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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Make your own HTP...

BilZ0r said:
Just because milk and turkey make you tierd and they contain tryptophan doesn't mean its the tryptophan that makes you tierd.
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This is very true.
 
lol...

Great, I can grasp simple logic now!

No, but what I was meaning is that I don't have much faith in the ability of tryptophan to do much... unless you're suffering from a poor diet.
 
phase_dancer said:
Ever had a warm glass of milk before bed? I get the same drowsiness after 2 x 500mg tryptophan as I do from drinking milk or eating ice cream late at night. While there is certainly some competition for carrier transport during assimilation, I'm quite sure some tryptophan is absorbed.

1 liter of milk from memory contains ~8g of tryptophan.
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I think tryptophan plays a part in the sleepy effect of milk, but I suspect that 'exdorphans' play a larger part. This site contains more info:

www.13.waisays.com/zombie.htm
 
Well, anyone I've seen take > 1g of tryptophan gets sleepy or at least yawns a lot, so some melatonin is definitely being synthesized as a response. In my book that indicates increased (or initiated) serotonin production. All that happens within an hour or 2 as mentioned in TiHKAL under tryptamine.


Tryptophan, the metabolic precursor to tryptamine, is itself a centrally active amino acid. There is a complex, and little appreciated story associated with it as to its human psychopharmacology. Although tryptamine is only active parentally, tryptophan is active orally is directly converted to tryptamine, the two compounds must be considered in concert. What is the action of tryptophan, taken orally? Here are some quotations from the published literature, mostly with the voice of the giver, not the taker, with some copy taken from health-food store fliers of a decade ago.

COMMENTS : (with 2 g, orally) "I administered two grams to 7 normal subjects, and five of them became drowsy after 1-2 hours."

(with 2 g, orally) "The amino acid tryptophan is a safe, non-addictive sleeping aid which works because it is made into serotonin in the brain. Serotonin is the neurotransmitter which initiates sleep. Tryptophan is found in milk and bananas and can sometimes be purchased in pill form. Two grams of tryptophan just before bed is very helpful in getting to sleep. For best results take it on an empty stomach. Although milk contains tryptophan, the pure amino acid is more effective."

(with 5 g, orally) "I took five grams orally several times over a period of days (to study urinary metabolites) and I did not expect any psychological effects. Within an hour, there was a slight dizziness, a feeling of light-headedness and some euphoria which was comparable to whiskey."

(with 6 g, orally) "We gave six grams tryptophan orally to seven subjects. All became listless and yawned frequently, and five of them slept between the periods of testing. Three were unable to remain awake for more than a few minutes. All were easily aroused however, and then felt euphoric and were unusually voluble and overactive. One showed marked social disinhibition in his behavior. Two were clumsy in turning and tandem walking. One had a frontal headache and another was dizzy without vertigo."

(with 10 g, orally) "We gave our sixteen normal subjects 10 g d,l-tryptophan orally. All experienced symptoms such as changes in perception (lightheadedness and dizziness) and changes in mood, mainly euphoria. None of the thirty four chronic alcoholic subjects noted any symptoms at this dosage level."

(with 15 g, orally, with 150 mg iproniazid) "This was a daily treatment given to schizophrenic patients, tryptophan along with an antidepressant which is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Most showed marked changes such as an elevation in mood, an increased involvement with other people in their ward, and an increased extrovertism. A separate study of this combination with the addition of the amino acid l-methionine produced in about half of these patients a toxic or delirioid state."
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T for the Title - Shulgin

I've taken fairly large doses intermittently. Tryptophan for me is great, and the feeling I get from milk is similar but yes, less intense than 1-2 grams of Tryp. and I don't tolerate milk all that well these days. What I noticed was the sleeping patterns from both which for me are identical. I'll usually fall asleep quickly and wake again almost 3.5 hours on the dot. Do the comparison yourself if you like, maybe it's just me.

I've taken a little over 6g of L-tryp / 24 hours and definitely felt some *euphoria*, although I'm not sure I'd describe it quite as that. More just unperturbed and not bothered by anything, like the effects from a low dose of a benzo.
 
mmm, I didn't think of the melatonin link.. Still, you'd think even less melatonin would get produced than serotonin, as there is one more enzymatic step.
 
I've thought this may be the magic bullet. The mitochondrial enzyme tryptophanyl tRNA synthetase 2. This is something you don't get from taking 5-HTP.

Melatonin is synthesised on circadian demand from serotonin. Could it be possible that when binding to Tryp, the synthase exhibits a response indicating tryptophan availability, and therefore natural serotonin turnover which includes metabolism to melatonin.


All just speculation on my part

Cell Mol Neurobiol. 2002 Aug;22(4):417-29.
Evidence for implication of tryptophan hydroxylase in the regulation of melatonin synthesis in ovine pinealocytes in culture.

Privat K, Brisson C, Jouvet A, Chesneau D, Ravault JP, Fevre-Montange M.

INSERM U433, Faculte de Medecine RTH Laennec, Rue Guillaume Paradin, 69372 Lyon 08, France.

1. Tryptophan hydroxylase (TPOH) is the first enzyme in the melatonin synthesis pathway and the rate-limiting enzyme in serotonin synthesis. We established in this study an in vitro model of ovine pinealocytes to investigate the role of TPOH in melatonin production. 2. We demonstrated that TPOH is highly expressed both in vivo and in vitro at the protein and mRNA levels. In vitro pinealocytes show ultrastructural features similar to those previously described in vivo. 3. Moreover, our in vitro model allowed us to study the regulation mechanisms for melatonin synthesis in sheep pinealocytes and to demonstrate that both transcriptional and posttranscriptional mechanisms are involved. 4. In particular, our results suggest that TPOH plays an essential role in the regulation of melatonin synthesis.
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You've lost me. There are two forms tryptophanyl tRNA synthetase, 1 and 2, cytoplasmic and mitochondrial... Now of course, tryptophanyl tRNA synthetase 2 (WARS2) is only synthesised by the mitochonria, but I still don't see why it is the impotant one.
 
:eek: Yes, sorry that was a silly thing to say BilZ0r. Of course you are correct. The proliferation of cytoplasmic WARS would be expected to be much higher, and therefore principly involved in amino acylation catalysis. Do you think some might be diverted via WARS2 if interferon was unavailable? I thought I remembered this being independant of interferon but I can't find any reference.
 
Shit, your fully stretching my molecular biology here, I'm only neuropharmacologist afterall, I had to have a friend of mine who works as a geneticist explain to why you have to do three PCR cycles to get usable product.... BUT... Actaully no, I'm not even going to comment. All I really know is that interferons prevent translation and it has something to do with eIF-2, but hell I can't even remember what the hell eIF-2 is.
 
Definatly, so easy... that's what makes it so good!

I don't know if you can call it work. Post Grad/Research Assistant/Jounior Lecturer
 
errrm what does this thread have to do with making your own HTP? you mean making it in your brain from tryptophan?? i am confused...

is the 5HTP ypu guys use chemically produced, or is it griffonia seed extract? i was thinking that growing gyrphonia and incorporating the seed into your diet would be a healthy natural way to keep your seratonin levels up, i dont trust vitamins so avoid taking them...
 
^^ What's the difference between eating a shitload of seeds and eating the 5-HTP thats extracted from them? I'm not sure what percentage of the seeds is 5-HTP, but I'm guessing you'd have to eat a fair few of them..
 
Maybe DeSpise is talking about the difference between chemically produced 5-HTP or griffonia seed extract... because of the tryptophan - eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome scare.
 
Eh that was due to contamination anyway. They don't make 5-HTP by fermentation so you don't run that problem,
 
Indeed. I'm not sure what caused it, I don't think they know either.
 
I think they put it down to bacterial contamination of one of the batches, though they've got no idea what was in it...
 
i dont like to take ANY vitamins, i dont trust them !! i would rather eat organic gryphonia seed by the bucketload than eat some chemically produced HTP. chemically extracted HTP from said seeds would be better... but still i think the seeds whole would be far more beneficial, as they probably contain other amino acids that are good for ya... just wanted to know if the HTP you guys use was chemically made or extracted from seed?
 
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