The Big & Dandy Natural vs. Chemical / Synthetic Psychedelics Thread

[Cpt.Caveman]

Welcome to The Main Natural vs. Chemical / Synthetic Psychedelics Thread

Relevant threads:

The Main Natural Psychedelics and Ethnobotanics Thread

Natural vs. Synthetic substances for spiritual enlightenment



Do you think there is a diffence in effect or deeper quality between compounds made in laboratories
and compounds derived from nature?
What about semi-synthetics, compounds derived from nature but tinkered with in labs?
And what about purified natural chemicals from extraction or synthesized, like pure psilocybin?


[original post:]

Typing a reply in another thread about HBWS made me come to the opinion that I much prefer natural trips (mushrooms, weed, etc.) as opposed to chemicals made from a lab (mda, lsd, 2cb, dxm if you can call it a trip).

For me the natural trips always seem to take a different hold of you as if it is almost natural to be in the state of mind and body for the few hours you are effected by it and the comedown of the trip feels smoother.

I find that LSD almost feels like a strenuous and forced mind change and the slow comedown leaves me feeling mentally drained. The effects of LSD, MDA and DXM I find have a "dirty" feel about them compared to say mushrooms.

I'm still yet to try a lot of the natural wonders such as salvia, mescaline, HBWS, morning glory seeds (are a few that I can remember) or could it just be my mind toying with me while I'm on the chemical drugs telling myself that I'm under the effect of a dirty chemical and shouldn't be polluting myself.

Sure enough, LSD is a great unique substance and can bring on huge personal and spiritual growth but I would always pick a mushroom trip over it anytime.

What do the rest of you psychonaughts think?

 

[ER0X]

I would agree. I still love taking chems though. I still have many more substances to try, but ultimatly I feel that yes, in the long run the natural ones provide the smoothest,safest, most profound trips. But there are man made ones that too good to ever give up aswell, I could live without LSD,E cuz I've had natural ones that feel just as good as both, better even. But I've grown real fond dissociative type highs. Nothing replicates the psychedelic effects of this class. OBEs, states of mind unlike anything. I think that maube Amanita might be good but I'm a little put off cuz last time I got some less than grade As and got severe negative physacle symptoms(literally gallons of sweat,chills,nuasea which later caused my to get a cold)but a complete absence of any sort of mind altering state. It really sucked. But Perhaps if I get grade A+ and heat/prepare it right it maybe what I've been looking for, who knows.

 

[Ultrapsyber]

I certainly love tripping, and I've enjoyed taking chemicals too...

I always find if I take pure MDMA the peak and the entire experience is very smooth and clean, and the comedown is not harsh... When I peak, it's a beautiful, powerful rush but without too many horrible jaw clenches and eye wobbles... Just an overall feeling of, well, ecstasy!

With pills though, it's more difficult to know exactly what's in a pill - even when tested it's likely to contain some other stuff... And I've had a more dirty peak and comedown and the slightly frustrating wobbles/clenches...

I find acid to be a dirty feeling when tripping (although I really enjoy it the one or two times I will do it in a year - I try to limit myself!) But the few times I've had shrooms, they've been a much more natural, clean trip...

So yeah, when we're talking about acid vs shrooms - although I enjoy both, I'd have to say I prefer mushies as the trip is more intense with regard to hallucinations... LSD is more a mind thing for me, not as visual as shrooms... And mushies seem more clean/cleansing as acid...

Still - me likes it all (in moderation

 

[theghostofbillhicks]

I've felt dirty off 'natural' stimulants such as ephedra but as for naturally occuring psychedelics, they certainly produce a smooth come down and feel less toxic on the body.

2-ci, mdma, ket etc. have all made me feel extremely chemically poisoned. LSD didn't however.

Given the choice between LSD and shrooms i would probably grab the acid.

 

[Acidfiend]

I think mushrooms are dirty and the trip always does nothing for me except remind me of how ugly and miserable everyone and everything is.

I'll take 2ce, lsd, dmt, or 5meoDMT from a lab over nature any day. Besides, the only differences between the two are completely subjective to your disposition...if you truly "believe" the trip of a natural substance is fundamentally "better" than that of a chemical, it will be. This is one of the lessons many people learn from psychedelics: your reality is what your mind tells you it is. What you are not realizing is that nature is simply a complex heirarchy of chemicals too, and there is no difference between the molecules designed in a lab and the molecules synthesized in nature. They all work on the exact same principles. Now when I injest drugs, I look at it from a purely pharmacutical perspective: do I want to consume a container of a drug that is both impure and unpredictable, or do I want to have a pure substance that is easily measurable and predictable? I love herb and salvia a lot (especially salvia), but if I could afford pure salvinorin-a I would take that over the plant material in an instant. The same goes for any drug.

As for the come down, I think it is totally relative to the substance and not its origin. Alcohol comes from nature and even a couple of margaritas will make me groggy the next day...whereas I can consume 10 mg of 2ce, trip out for a good 6-8 hours, and fall asleep with no problem and no "leftovers" in the morning.

 

[Cpt.Caveman]

You're probably quite right acidfriend but for me I feel as though the way a drug effects my body when it is natural seems as though it is not as much of a pollutant in my body while a synthesised drug is a chemical intervention on a natural structure so that when I'm under its effects it was a chemical that my body, in nature, was never intended to experience.

Quite right though, reality is what you make of it and my brain may well be telling me that I should feel as though man made chemicals are not as good for me as I would feel like I'm eating something inpure if I were to eat a cloned sheep grown from a test tube.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I don't think it matters. I've gotten just as much from synthetics as I have natural ones. And who knows which ones are natural? DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, d-lysergic acid amide, and others were first made in a lab and thought to be synthetics, and years later they were found in nature. So who really even knows what's natural in the first place?

 

[Salvia Smoker]

Shrooms make me think too much. I have even thought suicidal thoughts on 8 grams once. LSA was an alright buzz.. Kinda felt like I was slightly drunk, but trippin at the same time.

 

[Clockwise]

The only difference between plant material and (almost) pure chemical version of the active substace(s) in the plant is that you get a lot of non-pyschoactive material from the plant, that can mess your stomach up, or something like that. OTOH, synthetic mescaline, for example may not be the same as having the original cacti, but that may be only because there are more psychoactive compunds there than just mescaline, which could also be synthesized. If there aren't any, the qualitative difference has to be about imagination or some kind of psychosomatic reaction to non-psychoactive ingredients.

 

[eternalcrux]

I have found many of the synthetci chemical induced trips to be greater than several 'natural' counterparts..

ie 16mg 2c-i was extremely akin to 6inches of a san pedro cactus, although it seemed several times stronger...

But like MGS said, i dont think it actually matters if the chem is 'madmade' or has grown naturally.

 

[GrOwThSpUrT]

it`s all in your head, maybe you just like to think that you`re doing something "natural" but if that is the only thing you`re looking at, it might destroy any good feelings you might have with "chemically induced" trips. And it is definitely not a fact that "natural"things are safer or less harmful -- datura, alcohol, ephedrine and a lot more harmful substances are found in nature, so it`s actually pretty useless to say: I like natural trips better, perhaps you like SOME natural trips better, well, good for you, stick to those trips and let the other people enjoy what they want to enjoy. I LOVE mushrooms, don`t really like salvia, and loathe LSA, and they are all natural... I LOVE DXM, don`t really like 5-meo-amt, etc...

 

[azzazza !?]

they may have different spirits, just as naturals or synthetics also have different spirits amongst themselves; but i won't value one over the other because of which category it is in. ones own preconcieved mindset about this will almost exclusively determine ones evaluation regarding such a category.

 

[Skrilla]

I feel that yes, in the long run the natural ones provide the smoothest,safest, most profound trips

Why do people think that just because something is "natural" that it is safer? That is absolutely not true...

Whether a drug is natural or not has absolutely nothing to do with its safety - and thinking that something must be "safer" just because it is natural can be a huge mistake.

GrOwThSpUrT pretty much said it.

 

[zx13xz]

It's all in your head. I'm wondering if I gave you some non-active cactus and slipped some synthetic mescaline into it if you would be able to tell the difference? The only differences between synthetics and "natural" substances are what the impurities are. Sometimes the impurities are other active ingredients that we don't know about in terms of "natural" substances. DMT and GHB can be made either synthetically or ""naturally" and it's kind of hard to say which is better. Just incase you didn't know, atoms ARE natural, all synthetics are just made from "natural" atoms we had lying around.

 

[austior]

Nature cleverly designed the mushroom to manufacture psilocybin. Likewise, it cleverly designed us to manufacture methamphetamine, 5-meo-amt, DPT, and 2c-e.

So what's the difference? Only that the latter class of drugs was designed for the purpose of getting us high. I'll take the synthetics...

 

[Skrilla]

I'll take 'em all. It's the same thing, however it was made.

 

[Clockwise]

And to provoke a little, I think man-made chemicals are also natural because they're made by people, who are natural organisms. Kinda like mushrooms who 4-hydroxylate tryptamines with enzymes as opposed to chemists with instruments. In fact, the only chemicals I would call unnatural would be those that are results of impossible reactions

 

[acidkandy]

So many different indoles in one magic mushroom...
and only LSD in a tab !

hey clockwise, What about radioactive mushies ?

 

[theghostofbillhicks]

i think this whole discussion is slightly missing the point. The natural tryptamines/phens have been used since recorded history if we're to believe Mckenna Allegro et al. Of course if psilocybin/mescaline is created in a lab there is no difference in the chemical which adjusts our consciousness.

But the fact is that we are surer they aren't going to give us some god-awful physical problems because they've been tested a fair bit and perhaps some of us have even evolved sembiotically with these materials (mushrooms with the cow-herders, cacti with the native americans and aztec cultures, etc)

I can't say i feel the same security when researching 2c-i.

 

[Acidfiend]

perhaps some of us have even evolved sembiotically with these materials (mushrooms with the cow-herders, cacti with the native americans and aztec cultures, etc)

I seriously doubt that our ancestors consumed mushrooms and peyote on such a regular basis that it had an effect on our collective evolution.