Dallas "cheese"

[Kenaz]

I'm hard at work on my book, and I wanted to talk a bit about the Dallas "cheese" phenomenon. (I've already got a chapter on DJ Screw and Houston syrup-sipping). Has anyone here snorted cheese and could you provide some insights into the effects thereof?

One thing I've noticed is the many sage announcements from law enforcement that cheese was an effort by "pushers" to lure children into a life of heroin addiction. In fact, I'm guessing that most of the "pushers" are high school students or recent grads who sell to their friends, who sell to their friends, etc. -- not some shadowy figures sitting around in a boardroom saying "Let's come up with something the kids won't be able to resist!" (Of course, this is a common narrative of the drug war: shady characters lurking in the playground to Corrupt The Children).

I'm also unclear as to whether Dallas "cheese" is similar to Baltimore's "scramble," which also appears to be a mixture of heroin and cold medicine but which appears to have a slightly older fan base. Cheese appears to be primarily popular with kids: once they get out of school, they cut the cheese (sorry) and either graduate to black tar or go on to other things.

 

[sdubz]

not sure what the whole cheese thing is about. i've had thoughts that it's just admittidly cut up dope, that turned people on and killed some off. the name lures, sure. but 'scramble' can be cut with anything. i've had dope that probably had got knows what in it, mixing bags is the worst @ times. you just gotta watch your back and know your stuff, your smells, and always test.

 

[Kenaz]

not sure what the whole cheese thing is about. i've had thoughts that it's just admittidly cut up dope, that turned people on and killed some off. the name lures, sure. but 'scramble' can be cut with anything. i've had dope that probably had got knows what in it, mixing bags is the worst @ times. you just gotta watch your back and know your stuff, your smells, and always test.

Cheese is a mixture of black tar heroin and crushed Tylenol PM tablets. The tar is dissolved in water, then the crushed tablets are added. The final product is called "cheese" because it resembles grated Parmesan cheese. The diphenhydramine in Tylenol PM potentiates the heroin, making it pack a bigger punch than one might expect from the low heroin percentage (typically 3% to 10%). At first it was popular primarily among Hispanic students but then some white kids started snorting it as well, and yes, a few ended up dying.

 

[OntarioGuy]

They should use benadryl Tablets instead of Tylenol PM,If they want to cut it with Diphenhydramine

 

[Kenaz]

They should use benadryl Tablets instead of Tylenol PM,If they want to cut it with Diphenhydramine

I don't make the stuff, and I have no idea why they chose to use Tylenol PM or other cold meds. I suspect that an overly high percentage of benadryl would make the stuff unpleasantly sedating. Still, I can't imagine that snorting lines of 90% APAP could be anything but unpleasant.

 

[OntarioGuy]

^^^^I know,I cant even imagine people buying this stuff,and it becoming their DOC.and cutting every gram with a 25 mg tablet or so wouldn't be to bad.

 

[Kenaz]

^^^^I know,I cant even imagine people buying this stuff,and it becoming their DOC.and cutting every gram with a 25 mg tablet or so wouldn't be to bad.

We're talking more like cutting every gram with 5-10+ grams of cough medicine.

Keep in mind that most of the people using cheese are high school students with little drug experience. I can't imagine anyone with access to better drugs would use this stuff.

 

[Unknown]

I'm also unclear as to whether Dallas "cheese" is similar to Baltimore's "scramble," which also appears to be a mixture of heroin and cold medicine but which appears to have a slightly older fan base.

OD to N&SA Drug Discussion

 

[OlCapone]

I've never used it personally, but I was born and raised in Houston Tx and spent another part of my life (6 years) in North Tx area which is the Dallas area, Cheese was a phenomenon that started with the young age group or at least this is where it started to notice as a problem, yes kids did die.
Cheese was exactly what some are saying about it was used by dealers to lure in a totally different demographic and to add more money coming in. I would not consider it anything like the east coast (balt.) scramble. East coast and the south are two different animals but I guess could be similar. Ultimately, the H that is in cheese was first tar and then cut down and cut down and made into a powder that is then mixed with LARGE AMOUNTS of Tylonel PM, its then placed into a capsule.
I would love to hear your info. on the Screw, codeine and Houston stuff, because that is the culture that I know the best as it is a HUGE thing in that area. A lot of these Houston guys have sadly died and a lot are still around but the one thing that is common is they all were friends and most they all grew up together. Sipping syrup was always around, even at one time in the late 80's and early 90's it was very CHEAP! Alas, it is not now. But enough on the tangent Im just familiar with the whole "scenes" you spoke of.

 

[mvd]

Cheese actually exists?

I figured it was some made-up bullshit like rainbow parties, Satanic D&D rituals or Jesus Christ.

 

[chrisinabox]

I'm from Dallas and have known/know many people that use "cheese" heroin. most of them are very ignorant. i tried it myself a few times to see what the appeal was and , trust me, there is no appeal. unless you have like no tolerance to opiates, you won't even feel anything except maybe the diphenhydramine lol. some ppl use stuff like simply sleep/benadryl/dormin rather than tylenol pm.
also, most of the ppl that died from this stuff also had other drugs like methamphetamine, cocaine, alcohol, etc.. in their system at the same time so theres a good chance this 1-5% heroin was not the culprit, but of course if the police see those drugs in their system, they are gonna blame the heroin first and foremost everytime.
most of the ppl doing this are high school kids or just stupid kids and some don't know any better, which i understand but others act all arrogant and try to act like they get badass shit and even SHOOT the heroin/APAP mixture and brag about it. they try to act like their cheese is better than tar, which is 100% bullshit. tar is 1000 times better than this shit. actually, cheese IS tar, just with a pill added to make it snortable, so how can cheese be better than tar? obvious answer, IT CANT!!
sorry for the rant, this cheese bullshit pisses me off and gives Dallas a bad name, which it doesn't deserve.

p.s. cheese heroin is nothing like scramble from b-more. scramble is actually half way decent.

 

[Kenaz]

I've never used it personally, but I was born and raised in Houston Tx and spent another part of my life (6 years) in North Tx area which is the Dallas area, Cheese was a phenomenon that started with the young age group or at least this is where it started to notice as a problem, yes kids did die.
Cheese was exactly what some are saying about it was used by dealers to lure in a totally different demographic and to add more money coming in. I would not consider it anything like the east coast (balt.) scramble. East coast and the south are two different animals but I guess could be similar. Ultimately, the H that is in cheese was first tar and then cut down and cut down and made into a powder that is then mixed with LARGE AMOUNTS of Tylonel PM, its then placed into a capsule.
I would love to hear your info. on the Screw, codeine and Houston stuff, because that is the culture that I know the best as it is a HUGE thing in that area. A lot of these Houston guys have sadly died and a lot are still around but the one thing that is common is they all were friends and most they all grew up together. Sipping syrup was always around, even at one time in the late 80's and early 90's it was very CHEAP! Alas, it is not now. But enough on the tangent Im just familiar with the whole "scenes" you spoke of.

I really enjoyed writing the chapter on DJ Screw and the SUC -- and I love a lot of the Chopped n Screwed mixes. Basically, codeine and promethazine is a lower voltage version of "Fours and Doors" (codeine and glutethimide): the promethazine potentiates the codeine and increases its metabolism to morphine. And, as you said, it became a big part of the Houston scene: a fair percentage of Houston rap references "chunking up a deuce," "lean in my cup," "purple stuff," etc.

Pimp-C , had been diagnosed with sleep apnea: I believe promethazine is contraindicated in people with that condition. And Big Moe was, well, Big: a 400+ pound man can die of a heart attack without codeine in his system. DJ Screw was also overweight, and died in his studio bathroom. Given the way codeine plugs up the GI tract, I suspect he may have actually died of a heart attack caused by straining at stool. (This is the reason a lot of people die on the toilet, btw). So it's misleading to say they "overdosed on codeine," although it certainly didn't help.

I've never tried sizzurp but can definitely see where it would be a pleasant, low-key drug for an evening of chilling with some friends and a few blunts.

 

[Kenaz]

also, most of the ppl that died from this stuff also had other drugs like methamphetamine, cocaine, alcohol, etc.. in their system at the same time so theres a good chance this 1-5% heroin was not the culprit, but of course if the police see those drugs in their system, they are gonna blame the heroin first and foremost everytime.

That's frequently the case with "heroin overdoses:" people combine their junk with booze, benzos or other drugs which potentiate things. (And ISTR hearing IV users talk about shooting a bit of diphenhydramine with their dope because it makes the high better ... so I'd imagine there's some syncretism between the Tylenol PM and what little heroin there is in the mix.

Apparently benzos are pretty widely abused in Dallas high schools (and presumably others). An opiate-naive 16-year old who takes a couple bars of Xanax and tops it off with a dime of cheese, washed down with a couple drinks from Dad's liquor cabinet could wind up in a world of hurt. And, as you said, the heroin would be blamed as the culprit.

 

[CharlesThe1337]

And, as you said, it became a big part of the Houston scene: a fair percentage of Houston rap references "chunking up a deuce," "lean in my cup," "purple stuff," etc.

Not to be an ass or anything, after all I am a Greenlighter but I think chunking up a deuce was refering to like, the hand thing. Like the peace sign. But on the subject of deuces, I'm relativley familiar with lean. In Austin it's hard to come by but pints still make their way around and shit- way too overpriced as far as I'm concerned (as of lately). Especially if you are opiod-tolerant codiene doesn't do much to you but I do find that the Promethazine compliments it well. Can't say much about cheese, except I've herd from many of my friends in the Dallas area saying a bunch of stupid white kids got ahold of it and died. Specifically in Plano there is a large problem (rich, overprivileged kids generally) but I think it has sort of toned down a bit since it really hit with full force. What kind of book are you writing? I'm so down with the SUC, if you have any questions or anything like that feel free to PM me man.

 

[Kenaz]

Not to be an ass or anything, after all I am a Greenlighter but I think chunking up a deuce was refering to like, the hand thing. Like the peace sign. But on the subject of deuces, I'm relativley familiar with lean. In Austin it's hard to come by but pints still make their way around and shit- way too overpriced as far as I'm concerned (as of lately). Especially if you are opiod-tolerant codiene doesn't do much to you but I do find that the Promethazine compliments it well. Can't say much about cheese, except I've herd from many of my friends in the Dallas area saying a bunch of stupid white kids got ahold of it and died. Specifically in Plano there is a large problem (rich, overprivileged kids generally) but I think it has sort of toned down a bit since it really hit with full force. What kind of book are you writing? I'm so down with the SUC, if you have any questions or anything like that feel free to PM me man.

Thanks for the correction re "chunking up a deuce." One source (don't remember it offhand: I'd have to look at the footnotes to find it) said "chunking up a deuce" was pouring 2 oz. of syrup into your soda, then tossing in some "chunks" (Jolly Ranchers). But your explanation makes sense as well.

The working title of the book is Papaver somniferum: The Most Dangerous Ally. After seeing books on ayahuasca, salvia, etc. I decided we need a book on one of the most widely used mind-altering plants of all. It's been great fun writing it, especially the research .

(I'm not dedicated enough to snort cheese, though. Neither have I tried IV "kompot" -- an Eastern European delicacy which is essentially acetylized poppy tea prepared for injection. I may be willing to use drugs in the name of scholarship, but I have my standards).

 

[CharlesThe1337]

Thanks for the correction re "chunking up a deuce." One source (don't remember it offhand: I'd have to look at the footnotes to find it) said "chunking up a deuce" was pouring 2 oz. of syrup into your soda, then tossing in some "chunks" (Jolly Ranchers). But your explanation makes sense as well.

The working title of the book is Papaver somniferum: The Most Dangerous Ally. After seeing books on ayahuasca, salvia, etc. I decided we need a book on one of the most widely used mind-altering plants of all. It's been great fun writing it, especially the research .

(I'm not dedicated enough to snort cheese, though. Neither have I tried IV "kompot" -- an Eastern European delicacy which is essentially acetylized poppy tea prepared for injection. I may be willing to use drugs in the name of scholarship, but I have my standards).

Yeah, its just that the following lyrics don't make sense I guess. Talking about north and south or something if I remember correctly. Thats interesting man, I thought you were focusing more on like the Screw culture. I didn't realize that you were focusing more widely on all sorts of opiods. Well props to you man for not forgetting the south! I wish you the best of luck on your book, I'll be interested to see how it turns out!

 

[gardenvariety]

dormin is mostly used. incredibly water-soluble. getting cut junk is always bad. i've always heard cheeze used to describe tar cut and made into a powder. so...if the tar is incredible, the cheeze wouldnt be so bad. but...i always hit that tar baby. dallas does get a bad rap for this "cheeze" bullshit. but we gotz that good shit, trrruusssssssst me. from laredo to austin to dallas, TX H can be gnar strong.

 

[Roger&Me]

^For sure, I've had some bomb tar (like I saw it cut off of a GIANT hard-as-shit brick with a hunting knife kinda strong). Not quite up to the level of some of the good northeastern dope, but still exceptionally nice. (I'm in the dallas area.)

As for this cheese bullshit, I've never seen it. Not even once. And if I did see it, I wouldn't buy it anyways. :D Personally I kinda think the media blew it way out of proportion.

 

[chrisinabox]

dormin is mostly used. incredibly water-soluble. getting cut junk is always bad. i've always heard cheeze used to describe tar cut and made into a powder. so...if the tar is incredible, the cheeze wouldnt be so bad. but...i always hit that tar baby. dallas does get a bad rap for this "cheeze" bullshit. but we gotz that good shit, trrruusssssssst me. from laredo to austin to dallas, TX H can be gnar strong.

the reason the cheese is shitty is because they take good/bad tar and cut it with god knows what pill, usually tylenol or diph, and use such big amounts that there is very little actual heroin in there, like less than 5%. which makes it shitty as hell.

 

[TwisteTexan]

HELL YEAH, good to see some real representation of the "screw" culture.
I grew up with that shit... DJ Screw Swisha House Zro Big Moe, and syrup was still plentiful. Now all the rookies try to sip deuces and get nowhere... I remember sipping 4's banging A.B.N. (Z-ro and Trae) as some of my best times...
R.I.P. Dj Screw...