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Quercetin reverses morphine tolerance & dependence

allone

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from here; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13129835/

interesting because quercetin is present in ALL fruits and vegetables at certain amounts, BUT its notorious for having very low bioavailability at just 1-2 hours for very high dose.
whats your take on this though? IF its possible to engineer some form of bioavailable quercetin, do you think it has a good potential? It seems to be extremely non toxic even in high doses, but thats based on the fact its not well absorbed. I suppose toxicity can arise from good absorption rate? Here, quote from a guy on reddit about this article; just remember to buy isoquercetin or Alpha-Glycosyl-Isoquercetin because they absorb better. What do you think of those and their potential?
 

sekio

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Isoquercetin is not the same as quercetin. Also, wiki says regarding isoquercetin: This compound has no potential whatsoever, it belongs to the PAINS (Pan-assay interference compounds) categories of chemicals..

whats your take on this though? IF its possible to engineer some form of bioavailable quercetin, do you think it has a good potential?
No. quercetin is not a novel compound, it has been known for many years, there have been many attempts to make it work as a pharmaceutical and none have really succeded. the average diet has between 25 and 50mg of quercetin in it, people have taken doses upwards of 1g, I'm pretty sure there have even been IV trials, but sadly there is no high-quality evidence that quercetin (via supplements or in food) is useful to treat cancer or any disease. (as wiki says)

Just because supplement companies offer it for sale doesn't mean it has any effects at all by the way. The law in the USA is that you can sell pretty much anything as a "dietary supplement". There are morons out there who buy water with dirt in it (review). Or people who eat mystery gunk that oozes out of rocks. As long as it's not obviously poisonous, the FDA will happily allow you to sell such things as supplements, as long as you don't make medical claims.

by the way, aren't you asecin? Did you forget your password or are you just evading bans?
 

allone

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this is interesting summary of quercetin and it indicates fat might be enhancing its absorption and fiber slowing down its excretion; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK299055/

and if someone can explain this taken from the article; Human subjects can absorb significant amounts of quercetin from food or supplements, and elimination is quite slow, with a reported half-life ranging from 11 to 28 h

why do i have the feeling im all alone on this here? i keep finding new and interesting studies and articles and the very few elite keep trying to put me down, dismiss them and insult me....

"Long-term feeding of quercetin in rats leads to accumulation in several organs including the lungs, testes, kidneys, heart, liver, thymus and muscle (de Boer et al. 2005). It was not possible to replicate this finding, however, in pigs, where quercetin was found only in organs involved in its metabolism and excretion, namely the small intestine, kidneys and liver"


well, im a rat by chinese zodiac. pigs are the problem. for such metaphor i risk severe sanctions btw so ill stop right here
 
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allone

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started using quercetin. i had suboxone today so it probably added some problems to it. even if it doesnt really have much biological activity, it might be influencing some enzymes as subs seem 10x stronger than usual. in fact, my head is spinning, literally. thank god for its short half life of only 3 hours. i can barely handle it any longer. in fact, im not even sure if its mostly gone in 3 hours, thats just speculations. shit, i should have not mixed it with buprenorphine, it definitely does something. i took it with fat and fiber, as studies suggest it helps being absorbed better and longer. oh god, such a mistake. my head is spinning and im a bit anxious. big big mistake, i know for a fact polyphenols can be a huge problem now, especially mixed with various drugs or medications jeez and again i want to thank this AWESOME forum for not knowing shit as to warn me. all i learn from you guys its crap, its useless blah blah. i should youtube myself right now and see how im feeling. this aint no fucking placebo!!!
 

PrincessDiz

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started using quercetin. i had suboxone today so it probably added some problems to it. even if it doesnt really have much biological activity, it might be influencing some enzymes as subs seem 10x stronger than usual. in fact, my head is spinning, literally. thank god for its short half life of only 3 hours. i can barely handle it any longer. in fact, im not even sure if its mostly gone in 3 hours, thats just speculations. shit, i should have not mixed it with buprenorphine, it definitely does something. i took it with fat and fiber, as studies suggest it helps being absorbed better and longer. oh god, such a mistake. my head is spinning and im a bit anxious. big big mistake, i know for a fact polyphenols can be a huge problem now, especially mixed with various drugs or medications jeez and again i want to thank this AWESOME forum for not knowing shit as to warn me. all i learn from you guys its crap, its useless blah blah. i should youtube myself right now and see how im feeling. this aint no fucking placebo!!!
Ok, what symptoms are you having? Be exact. I’m not going to lead you in your answers so I’m not going to even give examples but list what your feeling.
 

allone

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its subsiding now. i had few beers as i was getting anxiety. maybe i was overacting? so i usually take suboxone (skip it sometimes) but with such type of harsh drug, anything can influence its metabolism in some nasty way. so yeah, i think quercetin probably interferes with some enzymes for clearing it off my system. and im usually generally pretty sensitive to it so anything can either add or remove its effects in some way, and i can feel something aint working right. beers right now, probably calmed me down for a bit. i think its a good thing quercetin has such short half life and such low absorption, honestly if you ask me. i believe it definitely slows down the metabolism of some serious drugs, thats all.

on second note, it could be the other things in my bottle. check this out; https://www.amazon.com/BlueBonnet-BLB00553-Super-Quercetin/dp/B00CBYM7CW/ref=sr_1_37?crid=2G6GUP2MQIDFV&dchild=1&keywords=quercetin&qid=1593396501&sprefix=quercetin,aps,339&sr=8-37
what do you think, could it be the other things in there? hesperidin might have some interaction, as well as rutin plus there are few other ones. very importantly though, it doesnt say if its the commonly sold form of quercetin dihydrate or which form exactly. makes it more confusing to me
 

PrincessDiz

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its subsiding now. i had few beers as i was getting anxiety. maybe i was overacting? so i usually take suboxone (skip it sometimes) but with such type of harsh drug, anything can influence its metabolism in some nasty way. so yeah, i think quercetin probably interferes with some enzymes for clearing it off my system. and im usually generally pretty sensitive to it so anything can either add or remove its effects in some way, and i can feel something aint working right. beers right now, probably calmed me down for a bit. i think its a good thing quercetin has such short half life and such low absorption, honestly if you ask me. i believe it definitely slows down the metabolism of some serious drugs, thats all.

on second note, it could be the other things in my bottle. check this out; https://www.amazon.com/BlueBonnet-BLB00553-Super-Quercetin/dp/B00CBYM7CW/ref=sr_1_37?crid=2G6GUP2MQIDFV&dchild=1&keywords=quercetin&qid=1593396501&sprefix=quercetin,aps,339&sr=8-37
what do you think, could it be the other things in there? hesperidin might have some interaction, as well as rutin plus there are few other ones. very importantly though, it doesnt say if its the commonly sold form of quercetin dihydrate or which form exactly. makes it more confusing to me
I’d say you were panicking which caused symptoms but hesperidin and rutin can cause side effects for sure just depends if your sensitive to them. Have you had reactions to this supplement before?
 

allone

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no, i never did quercetin by itself before. but i think it might be related to my problems when i used to drink a lot of tea. any camellia sinensis based tea contains high amounts of quercetin and ive noticed when i drink tea with my meds, i always get side effects. it could also be the damn caffeine that i hate so much or other things present in there. but ive noticed this same anxiety weird off putting feeling before on the tea and meds. but because this is not just quercetin alone, im wondering how much affect can hesperidin and rutin play? as far as assessment goes, they seem pretty much incompetent and useless as polyphenols, like quercetin is.
THAT IS BASED on the smart people here, and many other forums I visit, telling me! so far, studies are inconsistent!
Thats how developed our science is in the past 20 years. they cannot figure out to this day does this polyphenol work or not. i say 20 years since i have been investigating those natural compounds. they date all the way back to the 70s. but with new technology and assessment methods, we should have figured it out by the last, not 20, but maybe as little as 5 years. jeez! thats our science today. GARBAGE!!! I expect our AMAZING scientists to continue working on this for the next 20 more years without any conclusive results. MARK MY WORDS! 20 more years of research on simple polyphenols with no definitive results. ITS RIDICULOUS!
 
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allone

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ok think the bromelain in the formula is what might be causing more effect than credit is given; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromelain_(pharmacology)

shit, i need to concentrate and try things singularly, no damn formulas. i just really have no idea what does what at such point. but so far, this formulas is definitely more than placebo
 

Drag2019

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Quercetin Inhibits CYP3A4 I remember that much and I believe CYP1A2 also. Not to mention any drug that is primarily excreted by the kidneys will last longer. Anymore than 1000MG of Quercetin daily can cause kidney damage.

FYI it's not a true senolytic it can have some benefit in that aspect though in theory.

Quercetin has very little research done on it so nobody really can know much of anything about it.

Fun fact It's actually one of the few things doctors are using in hospitals to help treat the symptoms of the COVID-19 patients. Not prevent it but treat it keep in mind it's been shown to be effective for ebola and more too.
 
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allone

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"Anymore than 1000MG of Quercetin daily can cause kidney damage"
how is this possible? i read up to 10 grams and people were fine for months. it has been studied in humans and its safe. not sure if to be scared now or what. im thinking of throwing it away.... i sure hope this isnt serious source you got this from :/
 

Drag2019

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There is a reason they say to take a break or cycel it every 12 Weeks and bromelain and Vitamin C and Flavonoids increases absorption forgot to mention that. Just keep your dose at 1000MG or less and your fine unless you got kidney problems to begin with.
 

dopamimetic

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It's got anti-inflammatory properties; tolerance is partially fueled by inflammatory processes afaik so it makes some sense but need to read the OPs paper in full text to check out the intensity of effect. It's interesting that they say the compound is able to reverse withdrawal precipitated by naloxone because that is intense independent of opioid tolerance, if you have an opioid in your system and take naloxone, you'll experience a hour and half of hell on earth.

Quercetin exerts inflammation and immune modulating activity in several murine models of autoimmunity. In vivo, animal experiments also support an anti-inflammatory effect. Quercetin ameliorates the inflammatory response induced by carrageenan [60] and a high-fat diet [61].
Just that many of these research supplements sound pretty on paper but don't work orally / in humans / etc. Agmatine for example is interesting too but some said here it didn't work for them.
 

allone

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ive taken grams of agmatine. i wasnt sure what to expect tho. obviously its not psychoactive. so how does one know if it does anything at all, honestly. supposed to do this or that, lots of positive research. not sure how to test it. but i keep being drawn to it because it has such positive research. i dunno sometimes i question all those studies. most are in vitro, some on rats. is there any study done on humans, and is it not sponsored? impossible!
 

dopamimetic

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ive taken grams of agmatine. i wasnt sure what to expect tho. obviously its not psychoactive. so how does one know if it does anything at all, honestly. supposed to do this or that, lots of positive research. not sure how to test it. but i keep being drawn to it because it has such positive research. i dunno sometimes i question all those studies. most are in vitro, some on rats. is there any study done on humans, and is it not sponsored? impossible!
I've read that it has either a very poor bioavailability or doesn't make it into the CNS. It's supposedly an own neurotransmitter so no surprise, most of them need to be taken as precursors. I'd say it should definitely have some effect when taken in grams but then again, opioid tolerance can be limited by blocking peripheral NMDA receptors so it could still be active.
 

sekio

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actual study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-1089-8

note that this is an in vitro study i.e. applying compounds directly to cell culture (frog eggs), ignoring the ADME half of the equation
We conducted a methanol extraction (80% methanol/20% water) on pickled capers (Capparis spinosa) rinsed to remove excess salt (Fig. 1c, d). Following evaporation of the methanol to leave an aqueous solution of caper extract, we diluted the extract 1/100 in recording solution and screened for effects on non-injected Xenopus laevis oocytes versus oocytes expressing KCNQ1 or KCNQ2/3, using two-electrode voltage clamp (TEVC) electrophysiology.
they did not actually show that eating capers would produce the same changes. and they are using concentrations of quercertin far outside what is seen in blood (they use 100uM, you'd be lucky to see nanomolar amounts in blood)
 
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