Bupe Plugging/IV Suboxone

[jamesBrown]

Would IV'ing suboxone potentially be more efective(euphoric(low doses)) than plugging???

I know that IV has a 100% BA but im not sure what plugging is...I think around 70%???

Anyway thats not my point.....I take suboxone daily...IV about .5 mg's 2-3 times a day. I take the low doses because of the whole "less is more" deal with suboxone that im assuming anyone who responds to this post is aware of. I DO get euphoria from this IV method, but its minimal( I know that I can't expect much from suboxone)...and I know there are ways of maximizing the euphoria by taking a 2-3 day break for example, and then dose.

But, I decided to try plugging suboxone cause I heard good things about it and figured it would reduce harm by reducing the amount of needles in my veins....anyway, the first time I did it I took about 4 mg's and I got pretty high and warm and euphoric...which suprised me because it couldnt possibly have a higher BA than IV and I have IV'ed 4mg's of sub before and it did nothing.

And since then ive tried plugging about 3 more times, all resulting in quite unremarkable effects.(all three tries were random, not 3 times in a row).

But, I am VERY "backed up" if you know what I mean, from the suboxone(I crap about 1-2 times a week) so im thinking this could be effecting my plugging results.

So, basically I want to hear peoples opinions who have tried both IV and plugging suboxone...and find out which they prefffered and why.

I want this information because if I can stop injecting several times a day, I feel I will be putting my body at less risk...but I will only try plugging every day if others reccomend it or have had good experience with it, in comparison to IV.

Thanks

 

[jamesBrown]

So im guessing nobody has had ANY experience with plugging and IV'ing suboxone???

This sucks.

 

[PetSMiLE]

Never plugged it, but i have heard multiple times that plugging is not as effective when your backed up... either way plugging should not be more effective than IV. I don't take suboxone anymore but when I did I usually IV'ed or snorted it. I think snorting has a pretty good BA, I heard about 70% but who the hell knows?

 

[lithae]

Sorry, no plugging but I have IVed sub for a prolonged period of time. I actually prefer it in the nose.

 

[specneck]

I don't think I ever plugged it either.. only shot it.

I would usually do half the 8mg pill, but most of the time i had been using heroin or oxycontin so as soon as i shot it i would go into rapid withdrawals for about 30 horrible minutes until the buprenorphine finally took over.

It also could depend on how youre rigging this up from the pill. I always made sure I was getting all the bupe out, so maybe youre not getting it all into the rig?

Either way, you would be definitely saving your veins if you end up plugging it.. or eating it like we're supposed to..

 

[jamesBrown]

i definitely am getting all the bupe out....my problem isnt that the suboxone isnt working anymore, its that I wonder if plugging it would be more euphoric somehow...because ive plugged before and felt a nice warm euphoria(i thought maybe because i injected it in my butt, this helped the euphoria somehow???i dunno??)....and I was wondering if anyone has done both and could give me there thoughts on which worked better....but it seems that im the only one who has ever pluged and IV'ed bupe. Oh well

*BTW...were DEFINITELY NOT supposed to eat bupe....never*

 

[specneck]

Eating it would be silly. Just for people who don't wanna have fun

 

[jamesBrown]

Eating it would be silly. Just for people who don't wanna have fun

..I know but you said...."or eating it like were supposed to."

Did you mean sublingual????

Or did you actually mean swallowing it?....cuz swallowing it wastes pretty much all of the drug....and gives you stomche aches

 

[specneck]

there was a little sarcasm involved i guess.

The suboxone I used to have is an 8mg sublingual pill that's meant to be dissolved.. so yeah, same deal as what youre saying.

Hate that naloxone though..

 

[Paulination]

I've read on Wikipedia that saline solution is good at retention when plugging I wonder if I could use my nose spray?

 

[jamesBrown]

I've read on Wikipedia that saline solution is good at retention when plugging I wonder if I could use my nose spray?

Im sure you could use your nose spray...but I also think that using plain old water works equally well(or atleast close eough)......

Im thinking that when I got a high from plugging the suboxone it was because I injected it into my intestines which is around my abdomen and don't opiate related highs/euphoria originate around the abdomen?...like when your high off of oxy or something, you feel a warmness and euphoria that seems to be centered in your gut??...ive read this many places before. So maybe plugging the subs would work better at giving someone a "high" because its getting absorbed right into that spot?...I really dont know what im talking about, just guessing, or thinking outloud....hope someone could shed some light on the subject.

Because since I plugged 4 mg's(my usual dose is about .5 mg's 3 times daily IV)...and got really high.....and yet when I IV 4 mg's I feel practically nothing(even less than when IVing .5 mg's)....so it would make sense to come to the conclusion that plugging into your butt somehow increases the euphoric properties of suboxone.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

So im guessing nobody has had ANY experience with plugging and IV'ing suboxone???

This sucks.

No, I have only used buprenorphine sublingually and IV. I never bothered to snort nor plug it. I've never plugged anything either.

If you enjoyed plugging it then I think you should go for it. I never really enjoyed buprenorphine sublingually to be quite honest. even when I felt really shitty (24 hours after my last IV injection of... < 100 mcg buprenorphine... whatever I was using the last time I went that long without doing it...long ass time ago hahaha) and could take 2mg sublingually........ it was still like, gee I am glad I don't feel good, but I still can't wait to actually IV it again.

I don't understand why this is the case for me either. I have both IV'd, and taken orally, midazolam. Both were *REALLY* enjoyable! If someone gave me midazolam, and expected me to eat it, I wouldn't mind having an experience like that again for sure! But there's almost no reason why I would use buprenorphine sublingually, unless I was really unable to IV it and was starting to feel really crappy without it. Also, I have taken IV'd, and snorted, taken orally, MDA!!! All 3 ROA's were lovely with this drug, it's a drug you can't go wrong with no matter the ROA (as long as you don't smoke it - OBVIOUSLY).

I hope people can connect with me on that one though, I think some drugs are suited to one ROA or the other, and other drugs are good for most/ALL ROA's, and yet some drugs are hit and miss (some people said they like snorting bupe more even though they have IV'd it, some people like plugging it more, some people are happy with sublingual, etc... I think fentanyl is like that, some people do it bucally, some people slap the patch on, others smoke the gel, others shoot it... they all seem to be happy though ).

Any thoughts on my opinions regarding this?

 

[jamesBrown]

You were a bit all over the placr, or maybe im just buzzin from the k-pins but im not sure how to respond to that.....I never sublingiually take suboxone(only ever done it 2 or 3 times) its just a waste...snorting has a higher BA, as well as IV and plugging.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You were a bit all over the placr, or maybe im just buzzin from the k-pins but im not sure how to respond to that.....I never sublingiually take suboxone(only ever done it 2 or 3 times) its just a waste...snorting has a higher BA, as well as IV and plugging.

Try reading it when you're on a stimulant like amphetamine instead.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You know whats funny.... if you take Suboxone any way other than sublingualy, the buprenorphine will not work, and the naloxone will block all your opioid receptiors, causing EXTREME INTENSE WITHDRAWL. So anyone who says they get fucked up by snorting or IV'ing Suboxone is completely full of shit.

Thats the reason Suboxone is a safe drug to take home instead of it being a rehab-only drug, because the naloxone keeps people from abusing it.

Dont believe me? Well first of all, its obvious. Secondly, it says so right here: http://suboxone.com/pdfs/SuboxonePI.pdf

Let me quote from the source: "Naloxone, in the SUBOXONE formulation, had no clinically significant effect when administered by the sublingual route."

Also: "Intravenously administered combination of buprenorphine with naloxone produced the most intense withdrawal effects".

So anyone who says they didn't withdraw, let alone GET HIGH, from IV'ing Suboxone, is either superman, or full of shit.

This is a lie perpetrated by the manufacturers of Suboxone and Subutex (R&B) to gain FDA approval. It worked, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a lie.

Buprenorphine has a higher receptor affinity for the mu-opioid receptor than naloxone does. Naloxone, and most other opiate antagonists, do not help someone who is overdosed on buprenorphine (and likely other CNS depressants).

Q: How come you can IV Suboxone? Isn't naloxone going to put you into withdrawal?
A: No, naloxone will not put you into withdrawal. If you are using heroin or a full agonist, and then use Suboxone, you will go into precipitated withdrawal if you don't wait for regular withdrawal first. If you are otherwise already on buprenorphine, IVing Suboxone will not put you into withdrawal. This is because buprenorphine has greater receptor affinity than naloxone does. There is no functional reason why naloxone is in Suboxone, and for all intensive purposes, Suboxone and Subutex are the same thing - both can be used with any route of administration.

For people who do not understand pharmacology, R&B's lie is convincing. But if you do understand pharmacology, it is very easy to understand how full of shit they are when they made that up.

Receptor Affinity - Clinical Implications

* High affinity for µ receptor means buprenorphine is not easily displaced from µ receptors. Therefore
o If you precipitate withdrawal, it will be hard to reverse
o agonist effects are not reversible with Naloxone
+ Naloxone is effective if given before buprenorphine but not after

www.csam-asam.org/pdf/misc/BupPharm.ppt

 

[adder]

I wonder how most of you get anything from taking 1mg or less. I had to literally rub bupe in powder into my gums beside using some sublingually. 16mg gave me at most a feeling of being alright and little warm inside so the first time I found the appropriate dose I thought I'd start weeping like I were on a little dose of codeine with no tolerance. But that's all.

And as I would like to switch from methadone to bupe (permanently, I've been tapering down for months and I don't really count how many times I'd tried before), it's a definite 'no' because of high dose needed. Besides programs here don't have buprenorphine-only medicine, just Suboxone. I'd take that anyway but even though it's obvious to me, beside lower bioavailability of naloxone s.l. vs. buprenorphine s.l. BTW, that the latter has a much higher binding affinity for the receptors than naloxone, I don't know if that would work for long keeping in mind I've taken a shitload of methadone and couldn't taper down on buprenorphine.

I understand some of it is mental but I have no idea why I need so much buprenorphine to be OK. 15,16-didehydrobuprenorphine didn't change anything either (only dosing).

 

[rocksonboxone]

I prefer the effects from IV but I dont do it much, but am very familiar to the warm fuzzy feeling from plugging it.

I have found though, that the more you plug, the less euphoria you will get each time.
I usually mix the solution with some type of benzo as well, dose it with a tuberculin type (luer lock) syringe w/o the needle.

I normally dose my sub via intranasal solution, but will mess around with plugging and IV sometimes during the weekend or after work.
I will dose either:
4mg intranasal spray
3mg plugged(with a benzo)
2mg IV
and the euphoria(if you can call it that) is most noticeable to me with IV, then plugged, then nasal, but the plugged dose has a different feel to it than IV, they dont really compare much.

I should probably add that I never have any additional constipation problems from plugging the subs, compared to other ROAs...

 

[Znegative]

I.V is a totally different feeling to SL..

can you really wait three days between dosing?

I would be so sick, especially if I I.V it daily.

 

[NiteShadeX]

Sorry guys, you were all right. I just got my first script of Suboxone. I've snorted it and plugged it, and you are right, the Naloxone is inactive.

 

[JASS92]

yeah niteshade is wrong. maybe next time really make sure about something before you post it there buddy!

anyway, I have utilized just about every ROA for both suboxone and subutex. I much prefer IV. I am in the same boat as the Captain, when I say that it does indeed have a mild "rush" property that oddly enough kicks in a few minutes after pinning. It's kind of wierd, because after pinning 2mg or so, my pupils immediately constrict. I can kick back and literally expect it, and within 2 minutes or so a nice mild rush hits me. However, every time I have IVed it, I was in withdrawal, so I don't know that you will experience a mild rush even, if you are not in withdrawal.