butane said:Simply comparing the effects of plain 4-hydroxys and their 4-acetoxy counterparts should be a dead giveaway that they're more than just prodrugs.
A quick glance at my first post in this thread will show I agree with the consensous here about the full and independent activity of 4-AcO-DMT as 4-AcO-DMT. However, for the sake of fun quibbling allow me to play devil's advocate and say that the simple fact that the 4-AcOs and 4-hos are contrasted with one another is not sufficient to infer that the AcO is not a prodrug i.e. is not fully active on its own. The best, and only strong evidence of that is the immediate activity of the AcO via the IV route (the rest of the reasons for thinking that are mostly pragmatic, as there are a number of coincidences between independent reports of qualitative difference that are easier to explain if the AcO is fully active on its own, but this is hardly definitive.) The reason I say this is because the rate of absorbtion clearly affects the subjective experience of other drugs. Everyone agrees the experience of smoked or IVd DMT is distinct in QUALITY, not just "quantity," from even extremely high oral doses (who knows why exactly, but it is.) The reports that IM doses of DMT are far more comparable to oral doses than smoked or IVd doses indicates that the rate of absorption factors heavily in subjective qualitative experience independently of the presence of an MAOI. On this interpretation of the AcO as a prodrug, the qualitative differences--for example, that the AcOs are "smoother" than the hos--are a reflection purely of the slower absorption of the drug due to conversion time. Also, a prodrug is not necessarily completely inactive, only significantly less active than its "active" metabolite. So as devil's advocate I can also say that the AcO's small but not entirely insignificant independent activity in tandem with its slower rate of absorption is sufficient to explain the qualitative differences between it and the ho while maintaining that the AcO is still a prodrug.butane said:Simply comparing the effects of plain 4-hydroxys and their 4-acetoxy counterparts should be a dead giveaway that they're more than just prodrugs. It's entirely possible, even likely, that the acetoxy is metabolized to a hydroxy, as that is known to happen with heroin, but I would wager that most of it reaches the brain unchanged.