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IV Freebase DMT

The Dope Man

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ive got around 100mg of some brow/tan crystal/powder DMT. ive never done DMT before but i want my first time to be IV because ive heard the expriance is twice as long as smoked and easier to remember. ill have a sitter obviously but dont know how to go about making the freebase disolve in water. should i just add viniger or lemon juice to the shot ?
 

MattPsy

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Use citric acid, you can find it at supermarkets, even convenience stores.
Do not use vinegar or worse, lemon juice, as these are not sterile. Or at least, if you do, use a wheel filter to draw up the shot, preferably 0.25uM or smaller pore size.
 

psood0nym

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Also, preservative-free contact lens solution at the convenience store is a decent substitute for bacteriostatic water to mix it up in (basically it's sterile saline).

@MattPsy: Any idea how not sterile distilled white vinegar is likely to be? I've used it to convert DMT and aMT freebase for IM injection a few times. It gets boiled and condensed (distilled) into sealed bottles at a factory, and acetic acid itself will kill a lot of stuff (esp. over the long time period it sits on the store shelf). I assume that the end result is probably pretty harmless, if a little short of perfect. What's the concern with it?
 

sn23

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Erm, brown freebase for injection? Was that extracted or is it synthetic?
Injecting dirty extracted DMT is considered a bad idea and could lead to severe anaphylactic reactions (life threatening). And dirty extracted DMT would be brown/tan.
I can't imagine IVed to last twice as long as smoked.
Please read as much as possible about DMT and safe(r) injection techniques; and definitely use a wheel filter.
 

MattPsy

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I've IV'd extracted DMT, but I cleaned it to white snowflake crystals first. It does last longer than smoked it seems, but I can't really think of any real reason for why this would be actually true apart from perhaps you just get more effective delivery, resulting in a higher dose. But at most it would be 50% more, not 100%.

ps00d: I say that just because the temptation might be to use existing vinegar (a bottle that has since been opened lots, possibly contaminated with foodstuffs) , not buy some specially for the purpose. I imagine new, unopened vinegar is quite sterile indeed :) . Most people, however, will have to go and purchase citric acid.
 

Solipsis

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Also, preservative-free contact lens solution at the convenience store is a decent substitute for bacteriostatic water to mix it up in (basically it's sterile saline).

Hm no boric acid or other things in that lens solution? (Just asking). I thought besides preservatives there is also usually buffering agents in there. But I'm sure you checked that.
I personally use saline in separate sterile ampules that are meant for nasal use by infants. It says 'not for internal use' like 4 times or something but also that it's sterile, indicated by a marking that says

[Sterile [A]

Since I use wheel filters I'm sure it's fine anyway but it seems to me like they have to put 'not for internal use' on the package to get permission to market it for it's purposes.

@MattPsy: Any idea how not sterile distilled white vinegar is likely to be? I've used it to convert DMT and aMT freebase for IM injection a few times. It gets boiled and condensed (distilled) into sealed bottles at a factory, and acetic acid itself will kill a lot of stuff (esp. over the long time period it sits on the store shelf). I assume that the end result is probably pretty harmless, if a little short of perfect. What's the concern with it?

Good point, anyway who says citric acid cannot contain a pile of bacteria on it? Hmm ok, they do not colonize / multiply if there is no water and the very surface is acidic, fair enough. But if that is the argued answer only half of it is true for acetic acid.

I guess muriatic acid would also be fine but it's not confortable using that for IV purposes is it? Part of it just irrational / psychological but also if you mess up the pH calculations for salting your DMT it wouldn't be good. Neither would it be with acetic acid though. Would you ever use bicarb to neutralize excess acid and offering a visual indicator (gas evolution)? I could see how it might result in excess bicarb which may not be particularly good regarding blood gas levels and equilibria. These are only vague ideas. I must admit, I am rather bad at calculating with acidity - for example to determine the exact mass or volume of pure HCl needed to lower the acidity of a solution from A to B. If there is a buffer, I think it becomes undoable to work like that. So... instead I titrate.

Now about dangers IVing different forms of DMT

Hmm, the general warning about injecting extracted DMT is a fair one: a lot of DMT people have still contains traces of plant oils and things like that. Extracting is analogous to diluting the impurity portion, recrystallization though means a superior type of selection. It should be done slowly to avoid trapping impurities in the crystal lattice.

Also, insoluble particulate matter is a serious problem and usually a major difference between DMT from a plant source and synthetic DMT. But still, it should not be forgotten that synthetic DMT can be impure as well and it can also contain particulate matter / suspended matter. With extracts that are made using 'cut corner' methods I would worry the most. If a 0.2 um filter is used, the resulting liquid does not contain any particles larger than that pore size whether it is synthetic or extracted. But, if there is too much crap in your DMT it can clog all the filter pores before you get the solution through. You can pre-filter with lab filters and a vacuum apparatus like a buchner funnel + buchner flask to be able to pull the solution through the filter.

I agree with Matt that if proper recrystallization or slow and low temp freeze precipitation are done on an extract the product should be basically indistinguishable from product of a synthetic source. I wonder how quickly purification of an extract removes 'secondary' alkaloids. The answer will depend on which exact solvents are used and what sort of plant the source is.
The far majority seems to be Mimosa Hostilis derived which seems to be relatively simple in alkaloid make-up and amounts of such secondary active compounds... when compared to some other plant sources. Still, it felt different to me from synthetic DMT when I vaporized my Mimosa extracts which ranged from yellow-tan to white but never considerably oily.
Synthetic DMT felt less spiritual to me and I encountered no machine elves, I had quite few preconceptions about possible differences until I had tried both but obviously placebo-like effects i.e. the power of suggestion can never be ruled out. What makes that less likely though is that I pretty much believed that my white extract was as good as pure DMT and had no 'jungle spice' qualitities, it seemed different from red DMT that I tried as well. In fact the first product I ever got was intensely red, solid not oily yet the crystals were clumpy so not devoid of peculair impurities.

It's not only "useless" plant oils that have a dubious consistency. Compounds such as kokusaginine and yuremamine which I think are saponins seem to prefer being goo-like but I'm not sure how well people have been able to isolate and crystallize such compounds. (Also DMT N-oxide is apparently yellow with a funky not-entirely-solid texture or so I read). As far as I know, the pharmacological 'missing links' still have not been found when it comes to variations of DMT-containing concoctions. There has to be one or more chemicals that are able to modulate properties of plant extracts or brews sometimes making it orally active all by itself without other added MAOIs, that have also been reported to intensify the experience to a whole other level. I can believe that when I think of my experience with psilohuasca.

Anyway my point is that proper or even professional processing and purification seems very important if you are going to IV it. Added to the more obvious reasons for this, things like saponins have to be removed from an extract. Some have been shown to mess with biological systems by complexing with cholesterol and changing cell membrane permeability as well as causing hemolysis (breakdown of red blood cells) after intravenous injection:

http://www.dwc.knaw.nl/DL/publications/PU00016062.pdf

It may be argued that a possible trace amount present in DMT extract would only be enough to waste an insignificant amount of red blood cells but still, you don't want to find out what other kinds of damage such chemicals may do, right? Anyway you don't want any such compounds in it, period. Because it seems to me like all kind of oils can get through micron filters as droplets and at the very least are unwanted in your body because of basic solubility issues. Hmm cell membranes are fatty, maybe it would not be an immediate disaster?

Your reaction might be: my DMT is white so it's okay. Well as for Matt and others who can judge for themselves if they have the equipment and experience to purify an extract well enough, fine if you say so... :) But people who have no background in something like chemistry and have limited improvised DIY-level resources I just want to warn you to be very careful. I thought that my white DMT was pretty high quality yet apparently there are enough active chemicals in it to alter the experience. Reconsider if you got your product from somewhere else and can't be certain of the purity (and have no means to purify yourself), don't just judge by the color after doing a quick STB and direct evaporation instead of freeze precipitation. It's not necessarily as simple as using a wheel filter and you're good to go, instead it's best to have doubts, that is healthy. The truth is: I am not sure either about which dangers of the ones I talked about are the most real.

People who are okay shooting BTH might be taking my post with a grain of salt, not sure. :D

Reactions are welcome.


FYI: I myself store my synthetic DMT for I.M. use and have not used DMT with any ROA for quite a while now. Extracts are meant for smoking though, like I mentioned I prefer lightly-tanned to white extracts for smoking anyway... better than less pure products and better than more pure products as well, interesting enough. The DMT came from a large source of legendary status which apparently does not exist anymore - I keep it with desiccant and everything in the freezer. Hopefully not too much of it is oxidized. I do have laboratory analysis at my disposal to check if there is a reason why it might not be safe. I also have some experience with using wheel filters for I.M.ing. So I think I would be good to go.
 
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