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The current vaping lung ‘epidemic’

Egzoset

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Salutations Mafioso,

And egozset, it was...
Ah, maybe next time you can write the alias right, which is Egzoset with a capital "E" and nothing else.

Maybe consider posting something relevant to the topic as well...
Pardon me if i won't echo on something i didn't read on purpose. My answer: conduction mode in e-Cigs is to be included in the big picture IMO.

Good day, have fun!! ☮
 

Mafioso

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with a capital "E" and nothing else.
egzo, I will Capitalize Whatever Word I choose Too. if I chewse to use bad grammar, it's up to me. Again, PM me or an admin or sr mod if you'd like to take up this supposed mod abuse, or whatever personal issue you seem to have chosen to take out on me.
My answer: conduction mode in e-Cigs is to be included in the big picture IMO
Wow, answering questions that even the experts currently working on haven't answered yet- but vaguely enough to not make any real claim.

Ok, For That, You Deserve Your Capital E, Egozset. There you go buddy,

oh hErE arE a fEw more.
havE a nicE day.
rEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
 

GENGAR

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How many freakin e cigs do you have to smoke a day to get a disease from it? Lol
 

Mafioso

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How many freakin e cigs do you have to smoke a day to get a disease from it? Lol
That is the curve ball. People have been choking this stuff down for at least a decade now. Why the apparently sudden acute lung injury to only a small percentage of users? Obviously some of the 1000 odd diagnoses of VAPID could be attributed to it just being formally recognized, but definitely not all.

Interestingly, there appears to be no such epidemic in the UK. Which makes things even more curious, as it draws many of the current theories into question, and creates a new one: what is different in the vaping industry in the UK?

Here is a few articles I found interesting... def not scientific articles tho..


"That’s 2% of Brit teens versus 21% of American teens" in reference to the prevalence of vaping among teens in Brit vs US.


There are quite a few more similar ones out there.

Really that’s really bad then for the e cigs companies
The really big ones are the same ones that own the big tobacco, like juul and phillip morris. They also have new vape product line. They will survive and continue to profit massively either way this swings, however, the ones who are really taking the hit are all the little guys who are just feeding their families and paying bills with their non-corporate stores. Even some of the mid sized ones may not be able to survive if a federal ban is issued.

If anything, big T will just grab hold of a larger market share, especially with increased regulations, and fear and distrust of new or companies without long standing reputation.
 

thujone

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It's all CIA PsyOps, they can't Superfund the chemical caches left over from MK ULTRA so they leak it into the drug supply and turn a liability into profit.
 

Egzoset

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Conduction Heat in e-Cigs = lots of "Baking", as in Cooking, combined with multiple potential contaminants even if of "legal" sourcing initially...
 
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w01fg4ng

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Juul is a good example of what happens when we allow a drug to be sold legally with no regulations. Thankfully, JUUL will soon be required to follow the FDA regulations approvals or be banned.

Juul has until spring 2020 to apply for approval as a new tobacco product.

Recreational marijuana in the states is regulated on a state level much like alcohol, however it's currently ignored by the FDA.

HR 420 "Regulate Marijuana like Alcohol" is set up so that when the time comes we will be able to regulate recreational marijuana on a federal level by the FDA.

Until then, we get to watch the body count rise with little to no accountability.
 

Thomas Davie

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Juul is a good example of what happens when we allow a drug to be sold legally with no regulations. Thankfully, JUUL will soon be required to follow the FDA regulations approvals or be banned.
Juul (Pax Era product) is current;y undergoing a 60 day evaluation process before coming u- for sale on December 17th. Part of Health Canada regs w/regard to vape pens/oil is no additives. No PG, VG, MCT or any other cutting agent. The cartridges themselves will also be evaluated (for metal leeching, indsutrial solvents, etc).

In theory, Health Canada's overabundance of caution should help reduce injuries - unless vaping products are priced out of reach of most people.

Tom

(and yup, just like I thought, public consumption of edibles is illegal in Manitoba)
 

w01fg4ng

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Juul (Pax Era product) is current;y undergoing a 60 day evaluation process before coming u- for sale on December 17th. Part of Health Canada regs w/regard to vape pens/oil is no additives. No PG, VG, MCT or any other cutting agent. The cartridges themselves will also be evaluated (for metal leeching, indsutrial solvents, etc).

In theory, Health Canada's overabundance of caution should help reduce injuries - unless vaping products are priced out of reach of most people.

Tom

(and yup, just like I thought, public consumption of edibles is illegal in Manitoba)
Canada's end cost to the user will continue to drop (it's slow yet has been dropping), but over-regulation is a potential that can keep or price products out of competition. These issues will slow the process down but understandably so.
 

w01fg4ng

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The latest update is pointing more evidence towards the vitamin E acetate as the major culprit. This is what most of us originally thought was the issue and it looks like we were right. Obviously more research is being done before a final conclusive statement can be made.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

tl;dr Blackmarket THC cartridges are being cut with vitamin E acetate which is causing most (if not all) of the related lung injuries.
 

dysmorphic

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They just found vitamin e acetate in both autopsied lung tissue and those currently ill with those fucked up lung problems.
 

Phobos

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The latest update is pointing more evidence towards the vitamin E acetate as the major culprit. This is what most of us originally thought was the issue and it looks like we were right. Obviously more research is being done before a final conclusive statement can be made.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

tl;dr Blackmarket THC cartridges are being cut with vitamin E acetate which is causing most (if not all) of the related lung injuries.
They just found vitamin e acetate in both autopsied lung tissue and those currently ill with those fucked up lung problems.
Finding Vitamin E acetate in diseased lung tissue does not necessarily mean that it is what was causing the disease. It just means that it was in whatever mix was being vaped that caused the disease, but I believe we still don't know for a fact that it was the Vit E acetate, right?
 

Thomas Davie

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I googled 'pyrolysis of vitamin e acetate' and found a number of articles; some chemistry but one very recent article which claimed that ketene formation from vitamin e acetate would be very damaging to lung tissue. And even if this is a contributing factor, there are likely others.


Publication date October 27-31/19

Tom

A new one, 'Popcorn Lung' attributed to vaping. Source is Canadian Medical Association Journal. It seems that use of diacetyl is causing issues.

 
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emkee_reinvented

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I googled 'pyrolysis of vitamin e acetate' and found a number of articles; some chemistry but one very recent article which claimed that ketene formation from vitamin e acetate would be very damaging to lung tissue. And even if this is a contributing factor, there are likely others.


Publication date October 27-31/19

Tom

A new one, 'Popcorn Lung' attributed to vaping. Source is Canadian Medical Association Journal. It seems that use of diacetyl is causing issues.

The popcorn long, named after the worker's in fabric's that aromatized it with diacetyl is a fact long known.

The pyrolysis of Vitami-E acetatte is is way harder to get any info on.

"α-Tocopherol does not boil at atmospheric pressure and begins to degrade at 240 °C.
It can be vacuum distilled: it boils at 184 °C at 0.01 mmHg, at 194 °C (0.025 mmHg) and at 224 °C (0.3 mmHg)."
 

Thomas Davie

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The popcorn long, named after the worker's in fabric's that aromatized it with diacetyl is a fact long known.

The pyrolysis of Vitami-E acetatte is is way harder to get any info on.

"α-Tocopherol does not boil at atmospheric pressure and begins to degrade at 240 °C.
It can be vacuum distilled: it boils at 184 °C at 0.01 mmHg, at 194 °C (0.025 mmHg) and at 224 °C (0.3 mmHg)."
pyrolysis of vitamin e acetate is newly published data as of Oct/19 in peer reviewed journals, I’m reasonably familiar with vacuum thin film (rotary) distillation. For the procedures I did, the temperatures never exceeded 150F while under vacuum. Vaping Temperatures can easily get to 800F. The type of pyrolysis that may occur under those conditions - who knows what is being produced and inhaled.

Tom
 
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Meth novice 79

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Nov 11, 2019
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Have you SEEN the amount of smoke on exhale with an actual tobacco vape?
It’s like they’re smoking 8 full strength cigarettes at once!

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it’s speeding up progression of people’s lung deterioration.

That said no one can actually pin point what’s triggering the rise in diagnosis.
I personally experienced an extremely early diagnosis simply because I needed an unrelated MRI on my chest, liver and kidneys and it picked up the damage at least a stage earlier than the average (most don’t feel the full effects of COPD til stage 3, before that it’s just slower shorter breathing)
Better imaging and breathing diagnostic tools very likely are bringing about a lot of early diagnosis of the illness today that would have been missed earlier previously.

Along with environmental factors.
My grandfather never smoked a day in his life but all of his jobs involved working in and around substances corrosive to the lungs, from building roads and the harsh chemicals required in the 70’s to create pulp in a timber mill.
When he passed his lungs, liver, kidneys and prostate were FULL of cancer.
The only organ left undamaged was his heart.

I had a vape for a few weeks, couldn’t be bothered stuffing around with all the cartridges and recharging and ended up just going out and buying smoked so I doubt it had any affect on me.

I also live 2 km from both a rubbish dump and tyre recycling joint (same home for 10 years) that somehow ‘magically and inexplainably since it’s illegal to burn tyre rubber in an urban setting, is set on fire 3 times a year prompting health warnings for us all to close all our windows and doors and turn off air con circulation to the house.

According to the EPA, benzene, mercury, styrene-butadiene, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and arsenic, among several other chemicals, heavy metals and carcinogens, have been found in tires. Studies have found that crumb rubber can emit gases that can be inhaled.
Benzopyrene specifically is a proven carcinogenic when inhaled.
And wow was I obsessed with this concept when both my 13 year old fell ill at the same time the same year the tyre joint went up in flame 6 times! That same year she developed epilepsy and I was diagnosed with lupus (which I now believe was drug induced as the symptoms vanished when I cut back on the shit) and lung disease.
I still haven’t let go of that little bit of paranoia lol

I’ve gone over this a thousand times, even taking on board what my sketchy user mate say about smoked meth recrystallising in your lungs and causing damage as well.
If I held my smoke in too long he’d slap me so I’d cough it out 😂😂😂
That said this guy doesn’t smoke cigs, only IV’s meth, smack and his suboxone (which I have heard can break off and travel to the lungs causing damage) and only smokes meth when his veins are playing up, so I can see why he blames the meth.
He’s only 33 and his emphysema is on par with mine at 41. Also happens til 3 k from said ‘accidental’ tyre burn offs.

Too many contributing factors for ANY so called expert to pin point the one cause.
 
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