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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 4-HO-DET Thread

Tranced

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10-15 mg for people sensitive to psychedelics, 25-30 mg for people who aren't. That's what I'd do anyway.


I would go as far as to say that it is one of the only synthetic psychedelics besides LSD that I have ever tried that I actually think is worth taking for any reason other than checking it off your to-do list.



To me, they are indistinguishable in every way, and worlds apart from every other psychedelic I have tried.

Can you describe the general effects to me please?
 

Lys

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I can certainly try. First of all, the body high is present but subtle, certainly not like the orgasmic ecstasy of the psilocybin experience. This can be or good, in the sense that it means you have less a safety net for having a negative experience if you are prone to them, but it also means that you have fewer physical distractions during positive experiences. This is significant because the 4-HO-DET experience is capable of taking you far away from yourself if you let it; I have never not had out-of-body experiences or ego death after ingesting it, which I cannot say about any other psychedelic, period. Of course, this does not mean the same will be true for you, it is just worth mentioning from my own experiences. As for the visuals, they are quite unique next to all other serotonergics I have taken; they bare some resemblance to psilocybin, but not as much as other synthetic tryptamines do. At low doses for me there is a very low amount of sensory distortions such as fractals or kaleidoscopes relative to the psychological weight of the trip, but with a surprising amount of realistic, dream-like, almost hyper-3D imagery mixed in with them, like seeing visions overlaying reality. At higher doses, the patterns become more apparent, complex, and colorful, and will transform and merge in ways that cannot even be logically rationalized while watching them, and there is often a lot of tunnel vision as well. At that point, occurrences such as perceptions of entities and hyperspatial terrains and innate "understandings" of delirious scenarios may occur, which in my experience can be quite powerful even at lucid doses; either a sitter or considerable prior experience with strong psychedelic doses is recommended by me before attempting to reach this point. Overall, the trip tends to last about three to five hours, but I could imagine it being extended with very large doses.

Again, this is all just for me, so it may be different for you. But I think that's about the simplest way I could sum up my experiences with it.
 

Tranced

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I can certainly try. First of all, the body high is present but subtle, certainly not like the orgasmic ecstasy of the psilocybin experience. This can be or good, in the sense that it means you have less a safety net for having a negative experience if you are prone to them, but it also means that you have fewer physical distractions during positive experiences. This is significant because the 4-HO-DET experience is capable of taking you far away from yourself if you let it; I have never not had out-of-body experiences or ego death after ingesting it, which I cannot say about any other psychedelic, period. Of course, this does not mean the same will be true for you, it is just worth mentioning from my own experiences. As for the visuals, they are quite unique next to all other serotonergics I have taken; they bare some resemblance to psilocybin, but not as much as other synthetic tryptamines do. At low doses for me there is a very low amount of sensory distortions such as fractals or kaleidoscopes relative to the psychological weight of the trip, but with a surprising amount of realistic, dream-like, almost hyper-3D imagery mixed in with them, like seeing visions overlaying reality. At higher doses, the patterns become more apparent, complex, and colorful, and will transform and merge in ways that cannot even be logically rationalized while watching them, and there is often a lot of tunnel vision as well. At that point, occurrences such as perceptions of entities and hyperspatial terrains and innate "understandings" of delirious scenarios may occur, which in my experience can be quite powerful even at lucid doses; either a sitter or considerable prior experience with strong psychedelic doses is recommended by me before attempting to reach this point. Overall, the trip tends to last about three to five hours, but I could imagine it being extended with very large doses.

Again, this is all just for me, so it may be different for you. But I think that's about the simplest way I could sum up my experiences with it.

Hmmm, sounds like something I'd enjoy; thanks for the thorough description. I love bluelight.

I can certainly see why people say it reminds them of MDA from that description. What kind of doses are required? Is there a sharp response curve?

Thanks again.
 

Peacephrog1972

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I wonder if the HO is same duration as the ACO, cause I'm up and down in 3 hours tops in that, even a bigger dose (50mg)
 

Xorkoth

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For me, 4-AcO-DET (I haven't tried 4-HBO-DET) was absolutely nothing remotely like MDA, but it was a lot like that description from Lys. For me it's a pretty jagged feeling psychedelic in many ways, I didn't experience any euphoria, in fact my trip was centered around my mortality for the peak and it was difficult for a while. It was, however, a truly unique and beautiful trip, very useful and honest and piercing.
 

tired of crap

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Just wondering if anyone had any info in regards to longterm storage of this (4 ho det)?

I am looking to get some, but am wondering how long itll keep before degrading significantly.

I am looking at 4 oh det hcl, which would be stored in a vial, surrounded by dessicant, in a mason jar and in the freezer.

Does anyone have any info or experience storing this stuff for the long term?

Thanks,
Tired

Well well.. i was wondering how long i had this stuff.. only time i took it out was to have a few doses weighed in the lab then back to storage...

Ive read that this can be stimulating and relatively underwhelming compared to mushrooms or 4 aco dmt.. so i figured todays hike with friends would be the perfect time to try it for the first time. Its either 22 or 15 (why i had chose those values im not sure...but i dont have access to a scale now and although i could dissolve and measure volumetrically...) im leaning towards 22. Aiming for some introspection and connection while remaining functionable and lucid for our hike around water falls..
 

Volsam

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...hike with friends would be the perfect time to try it for the first time. Its either 22 or 15mg... Aiming for some introspection and connection while remaining functionable and lucid for our hike around water falls..

If you have a low psychedelic tolerance, I suggest 15mg if going out on a hike with friends (you may just keep an additional 7mg to take within an hour if not enough) or take 22mg to stay somewhere inside and safe.

For me this chem showed itself pretty strong and deep. It also has a quite pronounced tremor with some people, not as much with me but noticeable. Its not stimulating, rather filling you with weird electricity. It is deeply spiritual and introspective for me too. Very nice chem that I've had good results from using only 15mg! Disappointments with it happen when people expect mushroom trip or something similar - its very different IMO, unique and quite a short acting too - dont be surprised to be back at baseline by the 4th hour.

Safe and fun travels! ;)
 

tired of crap

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I decided to go with 22.
Despite the moderate tolerance (indulging last mid september on some 5 meo mipt) I am usually quite hard headed, unfortunately.

I went in with little expectations other than it being a stimulating tryptamine. However like you mentioned volsam that was not really the case. I had no desire to power through our walk, instead i just meandered behind enjoying my buzz.

Body wise I found the tremors most noticeable in my uppers thighs. They would ripple periodically as my body overflowed with energy. Then quite again until the energy built to critical mass and my thighs quiverred again. I found this sort of energy comparable to the energy of 2ci, but this was much less stimulating. Otherwise my body felt light as i bounced along on my way. Tightness in my chest (caused by muscleskeletal issues) was neither exasperated nor absolved. I found some stomach unrest on the way up - i felt my first alerts in less than 20 and peaking some time around the hour mark (i didnt bother to look at my phone for the duration of the walk). Upon our return at just shy of 3 hours i was long off my peak. But even now im not back to base... I can still feel it lingering. Especially in my eyes and my body - i can feel its energy.

Visually, honestly im not sure. Nothing spectacular. Colour, enhancements, waves, maybe some breathing. Nature was definitely more alive than normal thats for sure.

Mentally wasnt profound either but i didnt really have a chance to explore as the path was pretty busy and the kids were being kids. Though i found it to have a relatively neutral, yet warm headspace. Things were definitely more comical - i laughed myself to tears (not something id usually do) more than once

Socially there was no deep connections or conversations but they flowed freely as they would naturally amongst good friends.

Tl;dr
Overall i enjoyed the experience. Id explore again, at home, at a lower level (in hopes of reducing some of the tremor - though it wasnt horrific) to truly get a feel for this material and decide where to go next dose wise. Although its not at the top of my list, Im glad i stocked this material when I could.
 

Volsam

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Glad to hear you managed to enjoy it, tired of crap! :D

For me, both 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET are prime introspective tools. They are quite good for meditation practices and rituals. They have definite healing potential aimed straight at the center of my ego's hedonism. I wouldnt take them for just "plain fun" but I guess they may be used like that too.

Doing yoga exercises and stretches on it is very pleasurable - all the tremors turn into some orgasmic energy movement inside you! ;)

The catharsis when using them right may get soooo good and relieving! 8)
 

tired of crap

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Yes, for the past number of years most of my sessions have been filled with yoga and meditative practices, as I moved away from raves and parties and turned inward.

More recently Ive taken to social tripping again but only with close friends in semi-controlled settings (ie like my hike today), with some of my more benign allies, in attempts to forge connections and ideas which are otherwise less likely.

Recreational trips have been few and far between, unless of course, we count all those edibles. But imo theres nothing wrong with these either.. But i digress

Currently i feel so cleansed. Stripped of the stresses of these past few months (lord knows there was plenty) and ready to start anew.

I look forward to working more with this material as I again incorporate psychedelics into a healthy lifestyle (previously i had put these activities on hold as life went the way it does sometimes and i fell back into escapism through alcohol).

<3
toc
 

Volsam

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Yes, for the past number of years most of my sessions have been filled with yoga and meditative practices, as I moved away from raves and parties and turned inward.

More recently Ive taken to social tripping again but only with close friends in semi-controlled settings (ie like my hike today), with some of my more benign allies, in attempts to forge connections and ideas which are otherwise less likely.

Recreational trips have been few and far between, unless of course, we count all those edibles. But imo theres nothing wrong with these either.. But i digress

Currently i feel so cleansed. Stripped of the stresses of these past few months (lord knows there was plenty) and ready to start anew.

I look forward to working more with this material as I again incorporate psychedelics into a healthy lifestyle (previously i had put these activities on hold as life went the way it does sometimes and i fell back into escapism through alcohol).


toc

I feel you man...
Life is a roller-coaster - always going up and down, and when we're down, we resort to what keeps us "on hold" - for me its weed and stimulants but I'm cutting with the latter more and more.

I'm very happy we have these tryptamines somewhat available nowadays to help us around those hard life's issues. 4-HO-DET is definitely a good one in these terms.
 

nepalnt21

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is this one more inclined for generally inducing "psychedelic soup" state, i.e. ego dissolution/ immersed in oblivion? seems a few people report that 4-ho-det is that, while most others dont seem to report much deepness.
 

Volsam

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is this one more inclined for generally inducing "psychedelic soup" state, i.e. ego dissolution/ immersed in oblivion? seems a few people report that 4-ho-det is that, while most others dont seem to report much deepness.
For me it is. Both 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET are pretty serious and quite deep for me, often leaving me recharged and "resetted".

But I can see how people might perceive it as shallow - IMO it will happen with many psychedelics if you simply expect hedonistic euphoria or giggles with friends.

Both 4-HO-DET and 4-AcO-DET will reward you greatly if you perform a ritual beforehand or something that will get your attention away from the daily noise and direct it inside.

It also has a great anti-addiction properties for me by bringing all the dark corners of my personality up to the light of consciousness.
 

THE_REAL_OBLIVION

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10-15 mg for people sensitive to psychedelics, 25-30 mg for people who aren't. That's what I'd do anyway.



I would go as far as to say that it is one of the only synthetic psychedelics besides LSD that I have ever tried that I actually think is worth taking for any reason other than checking it off your to-do list.



To me, they are indistinguishable in every way, and worlds apart from every other psychedelic I have tried.

They are distinguishable to me as in the ACO isn't anywhere how stimulated this one can get. Otherwise that's good info. 14-20mg is an alright medium dose, I hear the people who say take more than 40mg etc...I imagine that the stimulation is just that the 4-HO-DET is keeping you on the edge of a maybe unwanted ++++ but often once you get to ++++ physical symptoms are not really something one can really give much thought to. But to be safe, I say go with 15mg the first time, if you want to see if you like how it pushes you into the whole reason for psychedelics, ego death and a clean rebirth, that's why I only use them a couple times a year after I got older than 30. Although, I could imagine this one to be possible to consider a party drug, like say 5-meo-mipt (never take more than 10mg of that, but 5-substituted T's suck for the most part anyway), having beers and smoking some weed with it and doing whatever you like to party with people on the same wavelength could be nice, like half a hit of acid to get you a funky but still manageable socially experience. Group tripping when everything is right is amazing and that's why lysergamides remain my favourite for that reason, now that 2c-X are illegal up here because of fucking nbomes..anyway, a low-medium dose in a party type setting might bring in some energy and "positivity" to a group of people that know each other well.

I have yet to try a dosage higher than -23mg, which I did last year, and yeah, I felt the stimulation go away and no strange heart sensations (please be in shape before you take anything that's a stimulant or has stimulant properties, sometimes you can't be like "oh it's just anxiety", but often it just is. I got heavy CVE's after taking a hit of hash on 23mg, it was pretty pleasant, especially that it seemed like I could steer the imagery and not be forced (like shrooms do to me, its close cousin, psilocin is doing) into themes I did not feel like exploring (shrooms when taken where you have to stay inside is kind of a sacrilege though, my only bad times with them is when I couldn't be outdoors in like at least a public park at night or even better, the top of a little mountain in town where one of those big red antennas that have a red flash are. where you can sit on a wall and the other side has a slightly safe area but you better no go there, too dangerous, because when you sit there tripping balls, it looks like you see a huge part of town like if it was a model, and on a cloudless night is my favourite types of places to be shrooms, winter seems like it won't go away this year so I might be skipping a fresh batch from my local mycologist...thankfully I have a buttload of this...it is the second most stimulation inducing tryptamine I've had since aMT, but I really loved aMT and its 2 phases where they act like completely different type of drugs, so if you can handle aMT fine, you'll enjoy this one.
 

tired of crap

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just looked at my stuff and although I cant recall the last time I looked but it is now significantly darker than when I acquired it ~5 years ago ...
Ive only sampled once or twicethough so I cant say if its remained equipotent or has degraded but iirc moringglory (?or someone similar said it should be fine)... I will likely try it in the coming months
 

Aeon Psyche

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4-ho-det....I was trying to remember untill i eventually looked at my list....I only have tried 4-aco-det so far. Not that I remember a few experiences of so many years ago but what would the possible difference be? If any, just like 4-aco-dipt and 4-ho-dipt had as far as i could sense no real difference. it's fun, sure. but interesting enough for a temporarily humanoid looking for new experiences?
 

Xorkoth

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Some people seem to process the AcOs into their HO counterparts pretty quickly, seemingly before they can cross the BBB, so for those people the two have very little difference. Whereas some people seem to process them slower so that more of the AcO ester crosses the BBB unchanged to produce unique effects. For me, for example, 4-HO-DiPT and 4-AcO-DiPT are quite different (though also much the same), same for 4-HO-DMT and 4-AcO-DMT (these are the most different pair to me from each other). My guess would be that you will find them basically the same. Personally I have only tried 4-HO-DET so I can't comment on my perception of the differences.
 

OntarioGuy

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I have some 4 HO DET and 4 AcO DET. I'm thinking of having a social trip tomorrow night. Which one of these would you guys go for? I'm leaning towards the HO. From what I read it seems to be a tad weaker then the other 4 subs, and one of my family members who has tested it agrees.

How are they recreationally compared to 4 HO MET or ALD 52? ( The 2 most recreational in my collection in my opinion)

I also recently came into over 3000 mgs of 4 AcO DET as the price was very low. Substantially less then I would pay for 2000 mgs of 4 AcO DMT or 4 HO MET so I decided to grab it. I'm hoping i don't regret the purchase
 
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