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Reasoning for/against a creator

ovenbakedskittles said:
God is only apparent through the intuitive and observative mind. If you apply logical systems to complex metaphysical phenomena then you will just create more confusion and misunderstanding and will be contradicting the very nature of what we call God or creator which operates under the unpredictable flow of nature and thought and desire.

That’s why Christians eventually started believing that science is the devil. And in some ways it is. It is a systematic manifestation of collective resistance towards the supernatural. Early scientists were influence by supernatural beings that want to destroy humanity and create a gradual decline of human evolution and psychic ability while simultaneously maintaining the illusion that we are actually advancing as a civilization. Scientists hate god and wish that god doesn’t exist and so they have cognitive dissonance towards the psychic and intuitive reality that proves god to be real.

However people just say the word god whenever they experience any type of phenomenon that makes them feel emotionally good or enlightened in some way. It is not usually the true god that permeates the entire multiverse and simultaneously aware of all things in existence.

The true god might not even seem like a god to some people but rather a very complex and confusing existence where you realize that you in your individual primal body actually are god and everything else in the universe that you perceive as separate is simultaneously aware of your existence and is responding on subconscious level to your thoughts and desires and concerns. As well as realizing that you yourself created existence for your own expansion and are just playing it out on a holographic reality that reflects itself back to you.

You can prove god to be real by looking at how often like-minded people, places and things tend to align with eachother and gravitate towards eachother and come into contact with each other through the form of seemingly incredible coincidences and being at the right place at the right time as they say it and then ultimately end up creating some sort of achievement together that benefits the evolution of society. If there was no type of positive momentum in the universe like that then that wouldn’t happen as often if not at all. We would be wandering aimlessly in despair until we just eventually die out. That is what it’s like to have no god. That is why when people are in despair and everything is off balance then we call that the devil. Because it is the lack of that universal momentum that is necessary for our ability to feel good and to have happy fulfilling enjoyable experiences and to be more aware and enlightened and to be more conscious of our decisions.

When you have too much resistance and fear in your life then you restrict this natural energy to come into your life and you suffer greatly and experience a lack of god and the potential positive energy that is inherent within the universe and all other universes. When god withholds his will from a particular universe that universe dies out. That is why the universe accelerates and expands rather than fall back into itself. God wills the universe to reach out further onwards.

When god withholds his will from a human then that human experiences death. It is a choice that god makes when he feels that there is nothing more to learn or to be gained from that particular experience. That is why he also wiped out entire civilizations that were eventually turned into myths and biblical stories. Which again is something that Christians associate with not following gods rules and indulging in activities and behaviors that are deemed to be the work of the devil. Which will happen again in our lifetime if we do not become enlightened.
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Which Devil are you talking about?

This Devil or some other?

Is God Actually the Devil? - What Christians Don't Want You to Know - YouTube

Go you see Yahweh as a moral god?

Regards
DL
 
iridescentblack said:
As I see it, creator is just another word for other. If someone I loved or didn't love was the creator of the known universe, would that change how I feel? Probably not, but arguably so.

If the person or thing that created this universe was fallible, I would submit and say I am sorry and thankful and move on to create my own life under certain conditions, not just as per their request- I would give it a go according to what is. I think that is best.
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Your thinking based on belief, faith or reason and morals?

For instance, from a moral POV, would you say that Yahweh was a good god or an evil one?

Regards
DL
 
prince_igor said:
ah the book.

not as bad as mein kampf

but just as controlling if not more.
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It is a strange world when Christian praise Yahweh's genocides, while condemning what they should see as men doing the same thing.

Christian, to be consistent, must bend the knee to St. Hitler.

What else would one expect from a fascist religion that thinks genocide to be a great remedy.

Regards
DL
 
Yourbaker said:
In your view of existence do you see a creator as making us a lesser being or do you see a host of lesser creators creating us the more complex being?

I think most people have a fundamental view that our creator is more complex and we are the lesser being when the universe around me points the opposite direction.

My view is not fixed to some belief it's just what i see, my very being is entirely supported by a host of micro biology. While my mother hosted the process there was a host of micro biology involved in my very creation. We aren't really very separate from the world we are in, we are like tiny specialized self replicating sensors that can keep the planet safe from perils.

I see humanity as the God lifted up by the life that supports us in hopes we will advance. We must step out of blind ignorance and see this support for what it is and not lop it off like fools.
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Consider.

We reproduce to produce the same or better.

We, so scriptures say, are all children of god.

If any god can only reproduce entities inferior to him, he is not a fit parent. In fact, he is a deadbeat dad according to the myth.

Yahweh could not reproduce a true child.

All he can do is produce a half breed chimera who cannot fulfill prophesy.

Regards
DL
 
prince_igor said:
awe don't be so harsh with out the christians we would have never managed to get the

lions into captivity.
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I admit to harshness and add fairness.

As a Gnostic Christian, I see that as fair thanks to the harshness of the inquisitions that decimated my kind.

They continue to do that verbally in such places but I am good at making Christians look just as satanic as the prick of a homophobic and misogynous god they try to emulate.

Regards
DL
 
ovenbakedskittles said:
That’s why Christians eventually started believing that science is the devil.
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Just wanted to comment on this, because it's not accurate. The Catholic Church pursued scientists because they described a universe that had mechanical functions without a hidden hand, i.e. no God is necessary to make it happen. Things that were described as being governed by God over the centuries were being discredited by scientists as having reductionist explanations. It's not about rational vs. rational, it's about supporting evidence and discrediting evidence.

Science doesn't prove things. It creates theories that become supported or discredited. People need to understand this. We have the theory of evolution, the theory of gravity, etc. Repeated experiments and evidence over a long time have supported these things, but we can't say that they are proven. We just have a lot of evidence pointing towards a supportive theory. Eventually, theories become laws, after a LONG TIME of conclusive evidence.

What you're describing is a clash of epistemologies that goes back to the fall of Rome and the conversion of western Rome into the Byzantine Empire. Rome was scientifically advanced and early Christians were not part of that because they didn't care. They found Rome and its intrigues to be decadent and ungodly. I would say that historical relationship has more to do with why the Church hated scientists. They wanted to maintain control of society and keep people godly so that they could be saved from original sin.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Which Devil are you talking about?

This Devil or some other?

Is God Actually the Devil? - What Christians Don't Want You to Know - YouTube

Go you see Yahweh as a moral god?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
Gnostic Bishop said:
Which Devil are you talking about?

This Devil or some other?

Is God Actually the Devil? - What Christians Don't Want You to Know - YouTube

Go you see Yahweh as a moral god?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
The devil that people usually refer to is in fact the collective resistance of the whole society as opposed to a singular perspective of resistance. Even though somebody’s individual resistance is still obviously a fragment of that greater whole. Things will occur that people deem evil or tragic or immoral and they will say it’s the devil when really it is their own subconscious aspects that are being reflected back to them.

In other words they are the devil. Just like how people say we are god and we are one, well we are also one with the devil because the devil is part of god. So in reality people create their own suffering as well as all the suffering that goes on in the world and instead of acknowledging it as themselves they condemn it and look at it as something evil and something to try to avoid or eradicate.
 
ovenbakedskittles said:
The devil that people usually refer to is in fact the collective resistance of the whole society as opposed to a singular perspective of resistance. Even though somebody’s individual resistance is still obviously a fragment of that greater whole. Things will occur that people deem evil or tragic or immoral and they will say it’s the devil when really it is their own subconscious aspects that are being reflected back to them.

In other words they are the devil. Just like how people say we are god and we are one, well we are also one with the devil because the devil is part of god. So in reality people create their own suffering as well as all the suffering that goes on in the world and instead of acknowledging it as themselves they condemn it and look at it as something evil and something to try to avoid or eradicate.
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Sounds like the Gnostic Gospel of Marie.

I agree that hell is in the mind.

So is heaven to Gnostic Christians and the intelligentsia.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Sigh.

Covid vaccine efficacy.

Need I say more?

Or are you Q Anon minded?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

You're not hearing me.

Take a first year science course in university that runs experiments. When you set out to test a hypothesis, the hypothesis isn't proven or disproven, it's only supported or discredited.

This is the same reason why people think that things called "theories" in science aren't real, because they have been taught by popular media that things are proven or disproven. Neither is true. Science is constantly changing its understanding of things. There are theories that have a lot of support, so much so that the theories are the current working model... but statements of truth are not science's job.
 
Foreigner said:
You're not hearing me.

Take a first year science course in university that runs experiments. When you set out to test a hypothesis, the hypothesis isn't proven or disproven, it's only supported or discredited.

This is the same reason why people think that things called "theories" in science aren't real, because they have been taught by popular media that things are proven or disproven. Neither is true. Science is constantly changing its understanding of things. There are theories that have a lot of support, so much so that the theories are the current working model... but statements of truth are not science's job.
Click to expand...
I will let my doctor know.

The theory of evolution has passed the threshold of theory to law.

We just do not have the total picture. It only lacks the first, what, - 1 second to the 36 power or some such tiny time.

Scientific truths are true whether people like it or not.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
I will let my doctor know.

The theory of evolution has passed the threshold of theory to law.

We just do not have the total picture. It only lacks the first, what, - 1 second to the 36 power or some such tiny time.

Scientific truths are true whether people like it or not.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

Wrong again.

It's still called the theory of evolution because, despite mountains of evidence, the picture is not complete yet. We are still gathering evidence from the incomplete fossil record, among other things.

It's perfectly fine if you yourself are claiming truth based on what you have read in science, but it's 100% wrong to say that science is claiming those truths. This is a major distinction that a lot of logocentric people fail to grasp.

I'm currently doing a science degree, I know what I'm talking about.
 
Foreigner said:
Just wanted to comment on this, because it's not accurate. The Catholic Church pursued scientists because they described a universe that had mechanical functions without a hidden hand, i.e. no God is necessary to make it happen. Things that were described as being governed by God over the centuries were being discredited by scientists as having reductionist explanations. It's not about rational vs. rational, it's about supporting evidence and discrediting evidence.

Science doesn't prove things. It creates theories that become supported or discredited. People need to understand this. We have the theory of evolution, the theory of gravity, etc. Repeated experiments and evidence over a long time have supported these things, but we can't say that they are proven. We just have a lot of evidence pointing towards a supportive theory. Eventually, theories become laws, after a LONG TIME of conclusive evidence.

What you're describing is a clash of epistemologies that goes back to the fall of Rome and the conversion of western Rome into the Byzantine Empire. Rome was scientifically advanced and early Christians were not part of that because they didn't care. They found Rome and its intrigues to be decadent and ungodly. I would say that historical relationship has more to do with why the Church hated scientists. They wanted to maintain control of society and keep people godly so that they could be saved from original sin.
Click to expand...
I feel that my statement is still very accurate that Christians eventually felt that science is the work of the devil. Because that is what deeming something decadent and ungodly ultimately implies. Maybe in the beginning it was more blanketed and vague because they rejected the dominant civilization as a whole but either way Christianity was still in its formative years when Rome ruled the earth. Not even the Bible was written by then so it would make sense for them just to have a general disdain for all of their activities as opposed to the following centuries where they become more solidified into the social fabric and more direct towards specific areas and disciplines and behaviors of society that are still relevant today.

And that’s when the downward spiral of that thinking began and there are many Christians even today that rebuke science regardless of any credible evidence that points to god being obsolete or unnecessary for certain mechanisms of reality and nature. Things that are as fundamental as the world being 6,000years old. And they regard any other explanation as a trick from satan.

But either way my point was that there is a real metaphysical and vibrational reason for why it went down that path because their is a part of their argument that is true on some level. Not that the world is 6000 years old but that scientific advancement (especially how it has evolved from the 19th century onwards) is a gradual cut off from spirituality and higher mental abilities and continues to get worse as we are in the 21st century now and it is now apparent that the excessive utilization of certain technological devices that are designed to make our lives better are actually causing our entire energy system to short circuit out of spiritual alignment and cause major disconnection from our higher selves and higher dimensional planes.

As well as the invention of fast food, microwave foods, prescription pills and medication that can potentially cause suicidal tendencies and plastic surgery and such... the path that science has gone down is responsible for all of that and they have the attitude of making it seem like that is a sign of our advancement and our evolution when it is actually a sign of a calculated strategic way to destroy our civilization and prevent it from accessing higher planes of existence so that we can create a better life for ourselves FOR REAL. It is designed to keep us grounded in the physical and only focusing on surface area stuff so that we make misguided life decisions off of that.

However the bottom line is that we as a collective society manifested this ordeal whether we agree with it or not and it is not a byproduct of some autonomous fictional malevolent antagonist character that is controlling our lives independently but rather a collection of the worlds most deepest fears and anxieties and unconscious energy that is boiling underneath the surface of our conscious awareness. This energy takes form and eventually becomes its own fragment of consciousness which we are connected to through our own individual experience and our own subconscious thoughts that we reject and call evil or wrong. It becomes an entity that can make choices and devise systematic plans to perpetuate the existing tendency to keep us in a state of non awareness and suffering and self destruction.

In other words, Christians are misunderstood about the devil but not wrong in saying that the devil actually exists. They just do not understand that they themselves are part of the collective whole that is creating the entity which they then call the devil. And their subconscious is making all the decisions to create more suffering in the world. Not a separate being from far away. Not something that they have to rebuke and condemn and shun away. Because how can you shun away your own self? That just creates more suffering and it will appear to them that devil is getting stronger.
 
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