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Reasoning for/against a creator

Gormur

Gormur

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
3,331
For:
There's a creator because we can't explain everything with science
There's a creator because it gives people a purpose, therefore Creator
There's a creator because people write books that come true; there are prophets and magicians therefore a creator must be behind it

Against:
There's no creator because we can't explain it with science
There's no creator as it serves no purpose
There's no creator despite visionaries writing books that predict the future

Conclusion:
A creator wouldn't need to predict the future or interact with humans in order to exist. What it'd need to do is let us all know of its existence without searching for it. I don't think I've ever heard a good breakdown on this from either side as it seems like people often just get angry about it or they don't know what they're talking about. Thoughts?
 
If you think of life as a puzzle with thousands of pieces that you received when you were born, you can simply put it together the way it obviously fits.

The biggest issue I had was all the other people here putting together their own puzzles kept giving me poor advice. It took 53 years before I truly learned how to sort through their noise and find the image I was putting together was far more beautiful then expected.

To your huge questions in life I cannot give you answers but I can say that finding them begins when you stop listening to me and truly observe with no one else's prejudice what your life picture looks like.
 
I'm not sure why science is mentioned at all. Science doesn't deal with what isn't observable and God could arguably be not directly observable, i.e. "the hidden hand" theory.

I think the truth of reality is beyond our comprehension. Even if you put the sum of all human knowledge together, more is a mystery than what is known.

If there's a creator, its nature is a mystery. If there isn't a creator, then the reason for there not being one is also a mystery.

If you want to be logical about this, then neither side can be adequately resolved because there is insufficient info. However, logic is part of the problem because irrationality is also part of human consciousness and that is much harder to qualify.
 
That’s where the Bible comes in. When you learn of God and who and how he is - you realize he’s perfect. He will be enough for you to accept, accepting the fact that he knows it all and you don’t have to.
 
MyrandaK said:
That’s where the Bible comes in. When you learn of God and who and how he is - you realize he’s perfect. He will be enough for you to accept, accepting the fact that he knows it all and you don’t have to.
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I don't see how the Bible relates to this either.

The OP is asking about reasoning. The Bible is not a reasonable (rational) source. Neither is science, really.
 
It's a shame we can't realise that we're just not equipped to comprehend the topic properly - would have saved a whole heap of nonsense here on planet earth with the endless insistence on defining 'god' etc

We can't even comprehend really big numbers ffs...
 
God is only apparent through the intuitive and observative mind. If you apply logical systems to complex metaphysical phenomena then you will just create more confusion and misunderstanding and will be contradicting the very nature of what we call God or creator which operates under the unpredictable flow of nature and thought and desire.

That’s why Christians eventually started believing that science is the devil. And in some ways it is. It is a systematic manifestation of collective resistance towards the supernatural. Early scientists were influence by supernatural beings that want to destroy humanity and create a gradual decline of human evolution and psychic ability while simultaneously maintaining the illusion that we are actually advancing as a civilization. Scientists hate god and wish that god doesn’t exist and so they have cognitive dissonance towards the psychic and intuitive reality that proves god to be real.

However people just say the word god whenever they experience any type of phenomenon that makes them feel emotionally good or enlightened in some way. It is not usually the true god that permeates the entire multiverse and simultaneously aware of all things in existence.

The true god might not even seem like a god to some people but rather a very complex and confusing existence where you realize that you in your individual primal body actually are god and everything else in the universe that you perceive as separate is simultaneously aware of your existence and is responding on subconscious level to your thoughts and desires and concerns. As well as realizing that you yourself created existence for your own expansion and are just playing it out on a holographic reality that reflects itself back to you.

You can prove god to be real by looking at how often like-minded people, places and things tend to align with eachother and gravitate towards eachother and come into contact with each other through the form of seemingly incredible coincidences and being at the right place at the right time as they say it and then ultimately end up creating some sort of achievement together that benefits the evolution of society. If there was no type of positive momentum in the universe like that then that wouldn’t happen as often if not at all. We would be wandering aimlessly in despair until we just eventually die out. That is what it’s like to have no god. That is why when people are in despair and everything is off balance then we call that the devil. Because it is the lack of that universal momentum that is necessary for our ability to feel good and to have happy fulfilling enjoyable experiences and to be more aware and enlightened and to be more conscious of our decisions.

When you have too much resistance and fear in your life then you restrict this natural energy to come into your life and you suffer greatly and experience a lack of god and the potential positive energy that is inherent within the universe and all other universes. When god withholds his will from a particular universe that universe dies out. That is why the universe accelerates and expands rather than fall back into itself. God wills the universe to reach out further onwards.

When god withholds his will from a human then that human experiences death. It is a choice that god makes when he feels that there is nothing more to learn or to be gained from that particular experience. That is why he also wiped out entire civilizations that were eventually turned into myths and biblical stories. Which again is something that Christians associate with not following gods rules and indulging in activities and behaviors that are deemed to be the work of the devil. Which will happen again in our lifetime if we do not become enlightened.
 
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As I see it, creator is just another word for other. If someone I loved or didn't love was the creator of the known universe, would that change how I feel? Probably not, but arguably so.

If the person or thing that created this universe was fallible, I would submit and say I am sorry and thankful and move on to create my own life under certain conditions, not just as per their request- I would give it a go according to what is. I think that is best.
 
The stall/turret/stand is The Devil..

Which is our choice station..

Within the realm of time. Occupying the middle.. this present moment as an oval..

Your face or head on a stick.. like a totem..
 
In your view of existence do you see a creator as making us a lesser being or do you see a host of lesser creators creating us the more complex being?

I think most people have a fundamental view that our creator is more complex and we are the lesser being when the universe around me points the opposite direction.

My view is not fixed to some belief it's just what i see, my very being is entirely supported by a host of micro biology. While my mother hosted the process there was a host of micro biology involved in my very creation. We aren't really very separate from the world we are in, we are like tiny specialized self replicating sensors that can keep the planet safe from perils.

I see humanity as the God lifted up by the life that supports us in hopes we will advance. We must step out of blind ignorance and see this support for what it is and not lop it off like fools.
 
Cheshire_Kat said:
After over 85 years on this earth and over 60 years searching for answers to questions like that I must admit that I am no closer to the answers than when I started.
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Perhaps you are not asking the right questions.

My focus is morals and ethics and I always get an answer or conclusion to those questions.

Moral answers can be gleaned from logic and reason even in judging the gods on offer.

Vile and immoral gods to this questioner.

Have you at least learned enough to condemn Yahweh for the genocidal satanic god he is shown to be?

Regards
DL
 
Snafu of the Forest said:
Even if there is a creator... Who created the creator?

I do not believe our brains can even comprehend certain things, even if we were given the answer...
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Good question.

Do you think a creator god would ever screw up enough to have to reboot his program with genocide?

Would such a creator god, if a good god, kill his errors or just repair them?

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Good question.

Do you think a creator god would ever screw up enough to have to reboot his program with genocide?

Would such a creator god, if a good god, kill his errors or just repair them?

Regards
DL
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I think God is indeed fallible, otherwise fallacy itself would not exist.

God created everything. Duality, obviously, but if god did not create error, that would mean Men were capable of doing something not even god can do, and that doesn't make sense to me.

Error must exist in duality.
 
MyrandaK said:
That’s where the Bible comes in. When you learn of God and who and how he is - you realize he’s perfect. He will be enough for you to accept, accepting the fact that he knows it all and you don’t have to.
Click to expand...

Your god has been described as quite vile from day one by most moralists.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

Yahweh asked/commanded A & E to live in a state where they were too uneducated to even reproduce.

Denying A & E the knowledge that would have them follow scriptures that say we are to emulate god in all things, is counter to what scriptures say god wants from us.

Are all those character traits above lies, or are they true and traits of your perfect god?

Moral people want to know.

Regards
DL
 
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