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High potency LSH & penniclavine containing morning glory seeds fresh off the vine


Apr 26, 2004
Check out post #39 on page 2 of this thread for a link to thread with all the pics and studies, and pics of new compounds formed if you like to read.

You must look at the pics from the studies in order to understand it all.
The Core of how this happens completely condensed down to a few pages....

Was the one who discovered LSH stabilizing/saturating recipe in dreams by accident over 20 years ago and wrote it up on the now defunct Lycaeum forum, since then countless people have experimented with LSH enhancing recipes...here is the original dream recipe and how it forms externally in solution and possibly in vivo (in the liver as well) to transform the natural LSH and LSA in the seeds to more potent forms of themselves via acetaldehyde adduction, paper explaining the process below. With this recipe, there is no sedation felt, instead the dreams are energizing/stimulating and potently psychedelic/entheogenic & euphoric.

The accidental recipe discovered is actually based on historical data which came about after reading the book "Road to Eleusis" by Albert Hofmann, discoverer of LSD & R. Gordon Wasson, discoverer of the ancient mushroom rites in South America, and professor Carl A.P. Ruck [also author of the amazing book 'Sacred mushrooms of the goddess, secrets of Eleusis'], scholar of entheogens & ancient Greece.....who all describe the rites held at Eleusis for initiates in ancient Greece for over 2,000 years believed to be propelled by the effects of a powerful psychoactive potion into revelatory mind states with profound spiritual and intellectual ramifications. Plato, Socrates and a host of other philosophers drank the sacred entheogenic brew kept secret by the priest at Eleusis. Men, women and even slaves were allowed initiation.

Description of the stimulating Mystery molecule hypothetically created by this thread's dream recipe externally in solution and possibly in vivo (in the liver as well):

A plausible explanation is that acetaldehyde is adducting on to the NH group of the indole ring further below on the LSA structure, creating something more akin to what ald-52 looks like (see attached pic at bottom) according to the aldehydes adduct paper. How this plays out as far as effects-wise/stimulation/etc. in the human body is unknown.


Page 8441 "Reaction of Indole with Acetaldehyde: A 0.2% solution of indole in equal amounts of water, ethanol, and acetaldehyde formed a product with 60% yield after 1 hour of reaction at ambient temperature. Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect. Decreasing the concentration of acetaldehyde to 0.1% increased the reaction rate and percent yield of product."

See pic of the researchers's indole + acetaldehyde adduct product formed at bottom of this post ---> ie before (page 8439) and after (page 8441).

2016 Polish morning glory study which finds 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail:

LSH is found in amounts in fresh seeds comparable to LSA, a decomposition product of LSH (see attached pics from study).

2016 Polish MG study:
Alkaloids abundance in all 3 HB cultivars is comparable, with most significant difference for LSH (Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide), which varies from 0.54 to 1.71 compound to IS ratio.

As has been demonstrated in this study, LSH is a labile compound, and therefore the variances in its concentration may be due to different age and storage conditions of the seeds rather than difference in plant metabolism.

Indeed, seeds IT-HB2, which express highest concentration of LSH, were bought directly from the producer, whereas seeds IP-HB1 were purchased in retail stores.

We already know that LSH is found in fresh morning glory seeds in amounts nearly equal to LSA, and that LSH is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde, which rearranges to LSA in neutral water, but we know from researchers that it is stable in acidic solutions. LSH or Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide is found in abundance in fresh morning glory seeds. Animal tests all point to LSH being an active psychedelic and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature, far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like. I totally agree.

The in-vivo liver adduction hypothesis of "adduction of acetaldehyde to LSA at the bottom of the indole ring" (like adducts paper saids can happen) to something more akin to looking like ALD-52 bottom indole wise ---> might likely help to explain why there is no sedation felt after solution is drunk, instead entire experience is energizing, as if only LSH effects are felt, along with the stimulating penniclavine, and whatever is created with the leftover LSA to something described above.

In The Hallucinogens by Hoffer and Osmond (1967), ALD-52 is listed as having a lower [approximately 1/5] intravenous toxicity (in rabbits), a lower [approximately 1/8] pyretogenic effect, an equal psychological effect in humans, and double the "antiserotonin" effect as compared with LSD.

So it appears that this "mystery compound" created by the adduction of acetaldehyde to the NH group on the bottom indole of LSA will be stimulating as we know that ALD-52 is double the anti-serotonin properties of LSD, and whenever a molecule is strongly anti-serotonin, it is also strongly stimulating.

Examples of strongly anti-serotonin (block serotonin) and thus highly stimulating molecules:

* our mystery molecule made from adduction of acetaldehyde + LSA at the bottom of indole NH group formed externally in solution (and possibly even in the liver) according to J E Austin & H Fraenkel-Conrat's aldehyde adduction paper. Will look similar to what ALD-52 looks like at the bottom.
* cocaine
* orally active coca-ethylene formed in liver from coca leaf tea bags + wine, each tea bag = 5mg cocaine: Vin Mariani wine with coca leaf was drunk by the Pope and Thomas Edison & leagues of famous people back in the 1800's. It consisted of wine with at least an alcohol content of 15% and added coca leaf (coca leaf tea bags soaked in wine) which in vivo (in the liver) turned into coca-ethylene which was orally potent, the secret of it's strong activity was not even discovered until 1994.
* ibogaine
* mescaline
* psilocybin
* 5-meo-dmt
* bufotenine

69ron & Kash also back up the claim that there are no LSA sedative effects left over or felt, only stimulating/energizing, euphoric and psychedelic qualities. 69ron writes about this for 2 pages (both quoted in this thread) and rightly so, as it is a revelation the first time you experience it. I think the reason some of his conversions worked 100% and others failed completely was because: 1) he did not acidify his solution, and 2) he did not use high acetaldehyde containing wine, but rather mint tea only, and 3) at other times he used rum (not much acetaldehyde that I know of.)
69ron: "Fact: This conversion, when it works, produces an effect that is very different from LSA. Far more like LSD, and stimulating instead of sedating. When it works, the difference is HUGE, not a tiny difference, the experience is TOTALLY DIFFERENT. I know the effects of LSA and LSD very well. He has used them many times. He guarantees that when the reaction works, there is NO NOTICEABLE LSA left at all in the experience. It becomes almost identical to an LSD experience at low doses. Totally different from LSA. "
Kash: "Swim just took a 40 seed portion of LSA extract that was mixed for 15 minutes with peppermint oil yesterday and tripped his face off with a friend. Was very clean feeling and relaxed. Rainbows and vibrant fractal energy danced all over the skies and throughout his surroundings and music sounded great. The head-space was very acid like but different. Was a bit intense but he was able to keep it together lol. Whole trip was about 8 hrs long.

Basically, peppermint oil is dirt cheap from any grocery store and it theoretically converts LSA to the LSH which has a very similar structure to lsd, so mix it it cant hurt your odds. Swim has tried a 20 seed extract without peppermint oil and it seemed uncomfortable and sedating with no visuals, while every time he has added peppermint oil he has gotten visuals. Coincidence? ... maybe, but it is best to play it safe imho."
Polytrip: "A friend of mine is on antidepressants. He once took LSH with his daily dose of nortryptilin. He convinced me that the effects where exactly like LSD. So yesterday i took two of his nortrilen tablets and some LSH obtained from a handfull of morning glory seeds, and some passionflower. I was stunned. In the dark and with closed eyes, the effects where EXACTLY like those of LSD. The only difference was that in the light it was a little less like LSD. LSH is a very odd phenomenon. It's very much like LSD, but it in my experience it takes a little longer before it's fully active. I also experienced an LSH trip on unprocessed seeds once. It seems that LSH is present in high amounts in some seeds. At the same time i believe that sometimes LSA is converted in the body into some more psychedelic compound that could be LSH."
Jamie: "Yeah that LSH can be very visually powerful..the only time I got morning glories to work was when they were fresh..and they blew away LSD for me. I had real visions..I am thinking there was more LSH in them than LSA..all the other times I just got some euphoria and nausea."
Aegle: "LSH comes on far quicker than LSA, within about 30 min as opposed to an hour for me personally. LSH is far more acid like in the visuals and in the total experience."
LSH in the seeds is labile or unstable in neutral water according to the study due to "too aggressive ionization conditions", see pic below, and will re-arrange into LSA if it is not in an acidic solution.

See attached pic below "Effect of LSH decomposition to LSA after the MAE extraction of 10 mg of IT-HB1 seed sample, supported with hypothesized LSH to ergine reorganization mechanism."

** Notice here from others as well how acidifying the extraction water beforehand (like I mentioned above) will stabilize the LSH in the seeds so that it will not decompose or re-arrange back to LSA in neutral water:
Hermes (Lycaeum March 2003) on MG visuals, visions & strength (note: no added peppermint extract or chilled spring water made fresh peppermint tea or sherry): "Depending on seed quality, you should get some weak to decent effects from 8 grams, like mild reality bending, marked enhancement of aesthetic perception, insights, weak open eye visuals, moderate but subtle closed eye visuals (especially with music). I find that more satisfactory results are achieved with more seeds, like 14 grams or more. This much is needed to enter truly psychedelic territory. I wouldn't recommend this much if you haven't tried lower doses with the same seeds and method, however. Make sure that your toes don't go numb or tingly on 8 or so grams first. And don't mix with other vasoconstrictives, like ephedrine or caffeine.

I usually just measure by Burpee bags. These are 1.8 grams each. I have used anything ranging from 3 to 12 of these. Strangely, the 12 bag trip was relatively weak. They must have been some old seeds. My strongest experience ever with MG seeds was with the Martha Stewart brand from K-mart.

I had strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are about 32-36 seeds to a gram. The Martha Stewarts are more expensive than the Burpees. They are like $1.30 a bag or something close to that for a 1.2 gram bag. The Burpees are something like $0.88 a bag and each bag has 1.8 grams. That's $2.05 a gram for Martha Stewart seeds and $0.92 a gram for Burpee seeds. It seems to be a trade off.

My favorite way to go about this is to first wash the whole seeds in a bowl with a little water and a very small amount of liquid handsoap. I slosh them around and rub them a bit in the soapy water (not too long--could reduce potency). I then rinse them good with cold water in one of those screen vegetable strainers. This is intended to wash off any fungicide or other adulterants. I then dry the seeds well with paper towels.

Then I grind the seeds in coffee grinder to a fairly fine consistency, but not to the point of being powder. The hulls should remain somewhat course, while the lighter colored inner stuff is pretty much powder. I then put this stuff into one or several empty tea bags. Don't overfill one. If the bags are small, use several. Next, put the bag(s) into a full glass of cold distilled water (w/squirt of lemon juice to acidify water beforehand) and use a spoon to press on them and make sure they are well-saturated with water. Let sit for 10 minutes in a cool dark place.

Use spoon to squeeze and agitate the bag against side of glass some more to get more stuff out. Don't press too hard or you will break the bag and get seed mush into the water, which is undesirable. Leave for 10 more minutes. Squeeze again. Leave for 10 minutes. Squeeze.

Remove bags after squeezing most of the water from them into the glass. You can suck on the bags if you want to get more stuff. I don't generally do this. Discard bags. Drink water. Get yourself into the mood with some good music and wait for effects. You might want to take a little ginger if you are worried about nausea. Usually I don't get any, but sometimes there is a little, probably partly from pre-trip anticipation anxiety.

When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before.

I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything. I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing.

I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I have imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists!

I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull. It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have every known. And all of this with nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only 500 seeds.

It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!
Nogal: "Yes I know of someone who tried the CWE method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffe grinder in place of a stone metate (I think thats what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form (again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin). The only negative reaction experienced was a cramping and spasms of the inner thigh muscles which is mentioned in another post in the botanical forum."
A few normal trip reports with MG seeds high in natural LSH, note following reports were "normal" and were written before the accidental discovery of recipe above, ie no added acidifiers to water, nor 1 shot sherry, nor mint tea or 5 peppermint extract drops. But they are given to show the dream value of morning glory seeds with good amounts of natural LSH:

Piper methysticum: "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing."

Next, I ordered some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. With eight seeds, the visuals were again, amazing. With twelve seeds, I had little visual effect at all. ..At least nothing I could make sense out of. With six seeds, again, no visuals. This I found to be strange, and I also noticed that I enjoyed the Morning Glory seeds more despite the part of eating a handful of seeds. However, through all of this, Morning Glory has become one of my favorite psychedelics of all.
bluedolphin: "I get some impressive visuals off around 200 seeds. I've even had kaleidescopic vision from ~225 seeds. Granted I tend to get more visuals than most people, but at your dose I'm not surprised at all that you had some strong visuals."
DJAngrE: "oh hell yeah, i've had major kaleidoscopic vision (but only when i close my eyes) i've actually had the strongest OEVs of any drug i've tried including mushrooms... LSA is the best music drug in my opinion, next time maybe take a couple hits of weed (with a much smaller dose of seeds of course) i promise it'll be just as sweet."
human: "I tried out LSAs for the first time recently and I found them to be the most comfortable substance I've ever been on. While I don't have that much experience (mdma, mushrooms, 2C-I), I enjoyed the somtic aspects of LSA much more than the other substances I've tried. It seems you also found them quite comfortable. And yes, I believe LSA and MDMA are contraindicated. LSAs constrict blood vessels, and mdma raises blood pressure/heartrate. Bad combo. I also agree with the suggestion to smoke a bit of cannabis to ease the nausea."
PimpTurk: "LSA is a really great drug..with roughly 200 heavenly blue seeds i saw ganesha morphing on my friends wall...not to mention all the mind bending breathing every object was doing.....and yes the comeup is EXTREMELY euphoric , it ranks up their will rolling in my opinion.....im thinking about trying them again VERY soon."
MrNice: "The pesticides wont kill you, they will make you puke a lot though. I'm pretty lucky with MG seeds, my highest dose was 500 and even then i didnt get any nausea or leg cramps. I normally stick to around 250, i'll get a nice 7hr trip from them...the best way i can describe how i feel on them is serene. Everything feels so good, colours are brighter, music sounds richer, plus their cheap & easy to get hold of.

Usually have an LSA trip about once a week. One of the best effects is that you dont seem to get a comedown with them, its more of an afterglow. Your not tripping but you feel really relaxed and content.
Chemist Peter Webster's morning glory extract experience, chapter 3 of "Center of the Universe": "The extract of Ipomoea violacea that we had prepared radiated power, just sitting there in its flask. A light amber, odorless syrup which, in the darkened laboratory fluoresced brilliantly blue under ultraviolet light, it was an extreme contrast with the series of messy, difficult to purify, dark-colored and discouraging volumes of intermediate sludge we had treated, and brought to mind the Curies and their arduous separation of a few tiny crystals of glowing radium from a mountain of pitchblende.

The difficulties had, however, taught us much about ways in which we would modify our processes for future work. As for the extract, the following day would see the first test of its activity, with myself as the guinea-pig. I was by this time hardly a novice in self-administration of my own preparations or in the estimation of what effects they might have.

I was, in fact, quite adept at taking most any supposed substance of enlightenment and avoiding nasty complications if the brew turned out to be bogus. On many occasions in New York, more than a little caution had been required to avoid not only the classic "rip-off" but also the inevitable dangers that Prohibition naturally produced. Once, a purported sample of magic mushroom I was offered proved to be only a few wasted store-bought champignons laced with powdered datura seeds. Although hallucinogenic, the experience of datura was not the least insightful, nor did it leave me with an experience which hinted at dimensions normally closed to everyday perception. I spent a few unpleasant hours also with Owsley's famous STP, which in the original dose was far too potent for human consumption. Fortunately I took only a quarter-dose, there having been evidence of difficult times for others with this synthetic drug.

The morning-glory extract provided not a nasty surprise, but a powerful surprise none the less. It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered. Perhaps the methods of our extraction had yielded a product more representative of the shaman's recipe than the preparations obtained by other investigators, who reported only modest psychedelic effects. The experience of that day was hardly modest, from the beginning moments it certainly did not fail to inspire reverence and humility, no matter what the direction to which I managed to guide it.

The colors and geometric patterns, the rippling waves so often seen in watching clouds in the sky, the slowing of time and other typical effects so frequently described in the literature had some time ago become only minor and unattended aspects of psychedelic experience for me. Certainly, I still noticed these effects, if I took the trouble to pay attention to them. But the psychedelic experience had become for me far more an arena for the Herculean task of attempting to achieve the truly original perspective for viewing the fundamental questions that man has posed since the beginning of time. It was the task of freeing oneself completely from preconceptions, from habits of thinking that affected the outcome of seeking in unknown and unconscious ways. And of course, it was paradoxical, if not impossible to erase these filters of comprehension completely. To a very significant extent, comprehension consisted of these filters. Nevertheless, the psychedelic experience seemed to go quite a good distance in providing this ability, if one were ready to use it. Particularly the experience of that day."
Nogal said: "HBWR is more body oriented while morning glory seeds have effects more similar to LSD."
I agree, and recommend only dreams with MG seeds and not HBWR. HBWR also has no history of Shamanic use, while MG has centuries of documented Shamanic use.
The original recipe I used in dreams over 20 years ago calls for 500ml of DL tartaric acidified to ph=4 chilled spring water + 1 shot (30ml or 1oz) of cold sherry (contains avg of 10mg acetaldehyde) + chilled Bigelow fresh from foil sealed "mint medley" combination spearmint/peppermint tea (contains avg 2-5mg acetaldehyde/isovaleraldehyde & their corresponding acids) from sealed foil packet and 5 peppermint extract drops added.

DL tartaric acid (auction, etc.) is added only 10mg at a time to 17oz (size of one of those plastic coke bottles) chilled spring water until ph=4 using a 1 or 10mg accurate scale to measure the powder, a $7 ebay digital ph meter reads the ph level precisely, you don't want to overdo as it can seriously upset the ph balance of the body, and you will feel really bad. I got my jar of DL tartaric acid over 20 years at auction, and it is still good to this day.

Also don't forget Krystle Cole's "ergot wine" experience (several pages long) in this thread, reporting that she saw constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head.
Dream Experiment #1 with 8g (250 seeds):

Went to the mall and experienced a powerful euphoric psychedelic journey for hours long ago, will never forget. I sat on a seat and watched women come and go from the changing room in the clothes section as they tried on different clothes watching themself in the mirror outside next to me while I waited on my wife to select her clothes as well. I was blown away with euphoria and an enjoyable psychedelic state. Even the music over the intercom sounded heavenly. The solution I drank on the way to the mall. I continued to walk in the rest of the mall for hours in a state of tranquility, profound happiness & peace.

Dream Experiment #2 with 13g (400 seeds):

* psychedelic effects magnified several fold

* euphoria was very powerful

* energizing, not sedating.

* closed eye geometrics were finally visible and spun, I had not ever seen these before with MG. I distinctly saw rotating colored vectors that spun 360 degrees as they moved from left to right across the visual plane.

* I felt like I was an extraterrestrial being, immersing myself in new sensory phenomena for the first time. The morning glory LSH saturated & stabilized recipe solution heightened my hearing sense but sounds were also quite different than normal, producing audio hallucinations.

Also don't forget Krystle Cole's "ergot wine" experience from the book "Lysergic" reporting that she saw constantly rotating holographic Sanskrit or Arabic & Zodiac symbols, floating in a circle around Todd's head

Material list:

1. home-grown cactus (main-stay some of the year)

2. miracle grow powder (add to 1 gallon watering can with spout) and feed once a month during growing season for monstrous Heavenly blue MG plants & flowers, very potent seeds!

3. Sherry wine (contains avg of 10mg natural acetaldehyde per 1oz or 30ml). One shot is used in recipe.

4. Peppermint extract, 5 drops used in recipe contain on average approximately 2mg water soluble acetaldehyde/isovaleraldehyde and their corresponding acids.

5. Combination fresh mint/peppermint tea which can be used along with peppermint extract drops, or substituted in place of it in the recipe. Recommend Bigelow mint medley tea which comes individually wrapped in foil pouches for peak flavor, freshness, and aroma.

6. Red light LED bulb, replace your lamp with it, and work only under a red light to prevent destruction of MG seed powder during & once hammered and ground in coffee grinder.

7. DL Tartaric acid, acidify 17oz (500ml) fridge cold spring water to ph=4 with a tiny dash smidgen of it till water reaches ph=4, LSH is very stable in only acidic environments, but decomposes in neutral water, very fast in alkaline water, or when heated. 16.9oz is the size of one of those normal sized plastic coke bottles. Digital $7 ph meter off ebay also needed.

8. 2 jars with clean automotive funnel which each have a loosely stuffed cotton ball in them, use to filter Ayahuasca, cactus, or MG seed solution....get's all the debris out, but leaves only the water soluble actives in solution, have used for decades, beats the heck out of coffee filters which will not anything to pass thru. Your stomach and intestines will thank you for getting rid of the nauseating particles which the cotton ball blocks & collects...no nausea! I have never thrown up in over 65 times using this process with Ayahuasca, cactus, or MG seeds, and always zero nausea to the stomach. The cotton ball & funnel is the best invention of the century, along with the toothbrush.

9. Coffee grinder used after seeds are hammered to a powder inbetween paper plate with hammer.

10. Paper plate with edges folded on ends to prevent loss of seed powder as seeds are being hammered.

11. cotton swab and blacklight in background, cotton swab is dipped into fridge cold seed solution after filtering, then is swabbed onto back of paper plate, plate is taken to another room with blacklight on to observe the beautiful blue glow of lysergic acid amides.

12. Seeds from freezer that had been frozen to preserve super high potency fresh off the vine fall picked pod MG heavenly blue seeds. Other option is to dream fresh heavenly blue MG seeds from growers on-line with over 350 5-star reviews.

If you do ever dream with the seeds to remember that LSH (lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) decomposes in neutral water solutions, and quickly in alkaline solutions, and also if heated, but it is quite stable in acidic environments (just like the solution recipe I give). Traditionally (e.g. as reported from Wasson) they only soaked the mushed seeds briefly in water, then strained and immediately drank. Recall that even Hermes (12g extremely visual MG trip report in same thread) would also acidify his distilled cold extraction water with a squirt of lemon juice beforehand.

The amount of LSH in the seeds was found in levels comparable to LSA (a decomposition product of LSH) within the seeds, which is astonishing. The new study has increased our current understanding of the seeds. The researchers noted high relative abundance of penniclavine as an interesting observation as well.

Penniclavine has excitory effects on the central nervous system [Yui & Takeo, 1958] as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals & caused dilation of pupils (Glasser, 1961). LSH is very similar to LAE-32 which is described in human experiments in TIHKAL, to be LSD like and stimulating at 1.5mg (1500ug). Albert Hofmann later discovered LSH in MG seeds around 1967 and put colored drawings of it in his book "LSD, my problem child." and apparently told Owsley that it was very "LSD-like".

In the seed embryo:

LSA C16H17N3O = 267 g/mol + acetaldehyde C2H4O = 44 g/mol = LSH C18H21N3O2 = 311 g/mol.

LSD C20H25N3O = 323 g/mol

Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon":
Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms.
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Apr 26, 2004
Concluding notes on the mint used in recipe:

Recall that it is believed by many that a CWE (cold water extract) of ergot was used in the sacred brew the initiates drank at Eleusis in ancient Greece for over 2000 years straight. We know from the writings that the brew also had mint added to it (which would theoretically contribute to changing the brew to one with more concentrated LSH). The water soluble aldehydes: acetaldehyde & isovaleraldehyde, are not only found in peppermint but mint as well.

CWE of ergot contains similar alkaloids as found in a CWE of morning glory, called Ololuiqui (Rivea corymbosa) by the Atecs.

2) We know from Plato's writings that the priest administering the sacred brew were seen with purple stains on their robes (see the book "The Road to Eleusis" by Wasson, Hofmann & Ruck), which likely came from sclerotia of the ergot fungus. When a CWE (cold water extract of ergot) is performed, the toxic non-water soluble ergopeptines are left behind and only the good water soluble psychedelic alkaloids dissolve into the water...there was plenty of ergot growing in ancient Greece at the time, and would have been more than enough to serve the hundreds of people who made the pilgrimage to Eleusis to drink the sacred brew.

Another option was Claviceps paspali infected wild grass Paspalum distichum L, which has been known to grow in the famous Rarian plain adjacent to Eleusis. It contains identical alkaloids as found in the Mexican morning-glory seeds. We also find from the writings that several people had snuck the brew out of Eleusis and consumed it at parties.

The Eleusinian Mysteries were initiations held every year for the cult of Demeter and Persephone based at the Panhellenic Sanctuary of Eleusis in ancient Greece. They are the "most famous of the secret religious rites of ancient Greece". Persephone's rebirth is symbolic of the rebirth of all plant life and the symbol of eternity of life that flows from the generations that spring from each other. Numerous scholars have proposed that the power of the Eleusinian Mysteries came from the kykeon's functioning as an entheogen, or psychedelic agent.

The initiates, sensitized by their fast and prepared by preceding ceremonies, are believed to have been propelled by the effects of a powerful psychoactive potion into revelatory mind states with profound spiritual and intellectual ramifications. Men, women and even slaves were allowed initiation. Plato, "the ultimate design of the Mysteries...was to lead us back to the principles from which we descended...a perfect enjoyment of intellectual [spiritual] good."

The main constituents of the Mexican morning-glory seeds are also the main alkaloids in ergot growing on the wild grass Paspalum distichum L. This grass grows commonly all around the Mediterranean basin (where the Eleusian rites were held) and is often infected with Claviceps paspali. It contains only alkaloids that are hallucinogenic and which could even have been used directly in powder form. The famous Rarian plain was adjacent to Eleusis.

Krystle Cole:"Isn't Ergot what Socrates used to take at Eleusis?" I thought it was kind of cool to be taking something that the founders of our democracy used to take, but that our current democracy has made illegal.

"Yes, except for he did a water infusion of the ergot, instead of alcohol."

Dream procedure:

1) 50-100 seeds = light, 100-250 seeds medium, 250-400 seeds strong, 400+ seeds heavy.

2) Room was set up with a red light lamp in place of regular light to prevent destruction of MG alkaloids to light.

3) 250g fresh dry seeds right off the vine in the fall (I grow a dozen plants every year for their visual aesthetics & flowers) were first crushed with a hammer in between a paper plate with the edges of the paper plate folded in to prevent loss of crushed seeds.

4) The crushed seed powder from the plate was emptied into a coffee grinder and ground into even tiner particles, not quite a dust.

5) A 1-liter mason jar was filled with 500ml (half-way) fridge cold spring water acidified slightly to ph=4 with a tiny smidgen dash of DL-tartaric acid powder. (do not use tap water as the chlorine can destroy the fragile alkaloids). Spring made Chilled Bigelow Mint Medley tea (comes in a sealed foil packet for freshness, important!) & 5 drops (.25ml) of peppermint extract (using a pipette) & 1 shot of sherry wine (contains on average 11mg acetaldehyde) was then added to the solution as well & jar contents were stirred. Do not overdo the drops of peppermint extract or solution will taste like mouthwash.

6) The crushed seed powder was then added to the 1-liter jar and shook a bit, let sit in fridge for 20 minutes with occasional shaking.

7) The solution was then filtered thru a cotton ball stuffed in a funnel, and put back into fridge to sit for several hours, with shaking once per hour.

8] Cotton end of an ear cleaner was dipped into the fridge solution and then swabbed onto the back of a paper plate--plate was taken to another room with a blacklight to observe the beautiful blue glow of lysergic acid amides.

9) The solution was then drunk in dreams.

Details of cotton ball stuffed in a funnel filtering:

You should love the cotton ball filtering, it works for filtering out the debris from Ayahuasca, Cactus, or Morning glory seeds, when and if the cotton clogs, you simply replace it with another and continue filtering, may take 2, 3 or more cotton ball chang-ings, but your entheogenic brew will come out super clean and active, your stomach and intestines will thank you--no nausea! Yes, coffee filters are useless. Have dreamed this method of filtering for decades--get's all the nauseating particles out but leaves the water soluble actives in solution. Beats the heck out of useless coffee filters which will not allow anything to flow.

To use: just put one cotton ball in a large clean funnel to make it sediment free which reduces or eliminates nausea to the intestines...have two of these funnels with a cotton ball stuffed in them sitting in a large tall jar sitting side by side so that you can pour off liquid from funnel #1 into adjacent "funnel in a jar #2" to continue filtering once the 1st jar's cotton clogs up or slows down the flow too much, continue pouring off the funnel's contents back and forth changing out the cotton when or if it clogs.

When you are done with your cotton ball in a funnel filtering, take all your spent cotton and combine it in your hand into a single wad, make a fist and wring out any leftover liquid into a final funnel in a jar with cotton ball stuffed in it, to get every last bit of particle free liquid. You will want to use the larger size black funnels that you can find in your nearest automotive store, buy several of them.

The end. Be safe in dreams, the CWE extraction is the method the Shaman's and indigenous people used in South America, it is harm reduction (no eating of seeds).

Courtesy, Ultravioletshock.
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Apr 26, 2004
Very good question thegreenhand. My experiences are with fresh off the vine Fall harvested MG seeds, tips given above on how I grew them and fertilized them once a month only with a gallon can of water mixed with tablespoon of Miracle Grow.
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May 11, 2011
I am worried that the level of acetaldehyde in peppermint oil is too low to form an adduct at the levels reported in this thread. Formation of a relevant amount of lsh would occur best with an excess of acetaldehyde molecules compared to lsa molecules driving the equilibrium to the lsh product.

The wikipedia page for peppermint oil does not include acetaldehyde as a constituent.

I have looked through some old papers that are cited when acetaldehyde is mentioned as a sparse component, but the percentage is not mentioned including the 1977 paper "turpentine-induced hypersensitivity to peppermint oil" which does not indicate any quantity of acetaldehyde, but cites the book pharmacognosy by Taylor 1976.

I cannot access the relevant pages to answer this question, but there is a copy available at a local library.

Do any of you have any real measurements for acetaldehyde levels in mint oil?

A dose of 200 morning glory seeds could have 2 mg lsa in total (assuming 0.01 mg lsa per seed, which falls between the high and low reported ranges)

Also for the lsh part of the equation, the molar mass of lsh is 311.378 g/mol
Molar mass of lsa 267.326 g/mol
Molar mass of acetaldehyde 44.05 g/mol

So for every 1 mg of lsa one would need ~ .166 mg of acetaldehyde to have a 1:1 molar ratio. For the lsh production to be favored you would want an abundance of acetaldehyde to consume most of the lsa. Lets call the ratio 1 mg lsa to 2 mg acetaldehyde for ease of computing this is a 1:12 molar ratio.

1 drop can be idealized to 50 microliters. Using 15 drops of mint oil would give 750 microliters in total of mint oil.

Peppermint oil from sigma Aldrich has a density of .898 g/ml. I will round to .9 g/ml.

750ul*.9g/ml = 675 ug

4/675 * 100 =.592%
To have 4 mg of acetaldehyde in this peppermint oil you would need a concentration of above 0.592%

The paper "a review of peppermint oil" by Shrivastava alankar 2009 does not list acetaldehyde as a component of peppermint oil. I have also looked at multiple commercial analysis of peppermint oil that do not show any acetaldehyde.

After all of this research I am not convinced that peppermint oil has enough acetaldehyde to induce significant lsh formation. I am quite sure peppermint tea does not have enough acetaldehyde as dried peppermint has 0.3-0.4% essential oil, and that will have even less acetaldehyde as drying the mint would induce evaporation (acetaldehyde boils at about 20 C, which is below room temperature).


Apr 26, 2004
Skorpio, thanks for your analysis & expertise! Well said & analyzed, enjoyed reading.

This needs to be re-stated in order not to confuse people:

Rather than thinking that the acetaldehyde in peppermint oil is actually reacting with LSA to form LSH (I don't think it is possible for an adduct to form with LSA and acetaldehyde to form LSH external from the seed embryo making it) it makes more sense to consider the situation in terms of chemical equilibrium, which is the point of the paper: by adding a bit of acetaldehyde to the system, the rate of hydrolysis decomposition of LSH back to LSA plus acetaldehyde is greatly reduced. Perhaps this then allows the LSH to survive long enough to do its job effectively.
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May 11, 2011
That makes some more sense, but even to hold an equilibrium (divide the final number I got by like 4), I am not sure if mint oil has enough acetaldehyde.

I went down a deep rabbit hole with regards to looking for any sources that had quantified acetaldehyde any acetaldehyde in mint oil (including industry standards for perfume producers, which had very detailed chemical analyses including compounds at much lower levels than what acetaldehyde needs to be to have an effect). It looks like I am going to have to check out that copy of Pharmacognosy, where many citations lead back to. If that does not include a quantifiable number i would not trust mint oil.

Sherry and other oxidized wines like maderia contain a good amount of acetaldehyde, like 130ish mg per liter based on the first source i was looking into for alcoholic beverages (acetaldehyde is likely in there due to oxidation of ethanol). If one were to make an extract with 30-100 ml of sherry involved then the acetaldehyde levels would correspond to equilibrium conditions or even an excess.


Mar 24, 2007
How practical would it be for rc manufacturers to make synthetic LSH?


Apr 26, 2004
Don't have an answer for you donvliet, good question.
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Jul 3, 2009
Chemistry does not work like this.

For one, peppermint oil is not a good source of acetaldehyde. Unsurprisingly, the primary constituents of peppermint extract are compounds like menthol, menthone, menthofuran and menthyl acetate, with acetaldehyde present at best in trace amounts.

Also, LSA is not a particularly reactive substance. Atleast the amide part, that is. This is not a Leuckart reaction where you just bash the amide and the carbonyl together at 180 degrees celsius.

"Thermodynamically favorable" is all well and good, but many reactions are very much limited by kinetics, i.e. whether they can overcome the issue of high activation energies.

And even with reactions that are not just thermodynamically favorable but also possible from a kinetic standpoint, there is a reason (or rather many reasons) that chemists use pure reagents instead of mom's collection of aromatherapy extracts and sherry from the liquor store.

Basically, if you want something like this done at room temperature with less-than-pure reagents, you need to use enzymes (which are basically extremely effective custom nano-catalysts that can massively decrease the activation energy of a reaction).


Apr 26, 2004
Not talking about reacting the amide part of LSA with anything but rather about creating an equilibrium excess of acetaldehyde in solution to drive the stability of the labile LSH to stabilize and prevent hydrolysis to LSA plus acetaldehyde. Consider the situation in terms of chemical equilibrium, which is the point of the paper: by adding a bit of acetaldehyde to the system, the rate of hydrolysis decomposition of LSH back to LSA plus acetaldehyde is greatly reduced. Perhaps this then allows the LSH to survive long enough to do its job effectively.
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Apr 26, 2004
Veering slightly off topic and wildly away from scientific- I have to wonder what the effect of fermentation would be on MG seeds. As in adding them to a fermenting jug of wine or beer - or mead for that matter. Yeast does weird and wonderful things with plant materials.
Very interesting thoughts Norman! That exact same real-world claim was made my LSD chemist Skinner below who according to Krystle Cole in an interview on-line had made over a half dozen jugs of "ergot wine" and stored them in the underground silo they lived in.

Norman said in this paper:
I’ve used cold water, wine, and 12% ethanol solutions on HBWR and wine wins every time for potency and reduced body load.
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Apr 17, 2015
Got some vines growing right now, this will be my first year ever trying fresh ones. I’ve plentt experience with dried ones but always felt I was missing the mark. I’ll report back!



Jan 16, 2009
^ I missed my timing and could not grow this year. But one of the most rewarding trips I had was when I did grow my own and picked them fresh. So in that respect LSH fascinates me. It is a waste to buy seeds from a vendor. Your best bet on commercial seeds is checking in January (North America) at the supermarkets seed racks. Burpee releases them early and there is no evidence of poison on them that I know of. I don't even believe they were poisoned for maybe a year or so in the 70's. I could be wrong though about confirming "poisoned" seeds but felt it was a rumor or only done way back years ago but I researched the hell out of that and even emailed seed companies. But fresh seeds even in packets work well. They are usually stamped with the date they were grown. Again as long as it is within 6 months they will work.

I think this LSH research will lead to some great discoveries. It probably has to do with why fresh seeds work well as stated. I mean, even when good acid was abundant sometimes I would go for seeds instead of that or mushrooms due to the interesting effect. Knowledge about stopping the vasoconstriction, cramps and other issues are needed. I have to say though fresh seeds never did any of that. So there is more to learn.