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4-HO-MET Solubility & Stability

Transform

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Question 1
Hello Bluelight :D

I got 1gr of 4-HO-MET 98.8 % powder Grad Lab.

I would know if it's possible to make vial of 4-HO-MET for dosing and storing the chemical ?

I would know if 4-HO-MET is soluble in 40 % vodka alcohol for example or if I needed a stronger alcohol ? I want to store them for a good time.

Because a few times ago SWIM got about 300mg of 4-HO-MET in a baggie but since 6 months the quality of the chemicals decrease and lost potency. For exemple his dosage was 16mg for a trip and now with his 6 months old batch he needs 30mg or more to get into the experience.

SWIM don't have glass vial but he had some "plastic vial" like this => http://www.shayanashop.com/Product_Images/big/Joint_tubes_642.jpg

He will put 15mg of 4-HO-MET in this vial :)

Is this possible ?

Many thanks and my apologize for my bad english :)

______________________________________________________________________

Question 2

Hello Bluelight :)

I'm a bit intrigued :D SWIM was going to buy some 4-HO-MET again from a trusted source but he saw 2 things but he don't understand what's the difference between :

4-HO-MET 98,8 % Fumarate
4-HO-MET 98,8 % Hcl

SWIM don't know which one to took :p

Is there a more stable chemical between the 2 ? More toxic ? Less toxic ? More potent ? Less potent ?

If a nice person can reply to my "silly" question it would be greatly appreciated :)

Many thanks and my bad for my english ;D

I searched over the board but can't find really what i want :\

test post
 
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BodhiSvaha33

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I'm not sure about 4-HO-MET specifically, but 4-substituted tryptamines in general tend to degrade when stored in solution. He'd be better off just storing it in powder form, in a vial in the freezer. Since it's dry, plastic should be fine -- definitely don't store solutions in plastic vials for extended periods of time, or undesirable stuff will leach into it.
 

HofmannBlotter

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Are you sure ? Because a friend of mine put his 4-AcO-DMT in alcohol vial for months and it's still good :(

Anyone have more informations about the BodhiSvaha33 reply ?

Thank you :)
 

Incunabula

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Hello Bluelight :)

I'm a bit intrigued :D SWIM was going to buy some 4-HO-MET again from a trusted source but he saw 2 things but he don't understand what's the difference between :

4-HO-MET 98,8 % Fumarate
4-HO-MET 98,8 % Hcl

SWIM don't know which one to took :p

Is there a more stable chemical between the 2 ? More toxic ? Less toxic ? More potent ? Less potent ?

If a nice person can reply to my "silly" question it would be greatly appreciated :)

Many thanks and my bad for my english ;D

I searched over the board but can't find really what i want :\

Fumarate is more stable, but less potent by weight, than the Hcl.

Toxicity is the same with both, very low :) (people have taken OD´s up to 150 mg and survived whith out any lasting damage)

if I were you I would take the funmarate, except if you are planning to take it all during the next year, then you should take the Hcl.
 

sekio

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I believe the fumarate is more stable and the HCl is slightly more potent by mass. The only difference is which acid is used to neutralize the basic amine in the tryptamine and form a water soluble salt. The fumarate is roughly 0.653x freebase, the HCl is 0.8x.
 

HofmannBlotter

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Many thanks ! Is the fumarate is alcohol soluble ? (for making 15mg vial dose btw) because i will travel to Egypt in 2 months and i needed to took some dose for my vacations trip ;D

Thank you again
 

deko

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Swim argh>

We dont SWIM here , we fly.
Swim offers no protection and just looks stupid.
 

HofmannBlotter

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Anyway :p It doesn't help me to my question buddy ;) Thanks to noticing me ! Well i don't care, 4-ho-met is unscheduled in my country
 

greenmeanies

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Both salts will be highly soluble in water. Insoluble in pure alcohol, but soluble in alcohol-water mix.
 

Solipsis

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^ Interesting.

I heard from someone that 4-HO-MPT fumarate is insoluble in water, it's not the freebase by accident since it appears acids have been tried. Are you sure about the solubility?

This info leads me to believe that fumarates are generally less soluble in water than the HCl salts (which should almost always dissolve), not sure if that is because HCl is a strong acid and fumaric acid is not...

The choice between the salts is tricky, if someone here has actual info in dissolving the fumarate then choose that. Otherwise perhaps pick the HCl and then store it very well in a freezer, with a dessicant and airtight.

By the way you cannot bring vials with liquids on an airplane these days so I hope that is not your way of transportation. You might want to stick your few crumbs of powder somewhere else. But we will not, I repeat: not, discuss 'contraband'.

__________________

Second post I made merged into this one:

Would you mind not creating a new thread for every single question you have? We have lots of threads already on many topics, they don't have to be absolutely identical to the topic your question is on. So I ask you to use the index and search function.

Thanks very very much! :)

I've commented on this issue already in another thread I think? Wait a minute.... edit: put two threads together

Are you sure ? Because a friend of mine put his 4-AcO-DMT in alcohol vial for months and it's still good :(

Anyone have more informations about the BodhiSvaha33 reply ?

Thank you :)

About the 4-AcO-DMT: 4-AcO tryptamines are generally significantly more stable than 4-HO tryptamines so that explains it.
 
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HofmannBlotter

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Thanks. Anyway i will pick the fumarate chemical. Then put some alcohol-tap water mix in a plastic vial, put in a sealed baggie and then in the fridge or a cool dark place :)

It will working ?

Thanks again Solipsis and my bad for the similar thread :x
 

Solipsis

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Are you talking about pure alcohol or aqueous alcohol in the form of distilled spirits a la vodka?

I assume it dissolves in alcohol but watch out with water. It may form a black product that may actually still be active. Personally I'd try using pure alcohol and even dry the alcohol over a dessicant like magnesium sulphate to get it anhydrous. Then hope the fumarate dissolves and seal the vial well.
 

TheAzo

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I wouldn't try storing any significant amount of 4-HO-MET in solution for long. Lemme throw a few mg's into a vial of water and a vial of vodka. I'll report back. 4-HO-MiPT turns brown within hours in water
 

HofmannBlotter

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Oh also i had a question but it's a bit off-thread.

Which colour 4-ho-met does look like because mine are slighly "orange-ish" powder and my mate had a more white-ish powder than me :O

So basically how 4-ho-met look like ? Why mine are orange-ish ?


Thanks
 

Solipsis

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It should look white or off-white although brief exposure to 'the elements' can make tryptamines like these grayish in little time. An orange tinge surely must be an impurity though. Who knows what kind of impurity though... some impurities are so strongly colored that even tiny traces can make an end-product a little colored. It is no measure of purity, only a sign that it's not pure. The deeper the color is the more probable it is that the purity is not good. But strongly colored impurities often show up in multiple batches while I have never heard something like this before with 4-HO-MET.

40% alcohol is not good like I said: it should be 100%. Any leftover water in there (in your case even as much as 60% ) will react with the 4-HO-MET. And yes it will turn brown or black colors (which in reality can be concentrated ochre color which in turn is similar to your 'orange-ish') but it doesn't have to be bad for your potency. It is reported that reacted 4-HO tryptamines can still work well, although you better hope there is no base in there because that WILL degrade it in a bad way.

Note though that if you decide to dissolve it in something like vodka and it turns weird colors that it will also probably smell terrible. You were talking about carrying the stuff along with you to places, well... foul smelling stuff will flag people off, you don't want that.
 

HofmannBlotter

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Whoah Solipsis what a great answer here ! :) So you said that 4-ho-met need to be white ? I don't know if my 4-ho-met is impure because it's labeled as : 4-HO-MET Fumarate 99,98% Grad Lab.


Well i don't tried my batch yet but i don't know what are the risk if i eat "impure" 4-ho-met :\

Also what do you mean by off-white ? I'm very sorry i can't understand this word, do you mean "beige" color ?

This is some pictures but saddenly the quality is not really good cause it's an old cam :

http://img860.imageshack.us/i/s5002814.jpg/
http://img94.imageshack.us/i/s5002812s.jpg/
 
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Solipsis

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Yes something in the direction of beige, or what might be called bone-color or eggshell.

It wouldn't surprise me at all though if 4-HO-MET itself in purified form is white - if it would be synthesized under inert atmosphere at all times and put through a big fat column to make it pure.

But it probably turns from white to off-white very fast when it is handled. In other words I think it degrades ever so slightly right after it is made.

Depending on the source (don't answer this :) ) I would make my own decision on if it is trustworthy material but in general I would not be to worried with slight colorations. There is also brown and purple DPT out there and other funky colored drugs that bother me a lot more.
You might want to try a small amount though (like 2 milligrams) and see if you detect any effect. Such a practice (sometimes called tests for allergy or idiosyncracy, but in most cases probably most effective for finding out if you don't have a DOX instead or something!) is always advisable with a new batch of powder.
 
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