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Phenethylamines The Small & Handy 2C-EF Thread

Xorkoth said:
I think the differences are not major, but are still very significant. For example, 2C-B and 2C-E are worlds apart, there is more different there than similar. It is very difficult for me to imagine that I could not tell them apart.

Now, if you double blind gave me some random psychedelic, and asked me if I could place it? Very unlikely. Could I tell the difference between LSD, mescaline and mushrooms, if I knew it was one of the three? 100% yes, for sure. An irrefutable example is DiPT, which, instead of visual hallucinations, produces extremely wild audio hallucinations, it causes an inner ear movement, it's physical as well as mental. Men's voices sound like frog robots, birds sound like wire tension snapping... it's otherworldly and bizarre. That is a variation on DMT that has drastically different effects. So is it just DiPT that's different and the rest are the same?

I think expectation is part of it, sure. But I've thoroughly explored these things and even if you couldn't tell the difference in a double blind, it doesn't mean there aren't differences. A trip is complex and can pretty much go anywhere. But when you start to notice a trend, when every time one of them is much easier on the body than the other, or one of them is always extremely immersive with music and another isn't... it begins to stretch the imagination that all of that is because I'm telling myself it will be that way. Just because they can all go to the same place doesn't mean they are all identical.

And why is it so hard to believe that differences in receptor activation from different psychedelics wouldn't account for differences in subjective effects? They've mapped out receptor affinities for just about everything now, there is a huge range of differences. The brain and consciousness is so complex, surely differences in receptor activation are likely to lead to differences in subjective effects? Even if minor (or major)?

Anyway hey man nice to see you post. :)
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I'm not saying that there's no difference in subjective effects that are due to different patterns in receptor action. In fact, I'd say there are definitely some differences due to different receptor activation - the question is, what % of the variance is due to those differences, and what % is due to expectation effects - and is it possible for the expectation effects to outweigh (or significantly attenuate) those differences?

Likewise, I feel very certain personally that I could tell the difference between 2C-B and 2C-E. But we know from the scientific literature that often people are very bad at estimating their abilities in lots of areas, and it's very easy to fool the brain under a large number of experimental conditions. And though I have a strong feeling that would have no problem telling 2C-B and 2C-E apart, I just don't totally trust my intuition...

Let's say that for an experienced user, under double-blind conditions, they could tell the difference between 2C-B and 2C-E around 95% of the time. I think that's a fair number, given that there's always some chance they'll get it wrong. Obviously you'd have to calibrate the doses to produce similar effects, and probably the single biggest giveaway would be the duration - so you'd have to be careful about when you asked the question!

Could you then, through experimental manipulation, reduce the %age... to 75%? To 60%? I don't see why not, but remain agnostic until someone actually does the experiment. And if that's possible experimentally, then it's definitely possible for it to happen to individuals "in the wild".

And thanks - it's nice to stick my head in to see what's going on from time to time!

This study just published: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-020-05464-5

Is it possible to have a psychedelic experience from a placebo alone? Most psychedelic studies find few effects in the placebo control group, yet these effects may have been obscured by the study design, setting, or analysis decisions....
There was considerable individual variation in the placebo effects; many participants reported no changes while others showed effects with magnitudes typically associated with moderate or high doses of psilocybin. In addition, the majority (61%) of participants verbally reported some effect of the drug. Several stated that they saw the paintings on the walls “move” or “reshape” themselves, others felt “heavy… as if gravity [had] a stronger hold”, and one had a “come down” before another “wave” hit her.
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Interesting study. A number of times (like counting on two hands), I have been tripping around friends/my ex - without them knowing - and had them remark to me that they feel like someone slipped them acid, even with clouds and carpet morphing. In PIHKAL there is an entry about a person who took no 2C-I but sat in with a group who had and experienced a trip with them, too. Placebo is a very powerful phenomenon, no doubt. It's hard for me tog rasp how placebo would be responsible when someone had no idea psychedelics were involved, even with me. The brain is a mysterious thing.

A great example of placebo effect is the "don't take the brown acid" story from Woodstock.
 
I believe Shulgin's first altered state was a placebo experience, funnily enough. There was one time I took a megadose of ephenidine and my completely sober tripsitting friend was beside himself because he saw my face just glitch out.

For me placebo just means that we have no easy way of explaining what's going on, although there is clearly something going on. Especially with cases where people are unaware that drugs are even involved, like you pointed out Xorkoth. It seems that people's minds are much more connected than we realize, whether by some chemical means that has evolutionary utility, or by some deeper mechanism.
 
Been a while since this thread was visited I imagine.

I purchased 50mg of the "2C-EF" and submitted a sample to Energy-Control. My sample tested as purely 2C-T-7, no 2C-T-2 or 2C-C detected.

Some other forum members here have seen my test results, though it wasn't very clear I had submitted them.

Good day all.
 
Such a bummer what he did, really hope to try actual 2C-EF at somepoint it sounds divine. Whatever that mix was good i dont think mine was just T-7 tho cuz i had that alot and there were differences. That being said the mind is a funny thing and i could just be telling myself that.
 
phenethylfiend said:
Been a while since this thread was visited I imagine.

I purchased 50mg of the "2C-EF" and submitted a sample to Energy-Control. My sample tested as purely 2C-T-7, no 2C-T-2 or 2C-C detected.

Some other forum members here have seen my test results, though it wasn't very clear I had submitted them.

Good day all.
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Yeah that was such bullshit what that vendor did. Apparently someone purchased his business for the well-estbalished trust of the name and then passed off a bunch of stock of RCs as things that were way rarer, and charged insane amounts for them. I bought some of that "2C-EF" too. It's actually really nice, all the drugs it's composed of are great drugs, so I still have mine and will use it all eventually probably. But really a shitty thing to do.

There are only a few reports of actual 2C-EF. fastandbulbous synthed it and wrote a report and some of his friends wrote reports too. That was many years ago, but the reports are in the TR forum somewhere. It sounds like an amazing drug. I really, really want to try DOEF, too.
 
Ok, my lab-result for the old "2C-EF" is back.

expected substance: not detected

unexpected substance: 2C-E (not quantified), 1 unknown substance (thought to be pharmacologically active)

As expected my sample doesn't contain any 2C-EF. What I find surprising though is that my sample didn't contain any 2C-C, 2C-T-2 or 2C-T-7 like the other two samples of "2C-EF" that have been tested some time ago. Nevertheless, I thought some of you might wanted to know.
 
That IS interesting. Man, I wonder what that vendor was thinking. I'm completely mystified
 
Cortexiphan said:
I remember seeing 25EF-NBOMe on a poster a while back and it took me a while to track it down to the NRM2012 meeting in Baltimore (poster abstract here, P079). Apparently 25EF-NBOMe is rapidly defluorinated in vivo (well, in pigs anyway) so what you probably get is just a fancy prodrug for 25E-NBOMe.

But whether the same happens to 2C-EF, I don't know
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Wouldn't the ethyl chain get cleaved along with the flourine? It is pretty unheard of for a lone flourine to be cleaved from a molecule due to how incredibly strongly it bonds to things.

Which if it cleaves the full alkyl chain along eith the flourine, wouldn't that potentially open a person up to flouroacetic acid formation through metabolism?
 
Psychestim said:
Ok, my lab-result for the old "2C-EF" is back.

expected substance: not detected

unexpected substance: 2C-E (not quantified), 1 unknown substance (thought to be pharmacologically active)

As expected my sample doesn't contain any 2C-EF. What I find surprising though is that my sample didn't contain any 2C-C, 2C-T-2 or 2C-T-7 like the other two samples of "2C-EF" that have been tested some time ago. Nevertheless, I thought some of you might wanted to know.
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Thanks for reporting on that man. That's crazy, how weird. Sounds like they just mixed random combinations of various 2C-Xs, then. Mine is the 2C-C/2C-T-2/2C-T-7 mix that others have reported.

As far as I know, the only real 2C-EF reports around are from many years ago when @fastandbulbous made it and he and his friends tried it and reported on it. It sounds amazing!! I was so excited to get 2C-EF from that vendor and was very disappointed. Although honestly the mix I got is quite stellar, very enjoyable and potent, more potent than I would have expected. But yeah, it's not 2C-EF.

I want to try DOEF probably even more badly!
 
Psychestim said:
Ok, my lab-result for the old "2C-EF" is back.

expected substance: not detected

unexpected substance: 2C-E (not quantified), 1 unknown substance (thought to be pharmacologically active)

As expected my sample doesn't contain any 2C-EF. What I find surprising though is that my sample didn't contain any 2C-C, 2C-T-2 or 2C-T-7 like the other two samples of "2C-EF" that have been tested some time ago. Nevertheless, I thought some of you might wanted to know.
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Here's the link to the offical ChEckiT test-result: https://checkit.wien/media/checkit_Warnungen_2021_KW29.pdf

In case you didn't believe me ;)
 
Probably not totally relevant, but 2C-EF got me dancing for hours (mostly U2!) and that's something that neither MDMA or meth could achieve (it is like a cross between 2C-T21 and 2C-B. Nowhere near 2C-E, which can be soul shaking). Not saying it would do it, but if you want a quick, cheap assay, send 10mg to me and I'll give you the results of my urge to dance! 😁
 
Man F&B, your 2C-EF report is what got me (and everyone else!) anting 2C-EF. Some unscupulous vendor was selling "2C-EF" a couple of years ago at around $1 per milligram. I purchased I think 125mg. Turns out it was a blend of 2C-C, 2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 (verified with multiple peoples' lab ID results). It is actially very good but those drugs are all great. But obviously very disappointing since it's not what was advertised.
 
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