Opioids does anyone else think opiates have other health benefits besides just pain relief

[Ganjcat]

Im not anti drug, im not gonna tell others that heroin is good, it is not, it heats up your brain and makes it into a slury. You are just blind, hard drugs made you belive that they are good

You don't have to be apologetic to him idk why he's going on like that this is a forum if the guy don't like us having our own opinions, just like he has his, then he should either log off or ignore us if for some reason you can't accept what we are trying to tell him

This is a forum where we are supposed to have a grown up discussion I used to have so much respect for this whole site and don't get me wrong I still do for a lot of the members but it's standards and just everything else have changed so much over the years, then again maybe it's always been like this but because I used to be a lurker before I joined I didn't notice for example certain people can insult and say disgusting things to who they want and the mods won't do Jack shit because they're buddies they will just say your as bad as eachother or ban you when it was your thread the griefer started insulting you on and detailing the thread! Welcome to blue light my friend no disrespect meant to anyone, well most but it's true and everyone knows it

 

[Ganjcat]

Dude, do you think I'm a young child?
I've been using drugs for over 20 years & counting.

I've also spent a vast amount of time researching these drugs and paying attention to my own body. Yeah heroin got me sooooo "shitfaced" that I was able to keep up with doing 50 different things at my job & was able to clean my entire house & actually enjoy it.


It's not falling on deaf ears, I've heard what BS you're spreading & it's false generalizations and regurgitated mainstream stigmatized talking points.
You know zero about me as a person, how long I've used, how I use or how using affects me. And it appears you know zero about opiates, other than whatever shitty experience you had.

Cannabis use to give me anxiety and panic attacks as a teenager and young adult. But I don't go around saying everyone's gonna have the same experience as me, therefore it should stay illegal. Do you actually have any counter arguments or are you just here to push a narrative or have a motive? Cause really, you're the one who's been deaf this entire conversation.




Anyone who comes in here and generalizes everyone's experience like their own and then spouts anti-drug rhetoric & offers no counter arguments & only insults, is no wise man at all. And neither are you really, if you find his behavior "wise". haha

You know mostly I'm just disappointed in how you have chosen to respond, you seemed like a smart and steady person who would recognise when someone is just giving them some advice you say your twice my age but you don't sound it there at all and your age means nothing my dad still smoked this shit in his late fifthties he had been smoking since atleast the age of 20 4 years before he had me and no matter what damage it did to me and mainly my mum who never recovered and I never got to have a relation ship with her that a mum and son should have because of this shit and that's just the minor stuff I can tell you and on top of all that and a hell of a lot more I promise you that he still used it none stop always lying saying he's stopped for good this time or accusing me of not wanting him to quit and sabotaging, he atleast was smart enough to always try to hide it but I always found out.

So I might not know you mate and I never said I did but you don't know me either mate I've seen stuff ok stuff I can't talk about but stuff don't always assume youth is a sign of naiveity a lot of times it's the latter I wish you the best in whatever you do and like I said I'd your in chronic pain then that's fair enough if you need it and if that's the case I'm sorry I didn't point chronic pain out

And you talked about drug stigma?? Your damn right! This drug is the devil but your going on like it's marijuana like you think we should have fucking smack coffee shops or something mind you a smack café would be awesome

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

No he didn't but that's what it will lead to I used to believe the same as him that "if I just control my use I can use heroin inconsequently"

Ok. So SOME people will ALWAYS have a problematic relationship with whatever substances they use. And nothing is gonna change that; unfortunately that's down to basic human nature and the fact that human existence entails suffering.

But at least with legal and socially accepted drugs like for instance alcohol, we can acknowledge the differences.
We cannot do the same realistic and factual evaluation with opiate drugs, and ESPECIALLY heroin, because the general cultural narrative is so entirely set in stone.

Every novice user starts out already indoctrinated with the idea that he will inevitably become an addict as a given; and then somewhere down the line either die an untimely death or else pledge himself to swear off forever, like these are the only options.

Again, back to alcohol : collectively as a society we know there will always be a percentage of drunkards ; we also are aware MOST drinkers aren't, and will not become so, because we witness and interact with moderate drinkers on a daily basis. (Whereas moderate opiate users aren't supposed to even exist.)

.. And now for comparison please just
imagine how many MORE problem drinkers we would likely have, if we were to give every person who tried their first taste of beer or wine the idea that they'd better not EVER touch this stuff, OR ELSE they're on a one - way track to disastrous alcohol dependence.
If we admonished every casual drinker with an 'ohhhh just you wait, you might enjoy a pint at lunchtime now but mark my words you' ll INEVITABLY end up living under a bridge downing half a litre of vodka for breakfast -?! ' ...

LIKE WHO WOULD THIS HELP??

I can confidently say that a large part of me developing an addiction in the first place was DIRECTLY due to my belief that this was my pre - programmed fate.
And that effect isn't limited to those who from the first take fear those alleged near - supernatural 'powers' of the drug that will 'make' you an addict.
The same is true for those who'll say, 'oh yeah I used to kid myself, I thought I could control it'.

That's the EXACT same mindset as thinking 'this will MAKE me addicted', only from another angle.
It implies that you think there is something outside of yourself to BE 'controlled' in the first place. Once you start seeing a lifeless chemical as some sort of entity in its own right, an actual adversary that can overpower you and against whom most people are bound to lose, then yeah you're only gonna go one way I'm afraid. Oh the surprise.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

it heats up your brain and makes it into a slury

... Please tell me you DIDN'T just actually fucking say that. 'it heats up your brain and makes it into a slurry' -?? ...

... I just bloody can't.
I was absolutely prepared to talk to you despite our differences, but if you're seriously proposing something THIS insanely ridiculous, you can kindly fuck off right back to the Middle Ages where that kind of thinking belongs.

 

[Ganjcat]

Ok. So SOME people will ALWAYS have a problematic relationship with whatever substances they use. And nothing is gonna change that; unfortunately that's down to basic human nature and the fact that human existence entails suffering.

But at least with legal and socially accepted drugs like for instance alcohol, we can acknowledge the differences.
We cannot do the same realistic and factual evaluation with opiate drugs, and ESPECIALLY heroin, because the general cultural narrative is so entirely set in stone.

Every novice user starts out already indoctrinated with the idea that he will inevitably become an addict as a given; and then somewhere down the line either die an untimely death or else pledge himself to swear off forever, like these are the only options.

Again, back to alcohol : collectively as a society we know there will always be a percentage of drunkards ; we also are aware MOST drinkers aren't, and will not become so, because we witness and interact with moderate drinkers on a daily basis. (Whereas moderate opiate users aren't supposed to even exist.)

.. And now for comparison please just
imagine how many MORE problem drinkers we would likely have, if we were to give every person who tried their first taste of beer or wine the idea that they'd better not EVER touch this stuff, OR ELSE they're on a one - way track to disastrous alcohol dependence.
If we admonished every casual drinker with an 'ohhhh just you wait, you might enjoy a pint at lunchtime now but mark my words you' ll INEVITABLY end up living under a bridge downing half a litre of vodka for breakfast -?! ' ...

LIKE WHO WOULD THIS HELP??

I can confidently say that a large part of me developing an addiction in the first place was DIRECTLY due to my belief that this was my pre - programmed fate.
And that effect isn't limited to those who from the first take fear those alleged near - supernatural 'powers' of the drug that will 'make' you an addict.
The same is true for those who'll say, 'oh yeah I used to kid myself, I thought I could control it'.

That's the EXACT same mindset as thinking 'this will MAKE me addicted', only from another angle.
It implies that you think there is something outside of yourself to BE 'controlled' in the first place. Once you start seeing a lifeless chemical as some sort of entity in its own right, an actual adversary that can overpower you and against whom pmost people are bound to lose, then yeah you're only gonna go one way I'm afraid. Oh the surprise.

Look mate I shouldn't of said my opinion or got involved I'm obviously only allowed to agree with you two or I'm in the wrong I had respect for you before this but your just going to far and to personal

You do realise this is a forum? You do realise what a forum is?? So please come back to me when you and your mate have grown up

 

[Ganjcat]

Ok. So SOME people will ALWAYS have a problematic relationship with whatever substances they use. And nothing is gonna change that; unfortunately that's down to basic human nature and the fact that human existence entails suffering.

But at least with legal and socially accepted drugs like for instance alcohol, we can acknowledge the differences.
We cannot do the same realistic and factual evaluation with opiate drugs, and ESPECIALLY heroin, because the general cultural narrative is so entirely set in stone.

Every novice user starts out already indoctrinated with the idea that he will inevitably become an addict as a given; and then somewhere down the line either die an untimely death or else pledge himself to swear off forever, like these are the only options.

Again, back to alcohol : collectively as a society we know there will always be a percentage of drunkards ; we also are aware MOST drinkers aren't, and will not become so, because we witness and interact with moderate drinkers on a daily basis. (Whereas moderate opiate users aren't supposed to even exist.)

.. And now for comparison please just
imagine how many MORE problem drinkers we would likely have, if we were to give every person who tried their first taste of beer or wine the idea that they'd better not EVER touch this stuff, OR ELSE they're on a one - way track to disastrous alcohol dependence.
If we admonished every casual drinker with an 'ohhhh just you wait, you might enjoy a pint at lunchtime now but mark my words you' ll INEVITABLY end up living under a bridge downing half a litre of vodka for breakfast -?! ' ...

LIKE WHO WOULD THIS HELP??

I can confidently say that a large part of me developing an addiction in the first place was DIRECTLY due to my belief that this was my pre - programmed fate.
And that effect isn't limited to those who from the first take fear those alleged near - supernatural 'powers' of the drug that will 'make' you an addict.
The same is true for those who'll say, 'oh yeah I used to kid myself, I thought I could control it'.

That's the EXACT same mindset as thinking 'this will MAKE me addicted', only from another angle.
It implies that you think there is something outside of yourself to BE 'controlled' in the first place. Once you start seeing a lifeless chemical as some sort of entity in its own right, an actual adversary that can overpower you and against whom most people are bound to lose, then yeah you're only gonna go one way I'm afraid. Oh the surprise.

... Please tell me you DIDN'T just actually fucking say that. 'it heats up your brain and makes it into a slurry' -?? ...

... I just bloody can't.
I was absolutely prepared to talk to you despite our differences, but if you're seriously proposing something THIS insanely ridiculous, you can kindly fuck off right back to the Middle Ages where that kind of thinking belongs.

Paragraphs and paragraphs of junky denial seen it all my life

 

[NapalonyMurzyn]

There is just no point in talking with you.

 

[NapalonyMurzyn]

You can find a video somwhere where they dissect body of a cancer patient, and when they open the head brain just flows out.

 

[Ganjcat]

You can find a video somwhere where they dissect body of a cancer patient, and when they open the head brain just flows out.

Okay.. what they had real bad brain cancer shit that's a disturbing image bro

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

I appreciate anyone else's take on this matter but I have my own.

Yes, during the time of my major game-playing with opioids I truly benefitted. They liked me and I liked them, lol. My tolerance stayed so low for years too.. so it took a long time before they decided it was time for me to pay.

I struggled with depression so much when I was younger, and mostly ahedonia when I was not depressed. I've been around my parents constantly screaming at one another since the dawn of time. I must've been 4 when I can recall how bad their fights were. I only say this because I truly struggled with those fights becoming the voices in my head even when I was not around them. Opioids blasted those "voices" out of the water. I felt so calm and collected and engaged with life (which people would describe opiates to do fantastically yet in the opposite direction). Opioids are known as a lonely drug and hermit-like. Maybe that's true for most in the long run. However, for 4 years I loved being around people. Of course I like that without the drugs, but I had never chatted with strangers and had such a blast as when I was elevated from the cute little colored pills that ruin your life in the best way possible.

They gave me energy better than coffee or any stimulant I've known, blasted depression and self-critical voices somewhere else not to be seen for the day, made me social and gave me that "I love life" feeling any time of day. Was not long before that was all day everyday.. and then we know the rest. I benefited for 5 years and then only suffered for 2 months at the end on the high. The high began to feel just like the low, actually. I truly cannot say, but I do know that the way they carried me throughout those 5 years I never would have realized many aspects of myself that allow me to now be happier off opioids completely. I am grateful for them granting me the ability to experience what real happiness should feel like, even if it was fake. I took so many things for granted prior to discovering the good parts of opioids. I am one of the few people to ever state that with my own life they were mostly an angel. I'm sure that I suffered without realizing it along the way of those 5 years.. but who cares if you can't feel that until the last 2 months lol. Everyone has their own story and opinion. I know objectively though, I never would have been able to conquer my old demons had oxy/percocet not been introduced to me. Simply, the cost is just too difficult to address--along with how I would be now without them. Maybe even way better you know? Whatever, I had a blast on them for so long. Good times and I will never want to take them back. I am one of the people to believe that "everything happens for a reason" and I do see them as a good "thing." Meeting them helped me get past a very dark portion of my life because when I was younger, there is no way I could have addressed the voices in my head with maturity or approach them while everything else happening in my life was.. Percocet for prime minister.

 

[Opal35]

"Opioids are not a sustainable anti anxiety drug to take the stress off after a hard day at work"

Of course not. We are talking about using them for mental health issues. Everyone has some degree of anxiety or depression that they go through, but that is different than actual clinical anxiety & depression disorders. Stress from a hard day at work is not the same thing as living with chronic anxiety/depression.


So you'd prefer people lived in misery than take a drug that might make them feel better?

"The immediately result in more stress the next day or two when they are out of your system. Causing your to take more vacsuse you feel shittier than when you started. And everyone that has done opioids for a long time knows how it goes from there."

This is not true of all opioids. And is no different than some one who's antidepressant or benzo has warn off the next day. So I find this point rather null.
Hell, your blood pressure meds wearing off the next morning will lead to the same thing. In fact, I use to kick ass at physical labor when I took my dose of my opioid before work. The only thing that ever made it NOT sustainable was running out and not being able to get anymore.. Which would not happen if it were legal.


I think the only person in denial is yourself, about the potential for opiates to have mental health benefits.
Just because your experience wasn't positive, doesn't mean you should go around generalizing it for everyone.

In fact, since your name is "Ganjcat", I'd argue cannabis (which I love just as much) can be more harmful to your mental health & lungs than opioids.
But I bet you'll be "in denial" about that one. I love the "weed good, opiates bad" crowd, as they're always in denial about the potential risks cannabis can have on growing brains, memory retention, not to mention inhaling combusting plant matter is generally never a great idea.

So no, I'm not in denial. As much as I love cannabis and advocate for it to be legal, I still don't sugar coat it and act like cannabis is the "cure all" and "totally harmless", but do you?


Opioids have never "ruined my life", but prohibition sure has!

Interesting. So you've never had to increase your dose due to tolerance? I love opiates but the habit is not easily sustainable due to the escalation of how much you need to feel anything. This alone shows me that they are unsuitable as a long term medication.

 

[NapalonyMurzyn]

Interesting. So you've never had to increase your dose due to tolerance? I love opiates but the habit is not easily sustainable due to the escalation of how much you need to feel anything. This alone shows me that they are unsuitable as a long term medication.

Its just an another addict denial, nothing makes sense.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Interesting. So you've never had to increase your dose due to tolerance? I love opiates but the habit is not easily sustainable due to the escalation of how much you need to feel anything. This alone shows me that they are unsuitable as a long term medication.

Of course I needed to escalate my doses.....to get high.

With tramadol, I knew there were major seizure risks in higher dosages, so I never went past 400mg very often. Which makes it self-limiting.
But even after the initial euphoria was gone, tramadol still made me feel energized, calmer and in a better mood for weeks after daily use.

And with heroin, if it was good, raw rock.. I often dosed (intranasally, never IV) in the morning & would be good until afternoon/early evening, where I would dose again & then possibly dose once more when I settled down in the evening (that's if I didn't need a nap after those first 2 doses). And then usually a good 6-10 hours of sleep was long enough for me to reset, so that my following doses the next morning were still effective.

By effective, I mean antidepressant, mood-lifting, energizing. Not nod land.
Of course when I did feel like getting a "buzz" or nodding, I would increase the dosage a little, but in my perspective, so what? Humans can handle pretty heft doses of opioids if they have a tolerance. Not saying they should, but I had the ability to adjust my doses accordingly, especially since my goal was mostly for the aforementioned affects, rather than passing out.

It was unsustainable for me because you have to go through some one who may or may not answer your call or come through that day. Which would be different if people didn't need to get it from shady people.

Now I use buprenorphine, which we all know, increasing the dosage isn't going to do a whole lot more than lower doses anyway, but it's still a decent antidepressant. It helped me quit drinking alcohol. Haven't had a drink in 5 years and also eliminated any of my self harming behavior and suicidal thoughts I use to have. I'd say that's pretty damn impressive.

And these other two moron's who know nothing but spewing insults and myths would fair better on some government propaganda website and not here on Bluelight.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I appreciate anyone else's take on this matter but I have my own.

Yes, during the time of my major game-playing with opioids I truly benefitted. They liked me and I liked them, lol. My tolerance stayed so low for years too.. so it took a long time before they decided it was time for me to pay.

I struggled with depression so much when I was younger, and mostly ahedonia when I was not depressed. I've been around my parents constantly screaming at one another since the dawn of time. I must've been 4 when I can recall how bad their fights were. I only say this because I truly struggled with those fights becoming the voices in my head even when I was not around them. Opioids blasted those "voices" out of the water. I felt so calm and collected and engaged with life (which people would describe opiates to do fantastically yet in the opposite direction). Opioids are known as a lonely drug and hermit-like. Maybe that's true for most in the long run. However, for 4 years I loved being around people. Of course I like that without the drugs, but I had never chatted with strangers and had such a blast as when I was elevated from the cute little colored pills that ruin your life in the best way possible.

They gave me energy better than coffee or any stimulant I've known, blasted depression and self-critical voices somewhere else not to be seen for the day, made me social and gave me that "I love life" feeling any time of day. Was not long before that was all day everyday.. and then we know the rest. I benefited for 5 years and then only suffered for 2 months at the end on the high. The high began to feel just like the low, actually. I truly cannot say, but I do know that the way they carried me throughout those 5 years I never would have realized many aspects of myself that allow me to now be happier off opioids completely. I am grateful for them granting me the ability to experience what real happiness should feel like, even if it was fake. I took so many things for granted prior to discovering the good parts of opioids. I am one of the few people to ever state that with my own life they were mostly an angel. I'm sure that I suffered without realizing it along the way of those 5 years.. but who cares if you can't feel that until the last 2 months lol. Everyone has their own story and opinion. I know objectively though, I never would have been able to conquer my old demons had oxy/percocet not been introduced to me. Simply, the cost is just too difficult to address--along with how I would be now without them. Maybe even way better you know? Whatever, I had a blast on them for so long. Good times and I will never want to take them back. I am one of the people to believe that "everything happens for a reason" and I do see them as a good "thing." Meeting them helped me get past a very dark portion of my life because when I was younger, there is no way I could have addressed the voices in my head with maturity or approach them while everything else happening in my life was.. Percocet for prime minister.

I appreciate and respect your experience!

I struggled with treatment resistant depression for a long time as well. Anhedonia, suicidal, low energy, you name it. Tried so many SSRI's and antipsychotics and found they robbed me of my true self and took away what little creativity and inspiration I did have.

I completely understand your last part. I'm afraid, if I had not found opioids in my early days, I may not have lived to tell much about it.
They also had the benefit of canceling out any desire or cravings for alcohol (a drug that already landed me in a ditch and many hospitals long before I even discovered opioids) and they still have this benefit (even if they have lost their effectiveness). Which is great for me, considering I just lost my oldest sister to alcohol back in September of last year.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

You know mostly I'm just disappointed in how you have chosen to respond, you seemed like a smart and steady person who would recognise when someone is just giving them some advice you say your twice my age but you don't sound it there at all and your age means nothing my dad still smoked this shit in his late fifthties he had been smoking since atleast the age of 20 4 years before he had me and no matter what damage it did to me and mainly my mum who never recovered and I never got to have a relation ship with her that a mum and son should have because of this shit and that's just the minor stuff I can tell you and on top of all that and a hell of a lot more I promise you that he still used it none stop always lying saying he's stopped for good this time or accusing me of not wanting him to quit and sabotaging, he atleast was smart enough to always try to hide it but I always found out.

So I might not know you mate and I never said I did but you don't know me either mate I've seen stuff ok stuff I can't talk about but stuff don't always assume youth is a sign of naiveity a lot of times it's the latter I wish you the best in whatever you do and like I said I'd your in chronic pain then that's fair enough if you need it and if that's the case I'm sorry I didn't point chronic pain out

And you talked about drug stigma?? Your damn right! This drug is the devil but your going on like it's marijuana like you think we should have fucking smack coffee shops or something mind you a smack café would be awesome

Lmao, oh YOU'RE disappointed in how I CHOSE to respond? Yeah alright buddy. I wouldn't have had to respond to you if you hadn't of been a dick in the first place.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

... Please tell me you DIDN'T just actually fucking say that. 'it heats up your brain and makes it into a slurry' -?? ...

... I just bloody can't.
I was absolutely prepared to talk to you despite our differences, but if you're seriously proposing something THIS insanely ridiculous, you can kindly fuck off right back to the Middle Ages where that kind of thinking belongs.

Lol It's not worth it to even bother with people pushing propaganda like that. It's either complete ignorance or somebody needs to get this guy a job shilling real quick.

Ironically, he does appear to have sh*t for brains, so he must be speaking through experience. haha

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

You can find a video somwhere where they dissect body of a cancer patient, and when they open the head brain just flows out.

Yes, I grant that's disturbing ; but you are talking about fucking CANCER of the brain, which is a totally unrelated matter. There isn't any drug on the fucking planet that gives you brain cancer.
.. Plus I know of no cancer that would LIQUEFY the brain; cancer causes abnormal cell growth, it doesn't turn tissues to slush; so I'm highly skeptical of the provenance of that video.

... You can pickle yourself in so much alcohol that you give yourself what's known as 'wet brain' where you end up with spongiform lesions and your cognitive function becomes severely impaired to the point of retardation ; but that's a different thing altogether.
And unlike alcohol which is a cell toxin, pure opiates do not have any physically damaging effects on ANY organ of the human body.
Get your facts straight for goodness ' sakes.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Look mate I shouldn't of said my opinion or got involved I'm obviously only allowed to agree with you two

Nobody bloody said that anywhere. Of course you can disagree with me but I can disagree back.

And I'm getting rather the opposite impression. I was trying to present a more nuanced perspective from my personal experience, and I don't get any reasoned arguments in return, much less convincing ones; instead just reflexive accusations of 'denial'. Which I might as well level at you since you refuse to even acknowledge any facts that go against the prevailing 'drugs are evil incarnate' doctrine.
Yes thank you I know what forums are for ; it's where you discuss things. What you're doing isn't discussion ; you're not engaging, instead just throwing tired platitudes around.

I was never in so - called denial about the fact that I had a massive heroin problem, neither at the time nor now in retrospect. But the reason I was using the way I was in the first place was a shit ton of other issues.
I decided to work out better ways of coping and to take responsibility for my actions. I refused to continue to subscribe to the insanely counter - productive notion that I was some hapless victim of my own behaviour.
If I had continued with those erroneous ideas I can pretty much guarantee I'd have carried on the way I was, and probably would be dead now.
But YOU seem determined to shout anyone down who dares to not stick to the fundamentally self - defeating victimhood script that the rehab industry keeps pushing.

but your just going to far and to personal

Please point out to me WHERE I got 'personal' with you or insulted you because for the life of me I can't find it.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Paragraphs and paragraphs of junky denial seen it all my life

Yes please also enlighten me by what logic somebody who is neither physically dependent nor psychologically reliant on the drug he uses, and whose life it doesn't interfere with, is still to be classified as a 'junkie'.

If someone used to have a big drinking problem, but now he 's happy just having a couple pints on a Saturday night, does that person still qualify as an alcoholic -?...
(oh and over half of former heavy drinkers don't in fact turn teetotal, but become moderate drinkers instead. So much for the formulaic 'either total lifelong abstinence or dependent hell' argument.)

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Yes, I grant that's disturbing ; but you are talking about fucking CANCER of the brain, which is a totally unrelated matter. There isn't any drug on the fucking planet that gives you brain cancer.

... You can pickle yourself in so much alcohol that you give yourself what's known as 'wet brain' where you end up with spongiform lesions and your cognitive function becomes severely impaired to the point of retardation ; but that's a different thing altogether.
And unlike alcohol which is a cell toxin, pure opiates do not have any physically damaging effects on ANY organ of the human body.
Get your facts straight for goodness ' sakes.

First thing I thought of too was Wet Brain & Wernicke-korsakoff syndrome. Free legal alcohol for everyone!!

I use to live in Wisconsin, where as long as your parents were with you in the bar, you could drink even if you weren't of age. Everybody sure loves their alcohol in society!

Nobody bloody said that anywhere. Of course you can disagree with me but I can disagree back.

And I'm getting rather the opposite impression. I was trying to present a more nuanced perspective from my personal experience, and I don't get any reasoned arguments in return, much less convincing ones; instead just reflexive accusations of 'denial' (which is a pretty meaningless concept to start with, as that tends to be levelled at you as soon as you disagree in any way with the predominant narrative).
I was never in so - called denial about the fact that I had a massive heroin problem, neither at the time nor now in retrospect. But the reason I was using the way I was in the first place was a shit ton of other issues.
I decided to work out better ways of coping and to take responsibility for my actions. I refused to continue to subscribe to the insanely counter - productive notion that I was some hapless victim of my own behaviour.
If I had continued with those erroneous ideas I can pretty much guarantee I'd have carried on the way I was, and probably would be dead now. But YOU seem determined to shout anyone down who dares to not stick to the fundamentally self - defeating victimhood script that the rehab industry keeps pushing.

Please point out to me WHERE I got 'personal' with you or insulted you because for the life of me I can't find it.

Exactly!!!

I sure as hell am not in denial about anything! In fact I've been rather open about the entire topic & my experience. What ganjcat fails to see is that it's fine to disagree, but to tell others that their experience is invalid & "denial" and a "lie", not to mention the many insults is not just simply "disagreeing". I find it offensive and almost like an "attack".


Maybe if these people are so righteous, they should go out and protest against alcohol, which kills more people annually than any other drug, rather than trying to discredit my experience with a completely unrelated compound that doesn't even cause a quarter of the bodily harm that legal drugs like alcohol do.