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Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy 2C-D Thread - Please Insert Second Disc

iom, great to see the 2C-D was good for you - your posts resonate well with me. Probably because I'm in the same boat of having to relearn psychedelics. Although for different reasons.

4 days after the 18 mg experience, I had a free day again. I couldn't bring myself to not trip - the 18 mg trial was just too appetising. And hungry I was, choosing to go with 35 mg. Unfortunately, the experience never really developed into something rich. Instead, I was annoyed by the lack of psychedelia, the neutral space - and tried sprinkling in some magic with 15 mg 2C-B at 1.5 hours. Instead of meeting magic, the blandness of the 2C-D was just extended. I seriously questioned why I was doing this. Why I keep doing drugs, and if it doesn't destabilise my mental state instead of realigning and stabilising it as I hope for it to do. While the 2C-D alone didn't cause any problems with my hand, adding the 2C-B also added some weird feeling in my right hand. Given how those problems present themselves, I'm entirely convinced of those issues being psychosomatic in nature now. But it was also quite cold, and that may have contributed too.

To calm myself down, I watched the documentary "A Clandestine Chemist's Tale", and it really helped.

At some point, I hope to recognise fully that most of the time, tripping for the sake of tripping is not worthwhile.
My hopes for 2C-D being a great compound remain, as I've realised not to judge a book by its cover or the first few pages. The chapter has just begun. Oh, and there is many more books I just opened and never read fully. Maybe it is time to finally spend time with them instead of opening book after book. Well, just a quick peek into the thios first, perhaps?
 
4 days after the 18 mg experience, I had a free day again. I couldn't bring myself to not trip - the 18 mg trial was just too appetising. And hungry I was, choosing to go with 35 mg. Unfortunately, the experience never really developed into something rich. Instead, I was annoyed by the lack of psychedelia, the neutral space

So I have a couple thoughts here. First, I think you do need a purpose for your trips, especially with only four days between experiences. I don't know if that purpose has to be anything too profound. Maybe you just want to observe how it affects you and report on it. Surely that's what kept Shulgin going. Clearly your trip went in a "why am I doing this direction", which is good! You should be able to answer that question one way or another.

Second, I also think the "not really breaking through" may be particularly in character for 2C-D, at least at "Shulgin" doses. Shulgin's commentary describes 2C-D as "always teasing, until you get to heroic levels". This also is hinted at by many of the included comments. When I took 50 mg, I only felt (+++) after smoking some weed, and it only lasted for 15-30 minutes after which further smoking did not bring it back. I do believe there is an "upper tier", a threshold beyond which psychedelic effects are much stronger, but I'm a bit reluctant to explore there partly because I'm not sure about it physically but also because I think I'd rather conserve the material.

I am going to hypothesize that 2C-D has significant alpha-1 adrenergic activity relative to most other 2C psychedelics. First, reasoning by chemical analogy between DOET => DOM and 2C-E => 2C-D, the loss of psychedelic potency with 2C-D is substantial, but is alpha-1 potency affected to the same extent? I don't see why it ought to be. Maybe it is but probably not. Second, the unique effects of 2C-D seem intuitively consistent with a stronger alpha-1 component.

That said, 2C-D may be a weak partial agonist for most people. That's to say that there is a point at which any stimulating activity may saturate, beyond which the experience becomes much less one of "cognitive sharpening" and much more psychedelic. However, this point may vary a lot between different people. Some people may have less common variants of alpha-1 genes and may respond very differently to 2C-D. I've noticed that a handful of people report an overwhelmingly physical experience with some even identifying alarming cardiovascular symptoms. One report of adverse effects described the onset of 2C-D as including 30 minutes of "blinding anger"!

- and tried sprinkling in some magic with 15 mg 2C-B at 1.5 hours. Instead of meeting magic, the blandness of the 2C-D was just extended. I seriously questioned why I was doing this. Why I keep doing drugs, and if it doesn't destabilise my mental state instead of realigning and stabilising it as I hope for it to do. While the 2C-D alone didn't cause any problems with my hand, adding the 2C-B also added some weird feeling in my right hand. Given how those problems present themselves, I'm entirely convinced of those issues being psychosomatic in nature now. But it was also quite cold, and that may have contributed too.

Perhaps the cognitive stimulation of the 2C-D overrode the 2C-B, but it's also possible you just needed to have this trip. You needed to seriously contemplate why you are doing this, and maybe you're a bit closer to answering that question now.

In a way I have the complementary problem. When I resumed psychedelics, I was pleasantly surprised to experience a dramatic remission of health problems, so now I feel inclined to try to sustain that benefit and learn how it works so I can maybe help others. This means I have a reason to trip even if I don't enjoy the actual experiences. Of course I'd rather have good trips, so I'm compelled to find ways to alleviate the boredom.
 
So I have a couple thoughts here. First, I think you do need a purpose for your trips, especially with only four days between experiences. I don't know if that purpose has to be anything too profound. Maybe you just want to observe how it affects you and report on it. Surely that's what kept Shulgin going. Clearly your trip went in a "why am I doing this direction", which is good! You should be able to answer that question one way or another.
This is actually one of my main motivations for tripping, seeing what is possible, observing it, and if all things go well, write a report (or even more important, when things are not going well). The short space between dosing is because I'm impatient and want to titrate up and get to the meat of the matter - especially when I spend weeks obsessively finding all tiny pieces of information about 2C-D I can get my hands on and exploring the chemistry. I've also noticed that particularly the trips that go really well have me in an increased mood days or weeks after. They do make me content. On the other hand, there are two issues I have with tripping frequently: a) psychedelics are very valuable to me, and it seems wrong abusing them in any form. So many resources have flown into them, it feels wrong using them at the wrong occasion. Yet I still do sometimes. On the other hand, the worst occasions have sometimes turned out as the best in the past, and I was greeted with greatness just as I dearly needed it. And b), I've realised that some psychedelic phenethylamines may provoke entactogen-like effects if the right conditions are met, but are potentially less damaging. I've sworn of rather frequent entactogen usage, and it seems worrying to me that I try to use psychedelics as a replacement in a way.

Second, I also think the "not really breaking through" may be particularly in character for 2C-D, at least at "Shulgin" doses. Shulgin's commentary describes 2C-D as "always teasing, until you get to heroic levels". This also is hinted at by many of the included comments. When I took 50 mg, I only felt (+++) after smoking some weed, and it only lasted for 15-30 minutes after which further smoking did not bring it back. I do believe there is an "upper tier", a threshold beyond which psychedelic effects are much stronger, but I'm a bit reluctant to explore there partly because I'm not sure about it physically but also because I think I'd rather conserve the material.

Given how much 18 mg did for me, I was certain almost twice would have quite the pronounced effect, equal to about 20 - 25 mg 2C-B, perhaps not in quality, but intensity. But well, truth be told, even 25 mg 2C-B can be bland in the wrong conditions, which I certainly met - given that the inclusion of 15 mg 2C-B didn't "better" the state. Also, I'm not really one to search out "breakthrough" experiences, and I can be very happy with mild trips.

I am going to hypothesize that 2C-D has significant alpha-1 adrenergic activity relative to most other 2C psychedelics. First, reasoning by chemical analogy between DOET => DOM and 2C-E => 2C-D, the loss of psychedelic potency with 2C-D is substantial, but is alpha-1 potency affected to the same extent? I don't see why it ought to be. Maybe it is but probably not. Second, the unique effects of 2C-D seem intuitively consistent with a stronger alpha-1 component.

2C-D wasn't too stimulating for me, probably less than 2C-B. But neither is 2C-B really stimulating for me. In absence of in vitro binding studies, molecular docking may be interesting and already point towards the right direction with methods available to the inclined computer-assisted pharmacology nerd.

Perhaps the cognitive stimulation of the 2C-D overrode the 2C-B, but it's also possible you just needed to have this trip. You needed to seriously contemplate why you are doing this, and maybe you're a bit closer to answering that question now.

I wasn't really pondering about the 2C-D much, or my own trip. I'm quite sure I had what I had for a very good reason, and the 2C-D is not to blame. In fact I believe just 2C-B could have lead to a very similar trip on that day.

I'm still grateful for you taking the time to type out your reply. It further solidified some insights I already have (and even had before that 2C-D) trip, but which I just don't want to accept yet. I'm curious how the next trip will turn out, but still give it a moment of time. I usually try to go for 2 weeks between trips at least, and when I go under that limit, its when things to begin getting bland.
 
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(with 50 mg) Gentle on the body. No nausea, just a bit of muscular tension, and surprisingly, no headache. Particularly the left hand feels a bit tingly, but objectively, both hands feel and move like they should. Better not to get occupied with it, though. Visually, not too much is going on. Colours seem brighter, softer, the room is breathing a bit and there is a bit of flowing. Good mood, music on the headphones like soundscapes. Quite manageable material, but as it seems more potential for a bit of "mindfuck" than 2C-B, with seemingly less potential towards the euphoric states. Duration about 4.5 h, rapid drop by 2.5 h, but quite a long time until completely baseline. No problem eating 3.5 h into the experience.

50 mg seems like a perfect level, in intensity about equal to 25 mg 2C-B for me. Just a bit shorter than 2C-B, similarly benign, but with just a tad more push towards introspection than 2C-B - I think this may just become another classic and ally of me. It will be hard to decide between it and 2C-B too, and I'm afraid 2C-B may have better chances most of the times due to being more fun.
 
I'm still grateful for you taking the time to type out your reply. It further solidified some insights I already have (and even had before that 2C-D) trip, but which I just don't want to accept yet. I'm curious how the next trip will turn out, but still give it a moment of time. I usually try to go for 2 weeks between trips at least, and when I go under that limit, its when things to begin getting bland.

You're welcome! Your elaboration is also helpful.

I do still think 2C-D may exhibit a fairly strong but uniquely cognitively kind of stimulation, which could cause the lower dose experiences feel less intoxicating or immersive. Note that I speculate that beyond a certain dose (maybe ~50 mg for most people) this cognitive stimulation effect saturates and the experience becomes much more psychedelic.

I should also mention that this cognitive stimulation is likely to be perceived as calming, similar to the way many ADHD sufferers experience stimulants. I can't really compare to 2C-B because I only had it once and didn't enjoy it. I have done a lot of 2C-I, and I'd say I find both drugs to be quite stimulating but in rather different ways. With 2C-I, the stimulation is very oriented toward physical activity. It motivates me to get up and move around. With 2C-D, I feel it most in my mind, a feeling of hyper alertness along with a deep sense of mental calm and focus. That said, the cognitive emphasis is so strong that emotions seem take a back seat on 2C-D, which is a negative for many applications including many kinds of therapy.

As such, I tend to think 2C-D may be particularly suited to solving intellectual or analytical challenges, and I think it might be most satisfying to use when one can apply the self in a way that utilizes these cognitive capabilities. When I try it again, I think I will stick to a lower dosage, maybe 30 mg. Alternatively, I might stay at 10-20 mg but try adding some coca leaf, which seemed to have an interesting synergy in the past. Yet another possibility is to try plugging a smaller amount, and if that goes well to consider using plugging to hit a "higher tier" experience with less material than oral. I'm not sure it will though. I do not find it quite as nice to the body as others do. OTOH, I don't mind 2C-E body load as much as many others, and I greatly appreciate the depth of the 2C-E experience.

Lastly, I'll just mention DOM again because I'm terribly curious if DOM exhibits some of this cognitive sharpening/focusing effect, at least low doses. If so, I could see DOM being very useful for intellectual challenges.
 
Lastly, I'll just mention DOM again because I'm terribly curious if DOM exhibits some of this cognitive sharpening/focusing effect, at least low doses. If so, I could see DOM being very useful for intellectual challenges.
In regards to this I actually have quite a bit of experience microdosing DOM around the 350ug area. It definitely seems to have a cognitive enhancement without ever getting overtly psychedelic. My last try with it in this regard was at a very emotional LGAT (large group awareness training) and I had to leave. I just couldn't respectfully sit and watch people pour their emotions out, I was way too analytical.

Side note* Even at microdose level, my pupils were still noticeably dilated.

Anyway, if youre experienced with DOM, I would recommend trying out a really low dose.

Back to 2C-D, I much prefer higher dose and I like it orally.
 
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So, I'm one experience wiser with 2C-D. The experience was had a couple weeks ago - five weeks after the previous excellent trial with 50 mg. The first 50 mg trial hit the perfect balance of riding the line between "almost too much to handle" and "still manageable". The decision was made to repeat at 50 mg 2C-D HCl orally.

Before dosing, I was pretty sure I'd be out of my 25E-NBOH trauma. And something had me intrigued by the 2C-D. Even though at first glance it seemed only little more introspective than 2C-B, the changes it facilitated were more present, despite only put into action very slowly. I used to joke at myself that one day I'd have the trip that turns me vegan. During that earlier 50 mg trip, I was reminded of the very interesting LD50 data for this compound¹ - supposedly, DOM has a comparable LD50 in mice. I was quite angry at the senselessness of measuring this value. The authors certainly did not consider using this compound in humans and by itself the value does not say much. This anger was soon redirected at myself for eating meat when it certainly is possible to spare the life of animals with appropriate supplementation. Thinking about eating meat even induced nausea - which I did not have otherwise during the experience. Regardless, while I was coming down, I certainly ate a meat-containing dish I had prepared earlier. The anger was easily traced back to the dissonance between moral values (i.e. not wasting our planet's resources with excessive meat consumption) and my own actions (i.e. frequently eating meat-based dishes). It took me a few weeks, but I've now come to the resolve that little change is better than no change and all my grocery shopping will be vegetarian. Excuses can be made for when I'm invited to people (in particular of the judgemental kind), or occasionally when I eat out (as I do experience certain cravings that I believe are natural and should be sated). Call me a conflict-averse coward, but I'm currently fine with that and will work from here - which will be finding alternatives to milk-based products. And then there was the other thing: earlier I described the bland trip with 35 mg 2C-D + 15 mg 2C-B @ 1.5 h which I believe to have been caused by too frequent tripping. Despite the 50 mg trip being very good, I waited a full 5 weeks devoid any other drugs for what would be this next trip. A decent chunk of time for me!

So all that pre-story aside, here we are. I was eager to take the 50 mg, and eager to see which places the 2C-D would take me to and which aspect of myself it would lead me to reevaluate and revise. But I hadn't done my homework at all. One thing which I'm constantly avoiding to address are my frequent slip-ups with the rules my girlfriend and I have made concerning drug consumption. My girlfriend is pretty much straight-edge. She acknowledges my drug use being part of myself, but I feel like there is a certain amount of skepticism attached to it. Unlike me, she is rather risk- and pain-avoidant. At the beginning of the relationship, the agreement was I'd quit the addicting drugs, take psychedelics at a reasonable pace (i.e. every two weeks at most) and have her informed/present with any compound new to myself. But one of my biggest flaws is impatience. Whenever I have a new compound at my hands, I feel like Christmas and there is the urgent desire to bioassay - combined with being ashamed at myself for this behaviour, I did not always follow the rule about informing her. This had lead to the 25E-NBOH incident² and my 2C-D trials were unbeknownst to her just as well. Now this time, I did inform my girlfriend I was going to be tripping, but on 2C-B (which she knows I'm plenty experienced with). So I grabbed the bottle of 2C-B, briefly considering that I'd rather not lie, promptly put it back into the cupboard and got hold of the 2C-D. It struck me as foolish to go into a trip with such a lie, but alea iacta est and off I went. I'd be fine - if only I'd known what I had set myself up for.

2C-D has a faster come-up than all other psychedelics I previously tried. Judging by the severity of this rocket ship ride, I quickly knew I was in for something. During the first 1.5 h, it was rather positive, but there were already hints of things becoming hard to manage. Closing my eyes and lying on the bed, things were getting definitely well into acid-esque ego-dissolving territory - which I wasn't feeling comfortable with and avoided by getting up again and conversing with online friends via chat. But then suddenly, it became too much. During the trip, I had decided to make an experiment and supplement with citrulline against any vasoconstriction (a common trigger for difficult experiences since the 25E-NBOH) and magnesium (against the neck tension). And before I knew it, all music became unbearable. I had a difficult time and had to convince myself that the feeling of fainting at any time was not real, that I was having a hard time and that this was surely punishment. Punishment for my hubris of going into a trip with a lie. A bunch of lies even. And this unstable contraption was beginning to fall apart like a house of cards in the wind and there was some explaining to do. I desperately needed some comfort and a hug to know that things would be alright. So I called my girlfriend over, who promptly came as fast as possible in the next 30 min. Not wanting to alarm her about any physiological troubles (which I rationally knew to be psychosomatic anyways) and not wanting to do much explaining of how this situation occured I told her I was in a psychologically unwell place and needed her help. She arrived to a shell-shocked version of myself, but there was little time for cuddles and comfort. Immediately after her arrival the fire alarm of the apartment building went off. After some panicked hesitation ("I'm too tripped out to go outside, surely this is just a minor alarm and nothing serious"), reconsideration ("better safe than sorry, regardless of my state") and scrambling ("where the fuck are the keys, I'm too tripped out to figure this out"), outside we went. Being on a rock solid +++ of the rather difficult kind, I insisted on going for a stroll away from the crowd of neighbours. The rapid change of setting helped a lot and I was no longer in fear, only hurt. Soon we came to see that people were on their way back in and made it back into my apartment. My life no longer depended on a hug and she could complete a creative project while I was hiding under a thick layer of blankets watching YouTube documentaries about unconventional aeroplane concepts as the trip faded out. I did not talk about the contents of the trip and why the situation arose that night.

I've been thinking loads about this experience. The problem is crystal-clear to me. But I'm still working up the courage to confide to my girlfriend. All those breaking of rules is a major breach of trust. And the dangerous situations I put myself in do not exactly put my little life-devouring research chemical hobby into a good light either. I don't know what her reaction will be. It would be easy to try and blame the problem on the enticement of those drugs - the sparkle of the psychedelic phenethylamines and the allure of the euphoric world of entactogens and stimulants. But it would be a lie. The reality is that I've failed as a person. And surely there are rationalisations and some mental gymnastics to shift the blame away from me. But I remain at the core issue. It is now up to me to face the fear of the unknown (i.e. her reaction) and embrace for the consequences. I direly hope she understands and that I can rebuild everything that had been broken in the process. It is ironic, as I almost anticipated something like this happening when we began our relationship. And in an attempt to avoid such course, I insisted on perfect truthfulness and transparency. Sadly I was incapable to live up to my standards.

Apart from the relation to the 25E-NBOH scare trip, I believe my bad trips manifest as physiological problems due to some health concerns I am having. I am unhappy with how I am treating my body, the lack of physical exercise and improper meals. I really need to address this separate issue too before it consumes me.

This has gotten rather personal and intimate. I've written this for two reasons: a) the selfish need to verbalise and communicate my thoughts and b) to declare a more refined judgement on 2C-D.

2C-D has proven to me to be anything but a light tofu. It is fully psychedelic with razor-sharp teeth and fangs, it will bite back if provoked. It has shown me aspects which make me believe that egodeath is certainly a possibility within the PiHKAL dose range of 20 - 60 mg. I hope this personal conflict of mine arrives at a good ending. I want my relationship to remain. Both to my girlfriend and to my sparkly little phenethylamines.

¹ Ho, B.-T.; Tansey, L. W.; Balster, R. L.; An, R.; McIsaac, W. M.; Harris, R. T. Amphetamine Analogs. II. Methylated Phenethylamines. J. Med. Chem. 1970, 13 (1), 134–135. https://doi.org/10.1021/jm00295a034.
²
 
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@xdrc it strikes me that you're tripping out on guilt a bit there and that it might be healthy to cut yourself some slack. Always best to strive to be the best person you can be, but we inevitably fall short. And that's ok. And anyways, your GF isn't your mom.

As a lifelong veg I think it's really good to be able to eat some meat for those social occasions. I wish I could do it, I've had a lot of awkward moments where I just couldn't do it, when it was rude to turn it down and I felt bad and probably made the host feel bad too.

2C-D has surprised me a couple times with its strength. A 20mg dose this summer had properly tripping with visuals and zipping sounds. Most times 20mg has been very mild.
 
I think it would be more healthy to change some things for the better and I can cut myself some slack once I've gone through that ;) Anyways I have agreed to those rules, and as such, I have to stick to them, otherwise it is not a consensual relationship. This has nothing to do with my girlfriend not being my mom or otherwise. And it is not like she is controlling about these rules either, she trusts me. But it is not like having certain requirements (especially if they pertain to a long and healthy life) is unreasonable. It is upon me to agree to it or not, but being dishonest is an asshole move. With that being said, I'd rather not devolve this thread into talking about my relationship, this part was only included as necessary explanation for what had happened on my 2C-D trip and what the material can do.

Great stuff, great stuff. Seems to offer just the right amount of ass-whooping. Only wish it was a bit more emotionally warmer, but maybe then it would lose its sharpness. Or it hasn't granted me that yet. And the neck tension thing I have is annoying too - maybe it is a general issue with posture? Up to which dose have you run the material, @perpetualdawn ?
 
@xdrc I think the most I ever took was 30-35mg. I usually use 2C-D for the lighter and milder tripping usually around 20mg. It's been my go-to for a few years now, definitely one of my favourites. My tripping is so occasional lately, and I often find the duration and intensity of 2C-D is the easiest to fit in for a night out.
 
Great stuff, great stuff. Seems to offer just the right amount of ass-whooping. Only wish it was a bit more emotionally warmer, but maybe then it would lose its sharpness. Or it hasn't granted me that yet. And the neck tension thing I have is annoying too - maybe it is a general issue with posture? Up to which dose have you run the material, @perpetualdawn ?

Pretty much all psychedelics have several common "side-effects": vasoconstriction, increased muscle tone, "body energies", GI activation, immune system activation, etc. Neck tension is very common. People call this stuff "body load", but I get the feeling there's a lot more to it than that. Like, I think these may be the early stages of "work" that leads to healing and regeneration of these tissues and body systems, just as the trip is the early stages of the healing and regeneration of the psyche.

Muscle tension is not always completely involuntary either. By becoming conscious of tensions, they can sometimes be relaxed. As to the question of why such tensions exist "by default", well perhaps it is to maintain some particular posture. It's not necessarily a good or bad posture. It may simply be a posture with a purpose behind it, an adaptation shaped by earlier life experiences. If you allow the process to happen, your body can show you things about yourself and about other things too that you maybe couldn't understand before without that awareness. If you want to "correct" your posture, then the psychedelic space, particularly the period before the plateau, is an excellent place to initiate any new habits, but don't forget to make peace with the old habits which may be deeply rooted.

I agree that 2C-D is emotionally cold. It feels like the cognitive aspect, which I agree is very "sharp", dominates so much that the emotions kinda take a back seat. It is very interesting for what it is but is definitely not a favorite. Have you tried 2C-E? It's almost polar opposite in terms of emotional depth. It is not "sharp" but feels quite active (in a good way) on the cognitive side too. Some people describe it as "emotionally neutral" by which they mean that there is similar propensity for positive vs. negative states versus a "positive push" for most other phenethylamines. I don't really like to think of it on those terms. I feel like it is emotionally rich and authentic---intense even, but with a few notable exceptions, my trips have been mostly warm and positive feeling to me. Around 6 hours in, I often get an intense entactogenic rush that feels incredibly warm, grounded, and blissful. It's about the best feeling I can recall having, even among psychedelics, though plenty of other psychedelics have gotten me to similar places.

Another one I can suggest is 2C-T-2, which I know you had interest in. It is relatively short, quite powerful, and has a lot of heart. To me it feels somehow more sparkly and less analytical than 2C-E, if that makes sense. Even though 2C-E has amazing visuals (probably among the best), I'm often so engrossed in the headspace that I don't care. With 2C-T-2, the visual "fireworks" displays can be incredibly engaging and uplifting. Keep in mind that these two have a reputation for "body load" including potentially nausea and vomiting. I'm not particularly prone to nausea on phenethylamines, but I've had some real queasy moments while coming up on 2C-T-2.

Happy trips!
 
2C-D has surprised me a couple times with its strength. A 20mg dose this summer had properly tripping with visuals and zipping sounds. Most times 20mg has been very mild.
Same. Most of my experiences were about what I would have expected from the dose. Heck, I think I titrated up to 20mg+ rectally once and had a lovely time. But I won't forget the one 30mg oral experience that was unexpectedly full value.
my trips have been mostly warm and positive feeling to me
That's interesting that you find 2C-E to be more congenial! I liked them both, and agree that 2C-D feels cool, almost brisk. 2C-E was much more complex for me, but it's definitely emotionally neutral, warm only by comparison. It's more threatening to me, but also more rewarding.
 
That's interesting that you find 2C-E to be more congenial! I liked them both, and agree that 2C-D feels cool, almost brisk. 2C-E was much more complex for me, but it's definitely emotionally neutral, warm only by comparison. It's more threatening to me, but also more rewarding.

I guess by "warm" and "cold", I mean emotionally open/expanded versus emotionally confined/narrowed. I just feel like the range of emotions on 2C-D is much narrower. I think cool and brisk are good words to describe the more emotional space, at least when things are upbeat. I can definitely see it turning quite vicious in terms of anxiety of even panic in the event things get dark. Overall though, I just find it to be much more of a mental/thinking trip. I imagine it being very useful for undertaking work that demands intellectual creativity, but it seems less useful from a therapeutic standpoint, at least for "psycholytic" types that rely on sub-ego-loss doses. Emotions can perhaps be analyzed and discussed from a detached viewpoint on 2C-D, but immersive emotional processing of the kind I got from 2C-E (without even asking for it, really) doesn't seem likely to be possible on 2C-D. I should note that LE-25 (2C-D) studies done in Germany used doses that induced full ego loss, which I consider to be a fundamentally different kind of therapy than psycholytic, and I'm guessing 2C-D was chosen for this because of its short duration. This makes me wonder if those researchers considered psilocybin, and if not, why not?
 
That's interesting that you find 2C-E to be more congenial! I liked them both, and agree that 2C-D feels cool, almost brisk. 2C-E was much more complex for me, but it's definitely emotionally neutral, warm only by comparison. It's more threatening to me, but also more rewarding.

I guess by "warm" and "cold", I mean emotionally open/expanded versus emotionally confined/narrowed. I just feel like the range of emotions on 2C-D is much narrower. I think cool and brisk are good words to describe the more emotional space, at least when things are upbeat. I can definitely see it turning quite vicious in terms of anxiety of even panic in the event things get dark. Overall though, I just find it to be much more of a mental/thinking trip. I imagine it being very useful for undertaking work that demands intellectual creativity, but it seems less useful from a therapeutic standpoint, at least for "psycholytic" types that rely on sub-ego-loss doses. Emotions can perhaps be analyzed and discussed from a detached viewpoint on 2C-D, but immersive emotional processing of the kind I got from 2C-E (without even asking for it, really) doesn't seem likely to be possible on 2C-D. I should note that LE-25 (2C-D) studies done in Germany used doses that induced full ego loss, which I consider to be a fundamentally different kind of therapy than psycholytic, and I'm guessing 2C-D was chosen for this because of its short duration. This makes me wonder if those researchers considered psilocybin, and if not, why not?

Edit: I somehow lost the paragraph I wrote about my recent experience with 2C-E. I only had one particularly "negative" trip with 2C-E, and that was my rather recent 5 mg trip, which at the time is the strongest dose I'd had since I'd stopped using psychedelics for 11 years. That 5 mg trip was very remarkable though. At one hour, I experienced a la purga like response in which I briefly felt very nausea (did vomit) and sweat so much over the course of 2 or 3 minutes that it was dripping on the floor. And with that response came a feeling of enormous emotional burden, which felt like a dark cloud surrounding my head and upper torso and seemed to be latched on to me. I was just kind of stuck there, in that dark state for most of the trip. Finally in the last couple hours, I started to talk through things with my wife, and I had a tremendous catharsis in which I cried harder and longer than I can remember---like an hour-and-a-half. The emotional pain just kept on rising to the surface and coming out. It was rather exhausting, but when I woke up the next morning, I felt like I had been released from that burden which I'd been carrying around and building on for so many years (really, those 11 years past), and I believe this profound change was permanent. So for this one "negative" 12 hour trip seems to be feeling, I've probably felt at least a little better every day of my life since. Like I said above, I don't see 2C-D bringing me to in to such an immersive and emotionally authentic space.
 
Pretty much all psychedelics have several common "side-effects": vasoconstriction, increased muscle tone, "body energies", GI activation, immune system activation, etc. Neck tension is very common. People call this stuff "body load", but I get the feeling there's a lot more to it than that. Like, I think these may be the early stages of "work" that leads to healing and regeneration of these tissues and body systems, just as the trip is the early stages of the healing and regeneration of the psyche.

Of course I am aware that these are typical side effects of psychedelics. By many psychedelic enthusiasts, they are often seen as some sort of payment for the ride, if you will. Some of these side effects are even framed as positive, with vomiting being a symbolic cleansing of mental and physical toxins alike. And I myself have trips where such objectively unpleasant bodily effects were mentally very freeing, like shaking all sorrow away from my body. Yet I still don't believe in the somewhat masochist tendencies of not alleviating unpleasant side effects at all. I do wonder though what is the basis of your assumption for psychedelic trips causing a physical healing of the body.

If you want to "correct" your posture, then the psychedelic space, particularly the period before the plateau, is an excellent place to initiate any new habits, but don't forget to make peace with the old habits which may be deeply rooted.

It is not so much posture, but a general unhappiness about not taking care of body enough. I think I've got the message, but right now I have real troubles to get up and *act* upon all that knowledge I've gathered about myself.

Have you tried 2C-E? It's almost polar opposite in terms of emotional depth. It is not "sharp" but feels quite active (in a good way) on the cognitive side too. Some people describe it as "emotionally neutral" by which they mean that there is similar propensity for positive vs. negative states versus a "positive push" for most other phenethylamines. I don't really like to think of it on those terms. I feel like it is emotionally rich and authentic---intense even, but with a few notable exceptions, my trips have been mostly warm and positive feeling to me. Around 6 hours in, I often get an intense entactogenic rush that feels incredibly warm, grounded, and blissful. It's about the best feeling I can recall having, even among psychedelics, though plenty of other psychedelics have gotten me to similar places.

I've tried 2C-E, and it really is a special compound. But it turns me into a tiny cogwheel of an enigmatic universe. It also has loads more bodyload to me and acts too long for me to be comfortable with my recent streaks of difficult experiences. I'd rather continue with the 2C-D and 2C-B in the upcoming trips, after I sorted some things out. But of course I do plan to revisit it.

Keep in mind that these two have a reputation for "body load" including potentially nausea and vomiting. I'm not particularly prone to nausea on phenethylamines, but I've had some real queasy moments while coming up on 2C-T-2

At the present time, I don't entirely trust myself and the compounds. I'm really eager to try the last two of the magical half dozen, but currently I'm too anxious. 2C-T-2 and especially 2C-T-7 seem sketchy enough to cause a panic-spiral in myself due to misinterpreting some physiological signs. So, same as with 2C-E, unfortunately.

Emotions can perhaps be analyzed and discussed from a detached viewpoint on 2C-D, but immersive emotional processing of the kind I got from 2C-E (without even asking for it, really) doesn't seem likely to be possible on 2C-D. I should note that LE-25 (2C-D) studies done in Germany used doses that induced full ego loss, which I consider to be a fundamentally different kind of therapy than psycholytic, and I'm guessing 2C-D was chosen for this because of its short duration. This makes me wonder if those researchers considered psilocybin, and if not, why not?

Where do you have the information that those dosages induced full ego loss? They certainly described ego-weakening, but full? Leuner also worked with 4-HO-DET and 4-PO-DET. I think the choice for 2C-D was much more one of practicality and legality. They did not really publish anything (other than just now, "Psycholytische Therapie nach Hanscarl Leuner", Passie, Schlichting, Bolle, Nachtschatten Verlag) and they tried their best to obfuscate the actual compound at the time, hoping for it to evade popularity and as such bans.
 
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