yesterday) was that a friend tried this same batch of 4C-D at 90mg and found it mild and nice with some profound emotion amplification. I know it is twice the highest dosage reported in PIHKAL, but in PIHKAL no psychedelic dose was reached and the effects reported at 25mg seemed a clear threshold rather than a full effect. The appearance of the drug is of a sparkly, positively glittering crystalline powder, reminiscent of the appearance of 3C-E/3C-P and proscaline, but even more sparkly, like facial glitter. The taste is quite unusual, at first it is sharp and sour, but quickly fades to a moderate bitterness that seems to only register in a specific area of the tongue. It felt as if my mouth was about to go numb, but it didn't. Most unusual. Right now I am working at home, but there is little to do. My girlfriend and I are going to go on a walk soon, and then in a couple of hours I will get picked up by my friend for band practice.

3:25pm (T+0:25) - First alerts felt upon exiting the shower. It's a smooth feeling, quite velvety with some euphoria around the edges already. I really feel quite nice, there is substantial mood improvement (though my mood was already quite good) and a warm pulsing glow in my body, centering in my chest and tingling down through my extremities, a feeling I associate closely with entactogens. There is also a distinct head buzz beginning though I feel very lucid. It's more of a pleasant brain tingle, one I also associate with entactogens. It would appear that 4C-D may end up being entactogenic, but we will see.

3:50pm (T+0:50) - The feeling has grown slightly but so far nothing more has developed. In an hour my ride will be here for band practice so I will get to see if there are pro-social or pro-music effects. I am thinking about redosing 20-25mg but I'm going to give it a little more time.

4:30pm (T+1:30) - Redosed 25mg. Let's see if this develops more. I feel quite nice, it has gotten slightly heavier to where I do feel slightly off base and self-conscious, but not in any sort of difficult way, I'm just quite aware of myself and I have that psychedelic twinge where normal interaction feels somewhat awkward. I felt this before the redose but as I don't find this difficult at all, and it is promising in terms of psychedelic effects manifesting, I went with it anyway.

4:40pm (T+1:40) - While in the bathroom, I happened to look in the mirror, and I noticed moderate pupil dilation, which surprised me. My girl and I are about to go for a walk, and then my ride will be here for band practice and I will stop taking notes, and finish up with my observations tomorrow morning or perhaps late tonight. I feel in a jovial mood, I've been joking around and being silly with my girlfriend.

5:20pm (T+2:20) - The redose has kicked in. The walk was excellent. I really noticed and deeply appreciated the beauty of emerging Spring, and my girlfriend and I had a lot of easy and satisfying conversation. There is a psychedelic sparkle to this but it's definitely more entactogenic. It feels psychedelic in the body, that sort of good fluttery feeling that could become anxiety except it is directed nicely so instead it's a light euphoria. I have a deep sense of well-being and appreciation for life right now, with a light euphoria around the edges, but it's quite a sober-minded and authentic state.

2:50am (T+11:50) - Just got back from band practice. It went very well, I felt free and creative and my hands were doing exactly what I wanted them to, and I naturally took the lead and kept everything going and wrangled the discussions on what to insert at various parts of our setlist for our show this weekend. Highly functional. Socialization was easy and confident. I would say the effects dropped off to just a warm glow at around 8:30 or 9pm, so T+5:30 to 6. However, I still feel the warm glow and a sense of ease and clarity. I can say that this mixes quite well with alcohol. I drank a 6 pack of 6% ciders over the course of the night and I never felt more than a pleasant, warm buzz. My mind stayed very sharp compared to how I would normally feel. After practice, my friend and I played a video game, and I became extremely focused on it and did quite well, especially considering I'd never played it before, and before I knew it, 2 hours had gone by and it was much later than I had intended. On the way home my Uber driver was a really interesting guy who went to the same college as me and spent years living in the town I grew up in, which is rare around here. We had some great conversations, again, effortless. The entire experience has been marked by an effortless ease and a calm, free feeling. It's so interesting how adding one carbon to DOM, changing it to an alpha-ethyl from an alpha-methyl (and thus no longer an amphetamine, but something very close) can make such a difference, in duration, potency, and most of all, in subjective effects. 4C-D is not a stimulant. I felt no extra energy, and my body feels completely calm. And there is this great residual vibe, it reminds me of how when mescaline tapers off and it just slowly almost becomes part of your normal state. That's how I feel, that I just feel this way naturally. I'm sure in the morning I will feel differently but it's a lovely feeling. I am very happy with this trial, even though it was quite mild, really. Mild, but still significant. I have the feeling this is what characterizes this drug, but I will certainly give it another go, probably at 100mg all at once. This felt so benign at 50mg with a 25mg booster than I feel totally confident jumping to 100mg.

In summary, there were no classical psychedelic aspects to this, no visuals whatsoever, not even a hint of them. I felt an entactogenic vibe in the mind, and during the peak, also in the body. My mind felt lucid and interested and curious and quite active. I felt good at whatever I did and I enjoyed socializing and was good at it. Overall I felt very calm and content. I really liked this experience, and I look forward to trying it again at a higher dosage. But my feeling is that it will remain about like this, a pleasant amplifier and mild entactogen, which I am quite sure from how I feel will exact no price. Really pleasant, it's too bad the dose is so high because I would enjoy this in a variety of situations as a chill enhancer, but I only have so much. I will be sure to write another report on my higher dosage trials.

Lovely stuff indeed. Subtle, but lovely. It was all goodness, nothing negative about it whatsoever.
 
Last edited:

crOOk

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
3,977
Location
Germany
I would love to try this one. Coincidentally, it shares its name with one of my favorite Dead Can Dance songs.
 

PsychaStevic

Moderator: PD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
519
Location
The woods
Interesting! Did your friend mention any visual effects @ 90mg? Any negative side effects from his dose?
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
I can't remember for sure but I don't think she experienced any visuals or negative side effects at 90mg. I would be VERY surprised if this produced visuals at any dose, I didn't even get visual alerts or the slightest faint static or anything which would lead me to believe this would be visual. I don't think this is gonna be one to produce strong experiences, I believe it will remain subtle. Although I plan to try it in increasing dosages until such a time as I don't think I should go higher or I run out. I have 925mg left now so I have some room to go. :) Next up, 100mg.

Who knows, for all we know it could produce a breakthrough at 250mg or something. I just kinda doubt it, due to the nature of the feeling.
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
I suppose at some point I'll have to try some combos too. At this point it's hard to say, although I would bet it would combine well with all sorts of other psychedelics as I believe it would lay a peaceful, content groundwork to build off of.
 

Cosmic Charlie

Moderator: NSADD
Staff member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
13,175
Location
Franklin's Tower
Thanks for the report bud :)
I'm gonna get a gram to test as well.

This sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. A nice mellow phenethylamine to share with my girl. I can see this one catching on with the lack of 2c-x easily availible. Seems like it's gonna be a real winner. I've been waiting for a new phenethylamine like this to hit the market.
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
yeah maybe.. I mean it's expensive and the dose is really high and it's not gonna attract the "trip balls" crowd. I think only connoisseurs will really appreciate it. Like yourself. :)
 

trogere

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
578
It looks like an interesting one. I like softer RCs like 5-meo-dalt and allylescaline.
 

Aeon Psyche

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,706
can someone post the full name of 4C-D? Before I even start...
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
It's in my report I posted in the first post, in the first sentence. ;)

(2,5-dimethoxy-alpha-ethyl-4-methylphenethylamine)
 

PsychaStevic

Moderator: PD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
519
Location
The woods
Got my hands on the substance and, having nothing to do today, I decided to give her a go.

9:13 a.m. (0:00)- Feeling great today, woke up right before 6, had a donut stick and a cup of coffee, had nothing to eat for more than 12 hours prior to this. Music felt great and I was dancing sober around the house, this put me in the mood for a little experimentation. At 9 I ingested 100mg 4C-D HCL. The taste brought my face to something reminiscent of the guy on the Warheads candy wrapper, very sour and bitter at the same time, albeit not unbearable. I proceeded to clean my kitchen countertops then get in the shower.

9:50 a.m. (0:37)- I get out the shower and noticed conversing with my roomate and his s/o was almost pleasurable and natural. Having some social anxiety, I'm usually quiet and to myself; I found no problem holding conversation for long periods of time, this reminded me of a vyvanse sense of well being minus the stim effects. I continued to listen to Spotify and talk with them over a couple cigarettes. Effects are still light but definitely there.

10:22 a.m. (1:09)- Effects have definitely come on over the last 15 minutes. I've gone from a social butterfly to an almost psychedelic headspace. Conversation went from natural to awkward, and I excused myself to get a glass of water and sit in my room for awhile. I had an unnatural train of thought, which was typically a problem arising in my head, resulting in me diving into the issue until another would arise, then I'd forget the previous and so on/so forth. My skin feels smooth and latex like, touch seems pleasing as well. The only downside I'm having is the awkward "psychedelic" state of mind.

11:10 a.m. (1:57)- I feel as if the effects have peaked and are starting to decline. I watched an episode of comsos while playing guitar, chords sound amazing, and being a beginner guitarist, I felt as if my fingers moved with more accuracy than usually, plucking individual strings (something I have trouble with) came with ease, and I actually sounded well vs my normal choppy-style of playing. It's worth noting I've had absolutely 0 visuals so far, but theres definite effects. I'm not sure if the psychedelia aspect of the compound is subsiding, or if I'm just becoming used to the headspace, but I felt the urge to converse once again and joined my roomate for another cigarette and he taught me and few guitar tips on our porch. Outdoors felt vibrant and alive, a squirrel came from within arms reach and my roomate tossed him a cheeto, which he happily took into a tree. I caught myself thinking heavily on life in general, how minuscule we are yet how lucky we are to be humans.

1:15 p.m. (4:02)- The effects hit a rapid decline at about the 3:30 mark. 4 hours in and, while not baseline, I could definitely take to the public. My roomate and I load a bowl of cannabis and take two bong hits a piece. Cannabis felt very synergic with the tail end of the 4C-D, it brought on waves of euphoria and seemed to bring back that psychedelic headspace for some time.

2:30 p.m. (5:17)- I'm going to end my report here. Effects have completely worn off (minus the leftover cannabis buzz). All in all this was a successful trial, it is worth noting again I didn't get any visuals off the substance, and didnt feel that if the dose was pushed that any would result. Theres a great sense of well being with fluid conversation with others nearby while also keeping your mind working similar to a classic psychedelic. I'm very curious as to how well this would pair well with other compounds, seeing as to how great cannabis paired. I dont think I'll push the dose any higher until we see more research on the substance, but will you around with 50-75mg doses to see if I cant find a good public appreciation dose.

Thanks for the read and excuse any grammatical errors, this was composed quickly.
 

Cosmic Charlie

Moderator: NSADD
Staff member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
13,175
Location
Franklin's Tower
Thank you for your report PsychaStevic.

This seems like a good substance to share with your significant other on a romantic evening. The short action and more mild effects make it seem suitable for this. Definetly is sounding to be more of an empathogen from what you and Xorky have described.

Will definitely be ordering some to explore but more than likely saving most of it for very rare occasions after the initial trials. Keep giving us feedback guys :)
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
Thanks for the report man! Glad to see another. I noted the sour and bitter taste, too. Very strange taste. It sounds like 100mg definitely brings on a more psychedelic headspace than 50mg + 25mg more an hour or so in. I definitely also noticed pronounced pro-music playing effects. And I also noticed that it felt a lot like Adderall in the body and mind (you mentioned Vyvanse), but without any peripheral stimulation or any of the negatives of stimulants. One of my next trials with something is going to be 4C-D at 100mg.
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
I did a second trial of this yesterday, for Bicycle Day, here is the report (posted in TR):

4C-D ("ARIADNE"), Trial #2
"Appreciation of the Ordinary"
4-19-2019
by Xorkoth

3:00pm (T+0:00) - Ingested 35mg of 4C-D HCl. This is my second trial. My first trial was at 50mg + a 25mg booster an hour in. I intended for my next trial to be at 100mg to see how the psychedelic effects develop at a higher dose, but I have tripped thrice in the past 2 weeks (or at least taken something psychedelic - only one full dose) so I'm going to hold off, but today is Bicycle Day, and I have decided to see how a lower dose works. I want to see if the nature of the effects I experienced at 75mg is present still. The setting is that it's been raining and storming very hard since before it got light out and there is flooding all over town. My roof is slightly leaking even through the roof plastic I have on it so I'm a little stressed out but my guess is this trial will have some euphoriant/stress-relieving properties.

3:15pm (T+0:15) - First alert, a warm, soft glow about my head and chest. Doing a little bit of work and Bluelighting. Looked out my window and wow, my whole street is a brown waterfall. Someone's stream has blocked up up the road, mine clogged twice earlier but I dug it out both times (in the rain - my coat and pants are drying under a fan). I'm really hoping it doesn't block up again while it's raining because I took a shower recently and I'll get all wet and nasty if I have to go out there. The water will continue to flow well after it stops so hopefully if it's gonna do it, it'll wait until then. It's supposed to mostly stop raining with occasional periods of drizzle in the next 2 hours, I hope it does, I haven't seen this much rain at once in a long time.

3:25pm (T+0:25) - I'm getting little head flutters that remind me almost of brain zaps except very gentle and pleasurable, and I feel them slightly in my chest too. They feel like euphoric flutters. Like last time, there is a flutteriness in my chest/solar plexus that could be anxiety were it in a closed loop, but instead it flutters outwards so it feels like euphoria. The feeling reminds me of a 5-MeO-MiPT trip I wrote about many years ago where I realized that anxiety and euphoria are two sides of the same coin. Each originates from the solar plexus and each is a fluttery feeling of energy. Anxiety is a blocked energy and euphoria is an energy that is free to expand outward. Reducing complex feelings to simple terms like this makes me feel a little silly but it's the thought I'm having so I want to communicate it. So far this is very mild, which is expected. I guess I'm having a lot of thoughts right now though. I should be checking data on this project for work. It occurs to me I often test substances while I'm working. I guess it's because it provides me a good baseline for understanding how something is affecting me. I work alone at home and usually only have to interact with people through email, and I do a job that requires thought and also tests my patience and focus. I generally have the house to myself during work hours, too. Plus I am really busy a lot of the time so it's often the most convenient time. In any case it's become a bit of a baseline for me when testing things where I am not trying to have a full-on trip.

3:45pm (T+0:45) - I'm starting to feel more euphoric. I feel motivated and quick but not stimulated in a traditional sense at all. I just knocked off 2 relatively simple tasks I've had on my list for weeks because, why the hell not? Don't know why I was putting them off. I keep getting little brain zappy rushes that I really like. I'm thinking I may try to snort 10-15mg of this and see if it changes the nature of the effects. Mostly because this feels good and it would be cool if it felt better. Rather hedonistic, yes, but I'm also curious if it becomes traditionally stimulating or not. And whether it burns like the 2C-Xs. I've snorted 3C-E before and it did not particularly burn, so there's certainly no guaranteee this will be bad like the 2C-Xs are.

4:00pm (T+1:00) - The feeling is growing slightly. I find myself tapping my leg quickly but I do that when I'm excited. There is no teeth grinding or appreciable heart rate increase. I just thought to get my HR/BP monitor out and it measured 123 / 71 at 53 bpm, so very normal for me.

4:20pm (T+1:20) - I snorted 15mg 15 minutes ago. Ouch! It's still burning a bit. It's not as intense and overwhelming as with the 2C-Xs, but it made my left eye water for a few minutes and now every time I exhale through my nose it sends a fresh wave of burning. It's not too bad but I'm surprised it hasn't abated yet. I have a taste in my mouth that reminds me of blood, I had to check that there wasn't blood back there (there isn't, I think it just has to do with the specific taste of the drip). It's getting more intense right about now. I have a rising feeling in my body and face that is psychedelic in nature. BP/HR taken, and it measures at 127 / 78 at 59 bpm, so perhaps a slight elevation but I still don't feel classically stimulated (also I am in pain which could account for the increase). The lingering pain is becoming annoying and I'm ready for it to stop.

4:35pm (T+1:35) - Whew, the pain is finally almost gone. Wow okay so that was almost as bad as the 2C-Xs. It didn't quite feel as drill-like or as much like getting kicked in the face, but it lingered and lingered and got worse and worse for a bit (it got worse since my last entry before it got better). The last 30 minutes have been mostly characterized by being in pain. I probably won't repeat snorting. However it did kick up the effects. Things have taken on a somewhat significant look and the feeling in my body has become decidedly psychedelic in a warm and velvety way. The rain has stopped and the sun has come out. I actually feel less excitable and more centered and calm than I did before. This feels at least as strong if not stronger than my 75mg total trial last time. The exact nature of the effects is difficult to characterize, like last time. I feel like I am on a psychedelic, and I feel good, and thoughtful.

4:50pm (T+1:50) - Wooooowwwww. I went outside to survey the state of things and although the sun is out and the rain stopped, the road is still a waterfall. My own stream that goes under my driveway has been carved out a good 2-3 feet deeper and all the leaf litter and debris is totally scoured away. The sound outside is a roar, where usually it's a trickle. My underground spring that comes out at the top of the driveway is flowing under the driveway just fine but there's so much water that it's overflowing and my driveway is a small waterfall too. There is a deep (3 foot deep, no exaggeration, like up to my upper thigh if I were to stand in it) hole on the side of the end of my driveway and there is an equally deep ditch on the side of the road for a ways down which is only going to get bigger. A neighbor up the way didn't unplug their driveway culvert and that's why the road is still a waterfall. I'm thinking about going up there to help because I see her out there, a mom and her kid, she's just sort of kicking at the water. While I was out there, the water flowing over the rocks strewn about the road, with the sun glinting off, looked absolutely gorgeous. No visuals but a stark appreciation of beauty and it seemed like details stood out sharply. I watched a single bubble as it went by me and down the road until it was too far away to focus on, transfixed.

5:35pm (T+2:35) - I just got back from helping the neighbors. I walked up there and the mom and sons were looking at it, and I realized we'd met once before when we got snowed in and the neighborhood was all sledding down the road. I was reaching my hands in and pulling out rocks but the water was icy so I could only go in for 5-10 seconds at a time before I'd have to rub my numb arms back to warmth. The husband came out then and together we managed to pull out a huge rock, which helped a lot, and then he reached in and pulled out a rather small stick and for some reason that did it, like the drain in a tub when you pull the plug, all the water whirlpooled down under the driveway and the clog was busted.

We introduced ourselves again and talked a little, I believe we'll remember each others' names now. Turns out the guy sees my girlfriend regularly at the place she works, which is right by the courthouse he works at, and he goes there for coffee. It was really satisfying to meet the neighbors and work together on something. Their older son is really precocious and was talking to me non-stop about whatever it was he was thinking about it, it was really cute. I felt like we (as in all of us) made a connection. I think the parents are about my age and they seem really nice. The dad and I smoked a cigarette and then I headed back down to my house.

I felt pretty comfortable socially, just a tiny bit awkward in that way where whenever I was thinking of something to say, it felt like time was moving really slowly, but I handled it just fine and I got a lot of satisfaction from the entire encounter, as well as from the work done in preventing further erosion to our road. At this point, back inside my house, I feel comfortable and nice.

7:45pm (T+4:45) - I feel most of the way back down, with a pleasant glow remaining. I cooked a Chinese rice noodle stir fry dish I made up for my girl and I and it was delicious. I would say this dose wasn't any weaker than my previous dose. I wonder what the difference would have been if I hadn't snorted that booster, but I'm glad I did because now I know I won't do it again.


The next day

Well I think I understand the nature of this drug now, at least in doses that aren't too high. I would characterize it as instilling a deep appreciation for the small things in life and for interactions with other people, along with a body high and some euphoria. Looking back, the events of yesterday were nothing out of the ordinary (I mean they kind of were, in that I don't experience deluges of rain very often, but you know what I mean), but they became extra-ordinary to me because of my state of mind. I ended up watching TV with my girlfriend until about 11:30 and then went to sleep effortlessly, as I was rather tired. I woke up with some pretty bad sciatica pain but I don't believe it was in any way related. Overall my second tral was a success, moreso than I really expected, and this time I will actually wait a little longer and try 100mg or so and see what differences emerge. I'm glad I tried snorting it, so we know that one probably should not do that. Although it seemed to add a lot of potency, it hurt for almost a full 30 minutes and it was really unpleasant.

Happy experimenting, people! I look forward to seeing some more reports on this one.
 

godisatomato

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
6
I tried up to 150mg oral. It doesn't have any visuals and the euphoria is very mild. No change in headspace was noted in my experiments. It feels like a 4 hour long comeup tbh. I also tried snorting about 60mg of it, which didn't produce much effects. It did make my throat hurt for a while though. Overall, I can see why Shulgin gave up on this one
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
I like it quite a bit but it's subtle. I'm not expecting any visuals at any dose. The euphoria is very light and is more of a sense of well-being. I like the effect on my emotions and mood and I find it relatively introspective. I find it puts me in a very appreciative state. But yeah not something to take to try to have a proper trip.

Snorting it fucking hurts, for a while. I snorted only 15mg and spent the next 25-30 minutes pretty preoccupied with the pain.
 

godisatomato

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
6
Hmm. For me, it didn't hurt much in the nose. It kind of stinged a bit. Then it started dripping, and the trip hurt my throat a lot lol

The euphoria gets stronger as you up the dose but I stopped at 150. I wonder it builds up to an actual roll at some point. Maybe at that point the side effects would be too much though
 

Xorkoth

Sr. Mod: PD, TR, TDS, P&S
Staff member
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Messages
40,737
Location
Shadowmeister v0
Really? That's wild, it stung at first for me but then the pain grew and grew until I was pacing around wishing it would stop. I tried to flush my nose with water and it barely helped. My eyes were watering and the whole side of my face was throbbing after about 15 minutes.

I have tried it at 75mg and 50mg (with 15mg of it snorted), which seemed about the same in strength. I am going to try 100 at once next time, then more, probably increasing it until it seems like I shouldn't anymore or the gram is gone. It seems pretty benign.
 
Top