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The Big & Dandy Psychedelic Piperazines Thread

bzp seems to be a convenient drug, 30 to 80mgs produce light stimulation with a serotonin-like feeling, all in all really pleasant. at this dosage i didnt noticed any side effects. taking more than 100mg leads to insomnia for the next 8 hours and a headache when comming down.

tfmpp isnt really recreational for me. even small doses (<40mg) lead to a undefinable state of mind, no stimulating nor psychedelic or entactogenic effects. i didnt get panic attacks but when comming down once from some tfmpp i noticed a strange shift of my mental state (which was good at that moment). it wasnt bad itself but the surprising speed of shift 6 hours after ingesting the tfmpp made it a bit frightening.

there are other piperazines not mentioned so far, which are sold especially in sweden for recreational purposes. some of them are:
6-triflouro-N-benzyl-methyl piperazine
no information
N-(2,5-Dimethoxy-4-iodobenzyl) piperazine
no effects noticed.
1-(3, 4-methylenedioxybenzyl)piperazine
seems to decrease neurotoxitidy when taken simulaneously with mdma.


ot: kiwis: http://www.jhn.se/images/kiwi.jpg
 
mCPP with MDMA

Some friends of mine took some mCPP after the peak of some MDMA. They each took a 65mg-70mg capsule. One of them stated the come up was too intense in the head rush area but it evened out and she could not move from the couch, but was having fun with it. One of them didn't have a bad come up and said it was like candy flipping. The other person ate more MDMA than the first two and when he took the mCPP, had a bit of an anxiety attack, but it evened out after about 2 hours of ingesting the mCPP. They all stated that they had intense visuals and I would say that from an observer's standpoint, they looked "e-tarded", as it were...just constant "whooaaaah maannnnn...." and "wooooowww".

It appears that mCPP adds a very trippy side to MDMA if they are combined. I am not sure what the dangers are so don't go trying this unless you know what you are doing and are willing to accept the consequences. Just the sheer intensity and long duration of the experience has me thinking that it is rather bad for you, and definately probably puts a mad strain on your body.
 
Let's try and get more info on dosage. Like what your favorite range is (along with weight) and what high/low doses produce.
 
mCPP dosage preference:

65mg initial dose is usually fine for me, and then I boost with about 30mg-40mg more an hour into it if the drug has not gotten on top of me. Dosing 100mg+ initially seems to produce fits of nausea and an uncomfortable head rush during the onset..it feels like it is a bit too much.

Weight: 160lb.
 
Would taking mcPP with no-Doze (100mg caffeine) be at all dangerous? I heard some people get a bit floored with it and I want to have energy on the experience.
 
mCPP is noted to not raise your heart rate or blood pressure, so I imagine it would be fine. If I am ever floored by mCPP, it is usually in the head rush area and therefore I don't see caffeine doing all too much to help me out there. The first couple of hours of mCPP do tend to be more trippy, less active, but eventually you get to the point where it becomes easy to move around, socialize, etc.
 
I'm definitely starting to really look forward to when I can contribute my own research to this area...
 
To anyone looking to enjoy this substance for what it is worth, start out low and work your way up because it seems once you have a negative experience with a substance, it is harder to find something positive from it in later trials. (I learned this with 2C-T-7, but eventually, over time, learned to enjoy lower doses of it).You can always boost your dose if you feel like it.
 
I am delighted (and, frankly, shocked!) to announce that two experiments: One mentioned above with the low-dose 4-MeOPP and another (a week later) with a low dose (30mg rectal) BZP produced absolutely no crash. Those familiar with my posts re: other entactogens and stimulants know that I am very sensitive to the after-effects of these drugs (up to 2 weeks of suicidal thoughts after MDA! Thats why I am scrupulously careful with E)...

Of course, nothing comes without a price: What these drugs lack in comedown, they compensate for in comeup. The comeup phase for both drugs (up to 1.5h after dosing) are charactarized by waves of anxiety, headache, and nausea (more so for BZP than 4-MeOPP). As soon as this stops there is a smooth plateau without much side-effects that slowly fades away. Sleep was possible 7 hours after dosing either.
 
I agree that the comeup on these substances can be rather uncomfortable. TFMPP gave me the worst come up. mCPP tends to be rather random...sometimes it is rough, sometimes it isn't. Take the appropiate precautions, such as ginger or diphenhydramine beforehand, and you should be able to avoid the nausea at the very least.

If you experience severe anxiety on the comeup of any of these, just ride it out and tell yourself you are going to be ok. Easier said than done, trust me, I've been there.
 
I have a report on an experience with mCPP and meOPP up on Erowid as well as the trip reports forum. At the time I raved about it and compared it to MDMA, saying it was quite nearly the same thing (without the whole empathy, of course, I thought it was about a 4 out of 5 -- 5 being ecstasy). After a while of thinking and retrospecting about the experience (and after having some more common psychedelics in the meantime), I would say that it's closer to a 2.5 or 3 out of 5 on that scale. meOPP is much weaker compared to mCPP, so I usually do both at the same time -- meOPP is not very spectacular on its own.

Really, as far as I have seen with the piperazines I've tried, I've had better, more flashy experiences with other things. The euphoria from mCPP is pretty damn good, but if alternatives are available, there's no reason to take mCPP (in my humble opinion). The psychedelic effects are weak, but you can have an enjoyable time with them in the right setting. The only thing unique going for these drugs are the fact that they are legal and easily ordered, even in the United States (for now), and the comedowns are not severe at all (I didn't even get the headache that people talk about).
 
I should also mention that I've never really taken a dose of mCPP over 100mg, so it's possible that a slightly higher dose of the chemical will change my opinion. I might give this a shot sometime.
 
There is a trip report on the WH forums from a dude that took 300mgs of mCPP. Shit the report was interesting.
 
morninggloryseed said:
Yeah, my sentiments from what I understand. Also, the headahce thing is pretty significant in that wiki states the PPs are known for causing headaches and have been used to investigate potential migrane drugs. These sound more like poison to me.
Click to expand...
Funny coming from a guy whose nick is that of one of the most sickening and poisoning psychedelic, IMO 8)
From LSA, I get nausea(even after puking everything I had in me), stomachPAIN, headaches, plain dysphoria while tripping, and shitty legcramps during and after the trip.
mCPP toxicity pales in comparisation to this..
 
i found bzp a good stimulant with only few side effects (heart rate was pretty high though)

I found TFMPP to be a pure waste of time, mixed with BZP i thought it was dangourous especially combining 200mg BZP and 90mg TFMPP my heart was going that much i thought i was going to pass out and i felt ill for a while once i came down.

mCCP i have only ever tried a small unknown dose that was in a pill, i am very skeptical about this as i have heard reports of throwing up, although i didnt throw up i did realise it had a psychedelic twist too it, one of my friends absolutely loves this chemical, he gets no nausea and has a good psychedelic buzz for 8 hours or so.
 
Does anyone else notice when you fart or shit, you can smell something to do with the mCPP.. It's a unique fishy but chemical smell.. I remember the smell quite well from some pink DVDs.
 
Sprinklervibes said:
Funny coming from a guy whose nick is that of one of the most sickening and poisoning psychedelic, IMO 8)
From LSA, I get nausea(even after puking everything I had in me), stomachPAIN, headaches, plain dysphoria while tripping, and shitty legcramps during and after the trip.
mCPP toxicity pales in comparisation to this..
Click to expand...

Nauseating effects are a far cry from neuro- and physical toxicity. Although I admit that LSA-containing plants have some pretty undesirable phsical effects. However, they make for a fabulous and total psychedelic trip. And despite the physical discomfort, I've achieved some of the most tremendous euphoria I've ever experienced during the few trips on them I've had.
 
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